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 Crimson wrote:
I always hated the idea that Emperor was somehow super huge. Humans are not orks, they do not decide leadership based on who is biggest. Emperor is a master psyker and a strategist. I'd Imagine him to be much more like a Jedi Knight than Incredible Hulk.

Very cool insight. It seems like our BL authors have the primitive mentality of an Ork. Or at least they think the 13 year olds reading BL books do. Leaders should be tall, but not f***huge.

I'd like the average male Imperial to be 1.8, cos those proportions are pretty good-looking. Space Marines maybe 2.0, and Primarchs 2.15, like Shaq.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
At no point is the Lion said to be short for a Primarch, like Alpharius or Angron. Magnus being much larger fits with his characterization as a "giant" among the Primarchs. At ten feet tall he would be a full three feet taller than an armoured Marine.

It's also funny that people like Simon Egan (who works on 40k products) know less about the setting than I do. Vulkan being the "largest" of the Primarchs doesn't just contradict Magnus being described as the largest, it also contradicts a direct comparison to Ferrus Manus. In Fulgrim Manus is directly stated to be taller and wider than Vulkan, and much more so than Corax.

Angron was short?

Like Danzig. This is why he was so angry all the time. Short Man Syndrome.

And now you know...

... the rest of the story.

LOL It has all become clear to me now!

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I always hated the idea that Emperor was somehow super huge. Humans are not orks, they do not decide leadership based on who is biggest. Emperor is a master psyker and a strategist. I'd Imagine him to be much more like a Jedi Knight than Incredible Hulk.

Very cool insight. It seems like our BL authors have the primitive mentality of an Ork. Or at least they think the 13 year olds reading BL books do. Leaders should be tall, but not f***huge.

I'd like the average male Imperial to be 1.8, cos those proportions are pretty good-looking. Space Marines maybe 2.0, and Primarchs 2.15, like Shaq.

why do you guys keep making the average man a midget...... the average full grown male is roughly 6 foot. about 190-230 pounds when fit...... so they say most people come to a astres should so some times lower so this wold make them roughly 6.4 or 6.6 ish and then in the hh they mention the differnece between a human to astres is the same as astres to primarch so about 7.6 ish.

This is horus http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Andre_in_the_late_'80s.jpg

 PhillyT wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
At no point is the Lion said to be short for a Primarch, like Alpharius or Angron. Magnus being much larger fits with his characterization as a "giant" among the Primarchs. At ten feet tall he would be a full three feet taller than an armoured Marine.

It's also funny that people like Simon Egan (who works on 40k products) know less about the setting than I do. Vulkan being the "largest" of the Primarchs doesn't just contradict Magnus being described as the largest, it also contradicts a direct comparison to Ferrus Manus. In Fulgrim Manus is directly stated to be taller and wider than Vulkan, and much more so than Corax.

Angron was short?

Remember, Stalin was shorter than Napoleon at stood at an incredible height of 5'4.

But was that ever actually say that?

OgreChubbs wrote:

Maximus Bitch wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
I always hated the idea that Emperor was somehow super huge. Humans are not orks, they do not decide leadership based on who is biggest. Emperor is a master psyker and a strategist. I'd Imagine him to be much more like a Jedi Knight than Incredible Hulk.

Very cool insight. It seems like our BL authors have the primitive mentality of an Ork. Or at least they think the 13 year olds reading BL books do. Leaders should be tall, but not f***huge.

I'd like the average male Imperial to be 1.8, cos those proportions are pretty good-looking. Space Marines maybe 2.0, and Primarchs 2.15, like Shaq.

why do you guys keep making the average man a midget...... the average full grown male is roughly 6 foot. about 190-230 pounds when fit...... so they say most people come to a astres should so some times lower so this wold make them roughly 6.4 or 6.6 ish and then in the hh they mention the differnece between a human to astres is the same as astres to primarch so about 7.6 ish.

This is horus http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Andre_in_the_late_'80s.jpg

That's assuming Earth-like conditions and food. Given the conditions most Hive Cities are in, it's likely many people are a
not as well fed as we are today. Also bear in mind planets with larger gravity will stunt growth (see Squats) while those with smaller gravity will allow humans go grow taller but spindlier (Tau Air caste for example).

But then there is the issue that the lifespan of normal people still ends up at 120 years. So health and diet may be better despite the idea that life is terrible.

 PhillyT wrote:
But then there is the issue that the lifespan of normal people still ends up at 120 years. So health and diet may be better despite the idea that life is terrible.

That's the average. Averages are not mathematical certainties, it's just a numbers trick.

So you have a bunch of people dying at 40 due to toxic environments and malnutrition, and you have a bunch of wealthy people living to 200 because of better medical technology, nutrition, rejuvenat treatments, etc. Add all those people on both sides up and your average age is 120 (simplified to 240/2=120).

