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There's also the 3-way battle talked about in the big rule book in the special mission section.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
"Taking the test" is defined as totting up the dice used and coming to an answer. So rolling 2D6 and taking the test on 2D6 are the same thing, however the Eldar power of roll 3D6, dropping the highest is still only "taking the test" on 2D6 - you rolled 3D6, but the dice you actually totted up are 2D6
There is a difference, which is why I asked you to actually read and take note of the wording for taking tests.
SitW and the 3D6, drop the highest Eldar power did NOT work together previously - because SitW specified you took the test on 3D6, breaking the Eldar power, and vice versa. Hence the errata, which allws you to add a dice for the Eldar power, add a separate one for SitW (meaning you are rolling 4D6) and then drop the highest to see if you have passed the test - taking the test on 3D6.
I was speaking of RoWa, sorry if that was not clear. If they had intended the change just to accommodate RoWi they would have just changed RoWi to +1 die drop the lowest. The change they made has broader implications.
rigeld2 wrote: If you're in range of 37 Tyranids are you in range of a Tyranid? If you're in range of 1 Tyranid are you in range of a Tyranid?
you would be in range of a Tyranid 37 times just like you would be in range(unlimited) of a RoWa 2 times if they had 2 of them. In other words, if you are an enemy psyer within range of a nid with SITW you are affected by that models aiblity. There is no wording to indicate you will not be affected by another nids SITW as well.
rigeld2 wrote: It's usually best, when arguing RAW, not to assume anything.
For communication and comprehension to occure some minor assumptions must be made. However this is GW and as I've said I would not put it past them to make pointless changes but I don't generally assume they intend to do so.
rigeld2 wrote: Wrong. SITW and RoWa are not worded the same, and you're attempting to apply the same wording to both.
The deference in wording extends only so far as to say which psykers are affected. The effect is the same.
Hukoseft wrote: have you heard of this thing called apocalypse...you can have people on the same side which are different armies which means you can have that
This is possible but I was under the impression that apolalypse has it's own rules and these are intended for the basic 40k game.
All that having been said, I feel I have a valid view of the changes but that is not to say others are necessarily incorrect either. GW could have intended most any of the opinions expressed here and it would not be strictly against their wording. Deathreapers 'I'm already rolling an extra die' line of thought is just as logical as 'I'm in range of a Tyranid if I'm in range of 37 of them'(though both are unsupported by the text IMO).
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
Abandon - no, the errata was to accomodate the interactions AND partially consistency. Something theyve started to get good at, recently.
Well, better at least!
Also - I'm arguing they DO stack
Edit: ytour claim falls down with SitW, however - its the same as a Waaagh banner, in that being in range of multiple fulfils the requirement, unlike Runes where no range requirement is required
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/05 07:58:04
nosferatu1001 wrote:Abandon - no, the errata was to accomodate the interactions AND partially consistency. Something theyve started to get good at, recently.
Well, better at least!
Also - I'm arguing they DO stack
Edit: ytour claim falls down with SitW, however - its the same as a Waaagh banner, in that being in range of multiple fulfils the requirement, unlike Runes where no range requirement is required
I can't address the Waaagh banner as I don't have access to that book. What is its exact wording?
SITW is a creature ability and each will act separately. You say that if your in range of 7 nids with SITW you are in range of a nid with SITW and to the other 6 you'd say I'm already rolling my extra die... Which is what DeathReaper kept saying about RoWa... I see only a range limit difference between the two... Why do you leap to different kinds of reasoning for the two?
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
Abandon wrote:SITW is a creature ability and each will act separately. You say that if your in range of 7 nids with SITW you are in range of a nid with SITW and to the other 6 you'd say I'm already rolling my extra die... Which is what DeathReaper kept saying about RoWa... I see only a range limit difference between the two... Why do you leap to different kinds of reasoning for the two?
No.
You're in range of a nid. You roll an extra die.
You're about to take a psychic test. Check to see if you're in range of a nid with SitW. You are? Add the die.
Where is the permission to check more than once?
RoWa is worded differently - you cannot compare the triggers.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Abandon wrote:SITW is a creature ability and each will act separately. You say that if your in range of 7 nids with SITW you are in range of a nid with SITW and to the other 6 you'd say I'm already rolling my extra die... Which is what DeathReaper kept saying about RoWa... I see only a range limit difference between the two... Why do you leap to different kinds of reasoning for the two?
No.
You're in range of a nid. You roll an extra die.
