Orks making waves with the Green Tide

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**herpguy**

Chosen Praetorian wrote:
Im able to do this because my unit has target locks. Or I can just shoot my entire unit at one Boyz squad (dealing 32.5 wounds, aka whole unit death) and put one of shadowsuns fusion blasters into another squad allowing me to assault it and knock it down below fearless and sweep it in CC. And at 1850 I can have two squads of kroot with sniper rounds, and aegis line with a comms relay (so more than likely my unit WILL come in turn 2). It cannot assault the turn it comes in but I was referring to the turn after it comes in. That leaves enough pts for some riptides or broadsides, Depending on your playstyle. And I dont need to mention what large blasts and missilesides do to boyz squads, do I? In case you dont know a squad of missilesides kills roughly 13.5 boyz per turn. Large blast vary depending on how you deploy your units. I have this response alot when I tell people what this unit can do. I then play a game with them and they stand with mouths open as they try to figure out a way to deal with this unit of Demigods. I deepstrike in on a BA player with Tau allies at one point and killed a unit of broadsides, mephiston, and a unit of fire warrriors, all in the turn i landed.

I don't think anybody is trying to argue against the facts that Tau are broken, extremely boring to play with, and Orks completely stand no chance against them.

I'm just trying to figure out how you can say a farsight bomb can kill 4 squads in 3 turns by itself.

**ImotekhTheStormlord**

He is assuming that the boyz squads wont come more than 1 at a time, or that the rest of the army won't whittle it down with shooting first.

Also, that the farsight bomb could kill 20 boyz on the assault is dubious.

**Fragile**

Indeed, while it is humorous the deification that Chosen is giving the Tau, his numbers are only good when taken as a single unit vs a single unit. There are also some minor rules mistakes made in his math hammering.

Tau are strong, mainly because they are fresh out of the box, but fighting them really has not changed too much. Supporting fire is the most deadly thing that you have to watch for now

**herpguy**

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is going purely off optimistic mathhammer, not actual practice.

**Ratius**

Have you guys got any ideas for countering GT.
Im thinking mainly along the lines of squad killing VS combat effectiveness killing.

For example say you are facing 100 Orks in the GT @4x25.
You work out you can kill say 25 in one turn.
Is it better to wipe out a whole unit (leaving 3) or kill say 12/13 in two squads leaving them with 13/12 left respectively.
There are still 4 squads there, as opposed to 3 but does the combat effectiveness of the 2 weakened ones offset a full wipe?

Any ideas?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Would killing say 6 from each squad be an option either?

**Chosen Praetorian**

Lol ok, Ive only fought orks 3 times since the new dex dropped, two of which was against green tide lists. Im going to Nova at the end of the month so I guess we'll just see how it goes there. My mathhammer may have been off due to rounding errors but you may also not be taking preferred enemy orks into account, like a few others were doing. And if you land at the end of a tide line ------X, X being where I land i can take the squads one at a time. But Im done giving examples with math and experience. Try to find someone competent that plays tau and request a game against Farsight bomb, if they have more than 2 brain cells to rub together you'll see what Im saying.

**Sleg**

Ratius, I've only used Green Tide for 6th in 5 games so as far as this working everytime I can't say.
Every time I have lost it is because my opponent removed one unit at a time and kept their distance from the bulk of the force.
The 2 times I have won, it was because my opponent spreaded out their fire leaving 20+ in all the boyz units without eliminating a unit.
Basically most players play to the center, against a Green Tide, you can hinder their movement while causing massive destruction to their force. If the Orks deploy first, find their Big Mek KFF (probably closer to the center) and just hit that unit with everything you have. After just focus on their flank, charge into melee if you can.
If you do this quickly the Ork player will have already lost the game without even knowing it.

**Ratius**

So Sleg: Vs say 25X4 Ork boyz =100.
You say remove that 25 man Mob and keep retreating backwards? Staying out of that 18" (shoota) kill range?

Would you recommend a refused flank VS GT (if possible?)

What if he dosent run a KFF Steg? Say 40 mna Grot shield?

**Sleg**

removing a flank is easy and can be done on autopilot. Staying out of 18" range of most of the force is simple. For those of us who have run 100+ Orks know full well, that the front unit will keep those in behind and even most of their own unit out of range when shooting. so a few will make range and only a 3rd will hit, average half wound, and half will save. That's the average.

If you are playing a timed game, put as few units on reserve as possible, unless you can bring them in first turn. Your average game will only last 3 turns.

Grot walls will rout - think of them as just another unit. You will find that once you get over the shock of looking at the massive force and just remain focused on their toys and one unit at a time winning is very easy to accomplish every time with any semi-competitive army list - even another ork army.

Remember Green Tide is playing Roshambo and always calling Paper. You need to change your tactic from Rock to Scissor. So instead of trying to take on the entire force, surgical strike them and truly I can't see how the Orks could win.

**Jidmah**

Ratius wrote:
So Sleg: Vs say 25X4 Ork boyz =100.
You say remove that 25 man Mob and keep retreating backwards? Staying out of that 18" (shoota) kill range?

Would you recommend a refused flank VS GT (if possible?)

What if he dosent run a KFF Steg? Say 40 mna Grot shield?

Agree with Sleg, shoot one unit until it's dead, half-dead units are still very dangerous, dead units aren't.

Refuse flank deployment is very powerful against hordes, simple because the other flank can't get over to you physically - there's too many other orks in the way. And if they do, they have to give up their spread-out formation. making your blasts and templates much more powerful. I'd argue that deploying everything on one flank is the way to beat hordes of any kind. 3plusplus.com had an article dedicated to this specifically, with many pretty pictures.

As for grots, I'm with Sleg here again. The take a lot more wounds than orks due to low toughness, so you can make them rout with low-range guns which can't reach the orks. If they are spread too thin, you can even attempt to either shoot them out of coherency (which causes them to block the orks following behind them next turn) or just declare focus fire and just kill the orks not hidden by a grot - there should be plenty.