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Greetings Once again fellow players..
Yesterday, my laptop took a hike and took my Wordpad army lists for my Guard with it. Since I have to remake my army lists I figure this would be a good time for all us Imperial Guard players to sit down and discuss current powerplays and ideas.

Right now Drop troops are hot when it comes to Lists... Personally I dont really like this way of play. Ive played guard for several years now and I just cant help myself when I design lists that are guard fluffy. (Aka Shoot shoot and shoot some more then Run away lol)

My last two army lists were 2000 Pts each and were as follows (roughly)
REG DOC: HWP
Skills and Drills: SharpShooters (on all HW teams)
Hq:
Jo with Power weapon
4 man command squad

At Squad x3 Lc
At Squad x3 Lc
FS Squad x3 Ac
FS Squad x3 Ac

Troop:
Command Squad
Jo with Power Weapon
x4 Guardsmen

x3 Inf Squads
HB/PG combo

Troop:
Command Squad
Jo with Power Weapon
x4 Guardsmen

X3 Inf Squads
HB/PG Combo

Heavy Support:

x2 Basilisk with IDF

x1 HWP
--x3 support Squads
FS Squad x3 Ac

I cant remember wargear exactly... but this list was pretty solid. Sure I have problems with drop pod armies or nidzilla, but it sure is fun to tell people your playing Ig then whipping out all the heavy weapons when they are expecting tanks lol.

And my other 2k list was a AC. Pretty solid list 13 ish tanks. Was a hoot to play every now and then.

Now Im considering dusting off the 10 Ogryns that I have and trying to put them into play, but to my dismay I cant for the life of me figure out how to give em a power weapon. They are a kick arse H2H (For guard) unit and they cant get a lousy power weapon, which to me seems really really lame. I was thinking of makeing a 10 man squad and giveing them the Hardend Fighters (+1 WS) trait to give them just a little more oomph. And thoughts on this?

With the new edition, if rumors prove true... (Sniper rifles cause pinning and have rending) Ratling squads will be oh so worth it for 11 pts a model! (Its a steal!) Sure stat wise they suck, but infil them into thick cover and you have 10 sniper rifles harassing the enemy! You lose the whole squad your out 110 pts. Always hit on 2 wound on 4... nummy. Your thoughs on this?

Also What would players like to see changed or added to the Imperial Guard Armylists? Comments, thoughts and suggestions are welcome here. Feel free to add your two cents.

If you want to make a list on speculation for 5th based on the rumors, I suggest Demolishers with plasma cannon side sponsons. The destructive power of no partials realized to its fullest. At range you can lay a torrent of firepower with your barrage of Pcannons that only roll to scatter, and at close range you can devestate your foes with a demolisher cannon.

The rumors for 5th also add the fact that you can no consolidate into fresh enemies, making your gun line safe, so counter charge isnt that important.

This one may be a bit unscrupulous, but it would be amazing if legal for 5th. The current rumors have screening gone, but instead you recieve a 4+ cover save if LOS is drawn threw another unit. Camo Cloaks FTW with a 3+ cover save at range.

Why so many power weapons? They're W1 I3 ICs. They're never going to swing.

Buy yourself an Honorifica and a Standard Bearer. And for goodness sake, get some Lascannons in those Infantry squads.

BYE

Actually, they do hit... more often then you would think. I cant even begin to count how many times they have actually saved my line on a timely counter-charge.

Anecdotal evidence is meaningless.

I could have a unit of Ratlings that once destroyed Howling Bansheers in HTH combat, but it wouldn't suddenly make them a good HTH unit.

Spend the points on your army's strengths - shooting - not on their weaknesses.

BYE

jp400, instead of getting PWs on JOs and trusting to your apparently amazing luck, why not get Rough Riders and only have to hope for average luck?

I thought Sharpshooters didn't work on Heavy Weapons.

Pg 57 ig codex

Any Guard infantry model with a Bs of 3 make make a single re-roll of a shooting to hit roll of 1. The sharpshooter ability has no affect when fireing plasma weapons (which few men survive long enough to master) or sniper rifles (where the slightest inaccuracy ruins the shot). This ability costs 10 points for a unit and can be applied to any guard infantry unit with at least one BS3 model.


So sharpshooter doesnt work on heavy weapons.... it works on the guardsmen manning the weapons since they are BS3.