You're about to take a psychic test. Check to see if you're in range of a nid with SitW. You are? Add the die.
Where is the permission to check more than once?
RoWa is worded differently - you cannot compare the triggers.
It is not describing the enemy psyker. It's describing SITW which is of couse, on a Tyranid. Explaing how the SITW ability on that nid will affect the enemy psyker.
You're about to take a psychic test. The SITW nids check to see if they have range on you. They do? Add an extra die for each.
Where is the permission to ignore any particular instance of SITW?
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
Why would you check SitW range from the Tyranid's perspective? It says "Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule must roll an extra dice when taking Psychic tests, and will suffer a Perils of the Warp attack on the roll of any double 1 or double 6.", not "Any Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule within 12"of an enemy psyker forces him to roll an extra dice when taking Psychic tests, and he will suffer a Perils of the Warp attack on the roll of any double 1 or double 6."
Going by the rule, the enemy psyker is the action taker, he adds the extra D6 if he is within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW, the Tyranid does not force him to roll an extra D6 if it is within 12" of him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/06 03:17:03
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Avatar 720 wrote: Going by the rule, the enemy psyker is the action taker, he adds the extra D6 if he is within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW, the Tyranid does not force him to roll an extra D6 if it is within 12" of him.
Really? I pretty sure the Tyranids SITW ability is what will 'force him to roll an extra D6 if it is within 12" of him'.
Edit:
Avatar 720 wrote:"Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule".
You have just stated why you would check it. This is not told for the perspective of the psyker, it's from the perspective of the Tyranid. That's what makes it any 'enemy psyker'.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/06 04:09:08
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
Does the rule say 'A Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule forces any enemy psyker within 12" to roll an extra dice when taking psychic tests.'?
The rule forces him to roll an extra D6 if he is within 12" of it, not the other way around.
You are looking at it as if 12" from the Tyranid to the psyker is the exact same as 12" from the psyker to the Tyranid, but it isn't, and the way that the rule is worded - "Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid..." - tells us that we check whether the psyker is within 12" of a Tyranid, not whether a Tyranid is within 12" of him, the latter of which allow for more than 1 extra D6, with the former being restricted to 1 extra D6.
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Avatar 720 wrote:Does the rule say 'A Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule forces any enemy psyker within 12" to roll an extra dice when taking psychic tests.'?
The rule forces him to roll an extra D6 if he is within 12" of it, not the other way around.
You are looking at it as if 12" from the Tyranid to the psyker is the exact same as 12" from the psyker to the Tyranid, but it isn't, and the way that the rule is worded - "Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid..." - tells us that we check whether the psyker is within 12" of a Tyranid, not whether a Tyranid is within 12" of him, the latter of which allow for more than 1 extra D6, with the former being restricted to 1 extra D6.
You have this all backwards. The subject matter which is written in bold letters above the section says SHADOW IN THE WARP. It is not about the enemy psyker, it's about what a Tyranid with SITW does to them when they try to use a psychic power within 12 inches of it.
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
Avatar 720 wrote:Does the rule say 'A Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule forces any enemy psyker within 12" to roll an extra dice when taking psychic tests.'?
The rule forces him to roll an extra D6 if he is within 12" of it, not the other way around.
You are looking at it as if 12" from the Tyranid to the psyker is the exact same as 12" from the psyker to the Tyranid, but it isn't, and the way that the rule is worded - "Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid..." - tells us that we check whether the psyker is within 12" of a Tyranid, not whether a Tyranid is within 12" of him, the latter of which allow for more than 1 extra D6, with the former being restricted to 1 extra D6.
You have this all backwards. The subject matter which is written in bold letters above the section says SHADOW IN THE WARP. It is not about the enemy psyker, it's about what a Tyranid with SITW does to them when they try to use a psychic power within 12 inches of it.
Exactly. If a psyker attempts to cast a power within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW, he adds an extra D6; the rule says it, you have just said it. It is not about what happens when a Tyranid is within 12" of a psyker, which would add +1 for each Tyranid as opposed to the single one you get for being within 12" of a Tyranid when casting.
Look at it this way: Enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW? Yes. Add an extra D6. Tyranid with SitW within 12" of an enemy psyker? Yes. Add an extra D6. Enemy psyker within 12" of 5 Tyranids with SitW? Yes. Add an extra D6 for being within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW. 5 Tyranids with SitW within 12" of an enemy psyker? Yes. Add an extra 5D6 for 5 Tyranids with SitW being within 12" of the psyker.