 Psienesis wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
But then there is the issue that the lifespan of normal people still ends up at 120 years. So health and diet may be better despite the idea that life is terrible.

That's the average. Averages are not mathematical certainties, it's just a numbers trick.

So you have a bunch of people dying at 40 due to toxic environments and malnutrition, and you have a bunch of wealthy people living to 200 because of better medical technology, nutrition, rejuvenat treatments, etc. Add all those people on both sides up and your average age is 120 (simplified to 240/2=120).

Do you count in the fact that probably a lot of Imperial citizens die before the age of five due to violence, starvation and other nasty stuff happening in the massive underhives?

If it is a straight average it includes those who die young.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
But then there is the issue that the lifespan of normal people still ends up at 120 years. So health and diet may be better despite the idea that life is terrible.

That's the average. Averages are not mathematical certainties, it's just a numbers trick.

So you have a bunch of people dying at 40 due to toxic environments and malnutrition, and you have a bunch of wealthy people living to 200 because of better medical technology, nutrition, rejuvenat treatments, etc. Add all those people on both sides up and your average age is 120 (simplified to 240/2=120).

Do you count in the fact that probably a lot of Imperial citizens die before the age of five due to violence, starvation and other nasty stuff happening in the massive underhives?

Yes, which is then counter-balanced by people like Eisenhorn reaching 400+ years, or Saint Bassilus, who made it to a thousand years or so. So the "average" still works out to 120.

As a history teacher I often remind my students that average like span and average life span minus those who die below age ten are vastly different in many periods of human history.

Yep. Like I mentioned up-thread, the "average" lifespan is just a mathematical model, not actual truth.

There is, for example, the belief that people dropped dead at 35 in the Middle Ages. Not true. A lot of people ( I mean a lot) died before the age of 2 but, if you made it past that, you had a good chance of making it to 70.

What's the average between 2 and 70? 36. That does not mean that people were naturally dropping like flies in their 30s, it's just the way the math shakes out.

 PhillyT wrote:
There are significant contradictions in the fluff.

I place things as:

Rule book fluff
Bl fluff
Official images

The bl books are a mess and untrustworthy.

From what I can recall BL books are the only sources to explicitly state any Primarch heights.

The Lion: Ten feet unarmoured.
Magnus the Red: Nearly seventeen feet while armoured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PhillyT wrote:


Angron was short?

He's implied to be, IIRC. He's described as stout and squat compared to his brothers. Sort of like Danny Devito.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

OgreChubbs wrote:


why do you guys keep making the average man a midget...... the average full grown male is roughly 6 foot. about 190-230 pounds when fit...... so they say most people come to a astres should so some times lower so this wold make them roughly 6.4 or 6.6 ish and then in the hh they mention the differnece between a human to astres is the same as astres to primarch so about 7.6 ish.

This is horus http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Andre_in_the_late_'80s.jpg

The average American man is 5'9"-5'11". Leaning closer to the former.

Most countries don't reach six feet in terms of average height.

Horus was much bigger than Andre the Giant. Even unarmoured he could cradle him like a kid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PhillyT wrote:
But then there is the issue that the lifespan of normal people still ends up at 120 years. So health and diet may be better despite the idea that life is terrible.

Averages are a poor way to determine how tall most people are.

The median is a better method but it's basically never used.

I have read in the books that astartes are 3 meters tall.
That is extremely tall.

I once met a guy that was so tall, i was dumbstruck, i reached him so i looked straight at his chest.
I absolutely had to talk about his height, and he told me he was told ten times a day how tall he is.
He said he is 2 meters 10 centimeters. I am 170 cm, and i looked straight at his chest, and he seemed like a giant to me, his hands soo big and my neck was bent backwards to meet his eyes.

I mean, what seems so little in theory, seems so much bigger in real life.
40 cm, not so much, but damn, in real life it is alot, because his head is bigger, his hands and feet are bigger, arms and chest thicker.

This thread is from 2014, you know. Your input is valued but the thread is dead.

My apologies.

 Lynata wrote:
Boy, that must suck not being able to ride in the tanks your army uses.

But I suppose this is the point where I should throw in that no, we do not have any sort of definite numbers, since very few things in 40k are definite. Rather, all we know and all we read is "rumors, distorted legends and half-truths", to quote Marc Gascoigne.
And personally, the larger people are described as, and the more insane stunts they supposedly pull off, the more I am willing to believe it's one of those legends.

In the end, however, we all have to make our own call on that. There is no truth on this matter, merely opinions and preferences.

Well the primarchs were the Second most influence beings in a basically galaxy spanning civilization adorned by many to be gods. I fairly sure they had the ability to commission tanks that can fit like a stormblade size rhino.

Vulkankiller, read the two posts above yours.