@Tegeus Amazing luck has some to do with it, but mostly I rely on my opponent makeing a mistake and ignoreing that unit. True they are I 3 and in most cases strike last.... but when they are able to swing, its nice to drop a couple of marines. As for rough riders, I have a few of the really old models... but they just dont appeal to me really.

@ HBMC I agree that you should spend points on your armies strongpoints, but I have found that most people will tend to stay away from even guardsmen if they find out that they are armed with a Pw... I use this to my advantage whenever I can. Yes Guard suck in H2H.... but it is nice to at least be able to kill enemy models in h2h as opposed to watching as my few actual hits bounce off their 3+ armour save.

Amazing luck has some to do with it, but mostly I rely on my opponent makeing a mistake and ignoreing that unit. True they are I 3 and in most cases strike last.... but when they are able to swing, its nice to drop a couple of marines.

You mean it's nice when out of three dice, you roll at least two 4+s to hit and then, out of those that hit, you roll at least two 5+s to wound? Yeah, it is nice when you roll really really well. You don't say! It's nice when you kill a squad of Terminators by plinking at them with Gretchin blastas, too, but you won't see me blowing my budget on Grots based on that.

Edit: And yes, I am aware that the expenditure is pretty miniscule, but when you spam it everywhere the way you do, it does add up. It's all very well indulging in PWs, but if those points could have gotten you another special or two, then I think you're shortchanging yourself.

If your plan is to rely on your opponent making a mistake, you need a new plan.

BYE

Ok seriously, did someone on another forum rip you a new one and you decided to take it out on me? For fu cks sake, lighten up! I open a forum for discussion and it turns into nothing more then Cheap banter. Do I tell you how to play your armies? No I do not. If I take a more casual approach to playing my lists then so be it. Who the hell are you to tell me that I need a new plan. And who here can honestly say that thay have never taken advantage of their opponents mistakes? Nobody!

So far only Darkness and Nurglitch have had any real input toward the way that this topic was intended. Did I ask anywhere in my origional post to pick apart my list? No I didnt! So keep this topic on track!

SHarpshooters is a waste of points. I have run the math myself. The only time it pays off is if you give it to a squad of Heavy bolters.

Also, Why are you making HB/PG combos. Guard suck unless you dedicate them completely towards one job. I always give guard one of two jobs: MEQ killers or Horde army killers. Which are they? You would be better off with hb/gl/Storm bolter combos than this, then a PG or LC ML combo. I usually just give em a ML.

Why are you giving your officer a power weapon? They are just going to get killed and die. If you dont want to drop them in as melta or plasma squads then they are useless. You are better off giving you commander a standard and making him as HSO. That way your guys wont run as much.

I think they're just adding vigorous constructive criticism. Since you see to be a new user, HBMC is pretty well established guard player in these parts and knows the ropes pretty well when it comes to Guard army lists for what flat out works and what just doesn't. Also you were asking for comments thoughts and suggestions. Try not to take it personal, sometimes forums make people appear acerbic at times.

As far as your list goes it seems alright, like HBMC said get some HW teams into your troops for the bulk of your AT. A large reason for this is because a HWP or HWT doesn't come with the ablative wounds that a normal platoon squad does (duh) meaning you can take a bit more kills from your opponent instead of the HW being hit right up.

You could always try taking the mechanized doctrine if you have the chimeras, or, my personal favorite of conscripts. 50-100 cheap troops coming to swamp my opponents in hth or as a distraction and forcing TP tests is nice as it protects my meat and potatoes of my army.

Unfortunately, limiting the doctrines you choose from can really hamper the ability of your units to be as effective as they can be. Take SW squads for instance, with a demo charge and 2 melta guns at 85 points each they are a cheap and effective armor/heavy infantry deterrent. Give them Drop troops and they are rightfully feared by an opponent. In addition they have 3 ablative wounds before the soul of the unit is effected.

sharpshooters is a nice doctrine and works well with HW's such as AC's and HB's, hell even if a spread of lasgun RF is able to go off, but with ratling snipers it's a bit lackluster. the snipers don't get multiple shots, so it takes a bit away from the SS doctrine, and pinning will only be great against lurking nids, small units of orks, some eldar, tau, and maybe guard.