Do you see how differently the rule would have to be worded for the multiple D6 to take effect? If it said 'A Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule forces any enemy psyker within 12" to roll an extra dice when taking psychic tests.' then you would check to see if your Tyranid is within 12", and if he is, the enemy psyker rolls and extra D6, then you check to see if another one is within 12", and if he is, the enemy psyker rolls a further extra D6.
What matters here is what the rule tells you to check, and it tells you to check to see if the enemy psyker is within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW NOT the other way around.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/03/06 05:04:33
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
'Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid' grammatically indicates the Tyranid as the point from which to calculate distance. You still have this backwards.
SITW is an ability that triggers when an enemy psyker tries to do it's thing within 12 inches from the the nid.
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
Abandon wrote:'Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid' grammatically indicates the Tyranid as the point from which to calculate distance. You still have this backwards.
SITW is an ability that triggers when an enemy psyker tries to do it's thing within 12 inches from the the nid.
You failed to address anything in my previous post.
I don't see what this 'backwards' stuff has to do with what the rules tell you to do.
Enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW? Measure from the Tyranid to the psyker. Yes. Add an extra D6. Tyranid with SitW within 12" of an enemy psyker? Measure from the psyker to the Tyranid. Yes. Add an extra D6. Enemy psyker within 12" of 5 Tyranids with SitW? Measure from the Tyranids to the psyker. Yes. Add an extra D6 for being within 12" of a Tyranid with SitW. 5 Tyranids with SitW within 12" of an enemy psyker? Measure from the psyker to the Tyranid. Yes. Add an extra 5D6 for 5 Tyranids with SitW being within 12" of the psyker.
What of that, bar the incorrect way of handling the rule, is backwards?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/06 06:15:43
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Avatar 720 wrote:Why would you check SitW range from the Tyranid's perspective?
I was answering your previous question before moving on.
It is the Tyranids ability that is being activated. When you measure from the Tyranids to the psyker you're checking the state if the nid to make sure it has range. Yes? add a d6. Repeat for each nid. Add a d6 for each in range.
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
You may see it like that Deathreaper but to me it's quite easy, 1 Rune of Warding = +1 extra dice so 3d6; 2 Runes of Warding tell you to = +1 extra dice, +1 extra dice so 4d6.
I can't really see the counterargument, 2 different pieces of war gear on different models, why shouldn't they both take effect? I fail to see the contradiction myself and I don't see an advantageous option but a correct one, however I would abide by rolling a d6.
5.000 2.000
"The stars themselves once lived and died at our command, yet you still dare to oppose our will."
You measure from the psyker to the Nid, actually - not the other way around.
That is why it is a one or more achieving the same result situation - as soon as you are in range of one, you are within 12" of a tyranid and comply with the rule, thus only ever adding 1D6.
I agree with SitW not stacking. The wording coupled with the fact that it's goes from the psyker to the tyranid let us infer that once you check and any tyranid is in range you add the extra dice, and then stop checking.
nosferatu1001 wrote:You measure from the psyker to the Nid, actually - not the other way around.
That is why it is a one or more achieving the same result situation - as soon as you are in range of one, you are within 12" of a tyranid and comply with the rule, thus only ever adding 1D6.
Each instance of SITW is a separate ability on a separate Tyranid model. That is why the singular is used. Why are you taking it to mean only one matters?
"Any enemy psyker within 12” of a Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule" Is there some other way you would like them to refer to a nid with SITW?
You a wrong about the measurement also. If I say object#1 is within X distance form object#2, I'm indicating an X length radius circle around object#2 in which object#1 exists. In this case object#1 is the enemy psyker and object#2 is the Tyranid with a 12" bubble around it your looking to see if the psyker is within and the point you are given to measure from is the Tyranid.
nosferatu1001 wrote: as soon as you are in range of one, you are within 12" of a tyranid and comply with the rule, thus only ever adding 1D6.
This is the very same logic you argued(correctly) against with DeathReaper though he was saying 'as soon as you add an extra die you are complying with the rule, thus only ever adding 1D6'. It seems the only reason you flip over on this one is because this rule talks about a Tyranid...
In any case, play it as you like. I'm done arguing about it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/06 16:07:20
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
nosferatu1001 wrote: as soon as you are in range of one, you are within 12" of a tyranid and comply with the rule, thus only ever adding 1D6.
This is the very same logic you argued(correctly) against with DeathReaper though he was saying 'as soon as you add an extra die you are complying with the rule, thus only ever adding 1D6'. It seems the only reason you flip over on this one is because this rule talks about a Tyranid...
Again, you are trying to argue that SitW and RoWa are processed the same despite different wording.
You cannot compare the two abilities as the trigger is not the same.
Also, I'm a Tyranid player and am against SitW stacking. There's no bias involved here. Accusations of such are in poor taste usually.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
Abandon - yes, you ARE done here. As soon as you start accusing others of bias due to the army, you have lost any argument you were trying to make, and ANY credibility on this sub forum.
I play nids. I dont play Eldar. Guess youre entirely wrong, as ever
Oh, and youre comparing two different rules which have two different wordings, and stating they are the same. Wrong. Just, simply, wrong.
nosferatu1001 wrote:Abandon - yes, you ARE done here. As soon as you start accusing others of bias due to the army, you have lost any argument you were trying to make, and ANY credibility on this sub forum.
I play nids. I dont play Eldar. Guess youre entirely wrong, as ever
Oh, and youre comparing two different rules which have two different wordings, and stating they are the same. Wrong. Just, simply, wrong.
I never accused you of bias. I said because it talks about 'a Tyranid' to stress the singular which fit into what I was saying and had nothing to do with army lists. You are good at misreading things though so..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/09 09:42:12
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change.
I wasnt the only one who came to that "misinterpretation" of something very simple - that I flipped over because the rules talk about a tyranid, implying it is because i dont play tyranids / do play Eldar.
Abandon, I don't think you can interpret SitW that way just because it states "a tyranid". The 'a' isn't singular in the 'each' sense, but more of the 'a/any' sense.
As an experiment, let's say a named character "Tyranid Killer Killington" has a special piece of wargear that states "If Killington is in base contact with a tyranid with shadows in the warp special rule, he gains an extra attack."
How many extra attacks would he get if he is fighting 3 warriors?
Answer would be one, because the rule checks whether or not he is in contact with a tyranid with SitW, if yes he adds the extra attack. It would not stack because it does not ask if he is in contact with two, or three, it doesn't care.
That is not the same as RoWa because RoWa because RoWa is the wargear with the rule, and both farseers RoWa have to fire because the conditions are met.
yakface responded to my query in the INAT submission thread. Here is what he has to say.
yakface wrote:
Happyjew wrote:I have a question regarding the latest INATFAQ.:
INAT wrote:NEC.85G.02 – Q: If two Crypteks with Seismic Crucible are attached to the same unit, can one enemy unit be nominated for both, reducing their assault move by 2D3 inches?
A: Yes [clarification].
ELD.26D.01 – Q: Are multiple instances of Runes of Warding in the same Eldar army cumulative with each other (meaning opposing psykers take their psychic tests using 4D6)?
A: No, multiple instances of Runes of Warding in the same army still only add a single extra D6 to enemy psychic tests [clarification].
I'm curious why one set of wargear stacks, yet another does not. Any clarification would be appreciated.
This point was definitely brought up during the discussion and there is no completely clear-cut answer.
In the case of the Seismic Crucible it seemed fairly straight forward: The ability is generated separately by each Cryptek and could be allocated onto two different units, affecting them both, so it makes sense that applying both Crucibles onto a single enemy unit would mean it suffers the effects of both.
The Runes of Warding is a bit more of a tricky situation. There are those that believe GW's errata was done specifically to allow the stacking of multiple Runes of Warding, but we felt it was pretty clear the change was made to iron out the issues you had when you had a Runes of Witnessing vs. a Runes of Warding in opposing armies.
While we could be 100% wrong, we don't think the intention was to make two sets of Runes of Warding in the same army essentially shut down any opposing army from using any psychic powers (as taking tests on a 4D6 would do). I know Eldar certainly could benefit from such a boost, but we're basically falling back on the absurdity clause here: It just seems highly unlikely that GW intends for this errata to suddenly increase the power of Runes of Witnessing to an incredible level...that's not what their errata are typically used for. They are used to clarify genuinely unclear situations, and the unclear situation that we believe the errata was made to address was when you had Runes of Witnessing vs. Runes of Warding in opposing armies.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
Abandon wrote:As far as the examples given for precedence of things not stacking, those things say they don't stack. That actually creates precedence for the argument that if things don't stack they'll say so.