Hopefully that helps and remember, try not to take suggestions that offend your play style personally, you're bound to get someone's advice sooner or later.

To the OP:

Maybe you've misunderstood the point of this forum. If you post a list here, people will pick it apart--that's what this place is for. If you want to talk about what units are good and how to use them, the Tactics forum is what we usually use. If you to want talk about hopes for what might be in a new IG codex, then I guess Dakka Discussions is what you want.

i don't know if the basilisks are going to do the best here for you, in fact I'd rather have a russ than one of them. if you could finaggle points around I'd put two russ' in to replace the basilisks. then I'd do as HBMC has said above

swapping a basilisk for a tank is a bad idea. Single tanks are not a good idea.

Terrain could be a problem for hiding two basilisks, or it may not be an issue at all, depending on his local game style. Stories from GTs and some big tournaments would make me think twice before bringing two basilisks, as they often have very little terrain, but games at my local store usually have plenty.

Basilisks are great for a shooty list like this. They are cheap, powerful, and force people to stand and take a pounding or advance into your massed, direct fire weapons.

I think it's safe to say that most or all of your units in your current lists have worked for you in the past: otheriwse any semi-rational person would stop using those units. The broader point to what HBMC is saying is that while you remember the good times with power weapons, you don't remember the many (many) times that your JO whiffs or fails to wound.

That said, the proper defense for using Power weapons is simple: show me a better use for the 5 pts. If your list, while rough, I think we can find plenty.

I take one or two power weapons, generally to round out points, but they really don't live up to the hype. Experienced players know not to be afraid of them.

No need to bring PW of any sort on IG troops.

If the guns don't stop 'em, bodies better else you're going to have serious problems.

It's just the way the IG army is.

If you manage to kill assault marines with power weapons and beat back the attack, great. More power to you! Sadly, you are the exception to the rule that assault units in your lines = death.

@ Smart: I agree with you here to a point, but Personally Im the type that tends to roll LOTS of ones... so for me personally it has worked more often then it has biffed... so to me its worth it.
hmm, I threw in the PG origionally so I had something that could deal with the dropped podded/teleported termies that tend to find their way close to my line. Ill look into said combo however.

@Verm: Ive thought about conscripts, but cant seem to figure out how to effectivly use them as a tarpit. Demo charges are fun to play with... will take this into consideration.

@Grim: I agree, I love my Bassies. The reason why I have them is because my enemies tend to terrain hop toward my line thus negating most of my heavy weapons. The two Basilisks make it hard to do this. Plus they work great against Nidzilla from a distance. True they draw fire, and sometimes the terrain isnt in my favor, but thats part of the game.

@ polonius: Very true and well spoken. However, Yes I do remember all the times my Jo has wiffed, but you have to admit... the few times that you can say "My Jo just killed your Chaos Lord" is priceless.

@ Stelek: Where is such rule written? I go into games fully expecting 80% deaths as S.O.P True H2H in my lines tends to suck... but it doesnt 100% mean that its game over. (Unless its nidzilla then your upa creek anyway)

Has anyone played around with a Schaeffer Bomb rescently? Im curious as to how well this has worked for others.

I have had the ultimate conscript tarpit. Ppl seem to hate it though. I stick comissar guant in with em. To date only one player has gotten rid of it. You now have 50 fearless guys. Anyone who get into hand to hand with them is now locked in combat until they inflict 50 wounds. Also yarrick is ok too, he can make it so that you may actually win a combat. His force field makes him more durable as well as his machirian cross.

The horde killer combo is nice,
3 HB S5 AP4 shots 36" Heavy
1 GL S6 AP4 shot 24" assault
2 SB S4 AP5 shots 24" assault

so 6 shots at 4,5,6 S that will punch through most horde armies. Flamers are also good, but you dont really want to be that close.

MEQ combo
LC/ML, PG/MG and Pls Pstl

3-4 shots at either AP1, 2, or ap either way it scares marines.

well i know they can't take lascannons so that's out. and why give them heavy weapons? they should get flamers at most. other than that they are a meat shield, no more

No I was talking about your regular squads with that. SOrry probably did not make that clear. Also, yes the conscripts are a meatshield. I do not give them anything. Maybe a flamer but not likely.

alright then guess stuff got lost in the translation. thanks for the clearification