This is exactly my point, and why I provided the example of the Runic Weapon. Not only is it precedent for things stacking if there isn't a specific exception, it sets precedent for things requiring a FAQ/Errata update to make it so.
kirsanth wrote:
Spoiler:
cowmonaut wrote:I believe I'm on the same page as kirsanth now - won't know until he replies again or PM's me - with regards to what Errata can/can't be, but there is still a subtle difference between Errata and FAQ.
There should be, and I think you are. Yes, I do think we agree about the idea but were debating minutae. The problem I had was in thinking that GWFAQ and Errata carry any different weight.
Both are within YMDC.
Both are within tourney bounds.
Both are exempt from Rule #1.
Both are exempt from technical restraints - e.g. errata leave text, FAQ change them.
Both carry the exact same weight in most gaming sitations.
Agreed, though I do think there's a subtle difference between the two. They are equally important and that argument is rather beside the point with regards to this thread which is why I may have seemed exasperated.
Hukoseft wrote:@cowmonaut I have to congratulate you on your long starting(I think it was your first post in this discussion) statement, it put it in a way I was failing
Thank you!
Hukoseft wrote:have you heard of this thing called apocalypse...you can have people on the same side which are different armies which means you can have that
Apocalypse is not Warhammer 40,000 standard. The FAQs/Errata seem to be for Warhammer 40,000 standard. Apocalypse is a supplement that changes the core rules and has caveats about such weird things, if I'm recalling correctly. I wouldn't base any arguments on how things should work based on Apocalypse at the moment.
Avatar 720 wrote:Does the rule say 'A Tyranid with the Shadow in the Warp special rule forces any enemy psyker within 12" to roll an extra dice when taking psychic tests.'?
The rule forces him to roll an extra D6 if he is within 12" of it, not the other way around.
You are looking at it as if 12" from the Tyranid to the psyker is the exact same as 12" from the psyker to the Tyranid, but it isn't, and the way that the rule is worded - "Any enemy psyker within 12" of a Tyranid..." - tells us that we check whether the psyker is within 12" of a Tyranid, not whether a Tyranid is within 12" of him, the latter of which allow for more than 1 extra D6, with the former being restricted to 1 extra D6.
Thank you Avatar 720! You just pointed out a very subtle difference I was missing. You are, I think, 100% correct with regards to SitW not stacking. The actionable party is the person taking the test, so it only triggers once if any Tyranid with the special rule is within 12". If it was the other way around, that power would be stacking with itself but because of the way its worded it doesn't.
jgehunter wrote:You may see it like that Deathreaper but to me it's quite easy, 1 Rune of Warding = +1 extra dice so 3d6; 2 Runes of Warding tell you to = +1 extra dice, +1 extra dice so 4d6.
I can't really see the counterargument, 2 different pieces of war gear on different models, why shouldn't they both take effect? I fail to see the contradiction myself and I don't see an advantageous option but a correct one, however I would abide by rolling a d6.
I'm with you here. The rules for the wargear and the precedent set forth by other wargear seems to say that they stack.
So, how do they all interact? Just add dice and effects!
- Runes of Warding and Runes of Warding: Test is 4D6 (multiple instances) and perils on any total of 12 or more.
- Runes of Warding versus Runes of Witnessing: Test is 4D6 (or more if multiple Runes of Warding are present), you discard the highest and peril on any total of 12 or more.
- Shadow in the Warp versus Runes of Witnessing: Test is 4D6 if in range of any Tyranid (including multiple) with the SitW Special Rule, you discard the highest and peril on any double 1 or double 6.
- Runes of Warding and Shadow in the Warp: Test is on 4D6 (or more if multiple Runes of Warding are present) with perils on any double 1, double 6, or total of 12 or more.
- Runes of Warding and Shadow in the Warp versus Runes of Witnessing: Test is on 5D6 (or more if multiple Runes of Warding are present), you discard the highest and peril on any double 1, double 6, or total of 12 or more.
The rules can all stack with one another. The only one that stacks with itself is Runes of Warding, due to how the rules are worded. Avatar 720 (and others!) were right that Shadow in the Warp does not stack. The way the rule is worded, the enemy psyker checks if he is in range of one of your Tyranids with Shadow in the Warp. If he is, he rolls an extra dice on his test.
Oddly enough I'm thinking these interactions make more sense than what they had before.
cowmonaut wrote:The rules can all stack with one another. The only one that stacks with itself is Runes of Warding, due to how the rules are worded.
Runes of Witnessing would stack with itself as well. But, whether you would drop the highest die or the two highest dice is ambiguous. Fortunately, there's no way to get multiples Runes of Witnessing to effect a psychic test (for now).
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