Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Remember a Green Tide, relies almost exclusively on taking numbers, if you are fielding less than 80 Orks for a 1500 point game, you do not have a green tide army and the numbers will not benefit you. Because Bikes and other toys are expensive they will cut down your numbers. If you take these, you should focus away from green tide and build your army around your focus. For example, if you take Bikes, you should speed freak your list instead. This will help you adapt to situations better.

 Sleg wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
So you're basically saying that you're the pinnacle of ork gaming and anyone better than you is "either lying, not playing against people who understand their army list, or cheating."

No I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that I have use a Tactic that seems to be working amazing and I wanted to share it. I was wondering if other Ork players have tried this.

Yes, you said exactly that. I win or draw my games more often than not if I want to, against random people I don't know, against my friends which have highly competitive lists and tend to list tailor especially against orks, local store "champions" and veterans. I never get tabled unless running an experimental list or suffering a streak of really bad dice(ever immobilized four battlewagons on turn one? That's rolling 8 's in a row). You are saying I'm lying or cheating. What else is there to discuss? You don't want advice, I'm not forcing it on you.
I'm just giving everyone else the advice to not run a sole one-dimensional list which is guaranteed to fail against at least two of the armies you will see at every grand tourney.

I wasn't expected resistance to such an extent that player will put forth that Ork wins equals better players.

Actually, you were the first one to bring that up. You are bringing no arguments at all besides "it works for me", "you are wrong" and personal attacks, while at the same time, you are putting forth that you have a terrible win/loss record and blame it all on the ork codex. Don't you see the problem in that? Advertising a list which is losing four out of five time as "working"?

The Truth is I consider myself very experienced with playing Orks, I have played Orks since Warhammer's creation. I was one of the original American play testers of this game. I have only played Orks. I have probably lost more games than most people on here have played. As far as people better than me - I no longer enter Tournaments and I know of probably 100 players that are "better" than me and they lose more than they win and aren't all Ork players.

"There's no fool like an old fool." You have just as much experience playing in 6th than anyone here. The guy who brought me to the game is playing orks ever since he bought gorka morka and basically is living in one of our FLGS - and he is probably the worst player I know. Every single one of his couple hundred orks looks better than most minis GW shows on their homepage though. When reading tournament reports on various 40k blogs looking at the success of my local ork players, orks usually place somewhere in upper midfield. I highly doubt that you actually know 100 ork players (especially since you suddenly came to know 60 since your last post) - I couldn't even name 40 competitive ork players, including people here on dakka. I couldn't name 40 players of any army. Not to mention pretty much anyone trying to field his old kan wall at the beginning of 6th pretty much got butchered, so even a realistic 10 players ending at bottom of a tournament isn't much of a surprise.

When you think about just players in a Tournament, almost all of them will have to lose at least once. So presenting that if winning equals experienced player. I will always say no way, if you play a list all the time that has never lost (especially Orks) then there has to be a reason for it, you know the answer.

I never said that I never lose. I just said that I lose less games than I win. If I go 3-1-1 at a tourney, I win more than I lose and probably place high enough to get a free box of boyz. I already agreed with you that orks are not a tournament winning army anymore, losing 80% of your games is not a codex issue.

But I will say, this tactic of using your battlefield as an advantage instead of a hindrance because you are relying on your KFF too much - will not win the game, but it might change your thinking on how to run a Green Tide List - which by what you've said you do not do.

Considering you didn't know what focus fire is before this thread, you can most like attribute that tactic's success to your opponents not knowing either. I experimented with dropping the KFF a lot during the beginning of 6th (dual warpheads, MA warbosses, replacing all nobz with minimal warboss, etc) because the mandatory 85 point tax annoys me. Whenever I did that, I started losing more games. Outside of tourneys with pre-setup tables you get an average of 12 terrain pieces on the table, if your opponent is playing competitively he will drop big ruins on your table edge of your table center or big, non-LoS blocking terrain right in the middle of the board, and distributes half of any other useful terrain along the table edges. This often leaves with as little as two or three terrain pieces to actually hide your green tide behind. Focus fire suddenly is a big problem, even if you get cinematic steel trees with 3+ cover. Now consider that two out of three deployments allow gunlines to deploy out of reach for turn two or three assaults, making you walk as much as 32" with a whooping three pieces of terrain. How are you hiding 120-160 orks behind that? You don't. It's physically impossible.

Edit: my spelling sucks

Jidmah, I never attacked you. I was presenting a new way to run Green Tide - I asked if others have done this. You obviously did not, but processed to continue to say that you can't run a green tide without a KFF. That's NOT why I posted this thread. I put it up because I ran orks in 2 games without a KFF - because it was the only way I could do this was without the use of a KFF.
Also read the quote you quoted me, it's not 100 ork players, because most aren't ork players. At your store you have some dominating Ork players, I get that. It doesn't change the fact that Ork are NOT competitive in 6th.
And because I mistake Focus Fire for something else doesn't mean I don't know what it was.
Thank you for your imput about Green Tide List, but you don't have any problems using a Big Mek KFF and do not want to try something different - I understand that. I would really like to hear from those players that do.

 Sleg wrote:
all I can say is you got to be kidding. you are either lying, not playing against people who understand their army list, or cheating. Because if you play Orks and have never been tabled then you are NOT playing Orks.

Yes, you really did say either he was lying or a cheater, or that his opponents don't know what they're doing.
Knowing Jidmah, none of those can be true.

Thanks rigeld

I am starting to think my posts only reach him by traveling through the warp and getting mutated in the process. He actually accused me of never having tried his suggestion, after thoroughly describing how I did try it and detailing why it failed.

Well, as ork players, why would you get along? Aren't we supposed to fight amongst ourselves until something better and more xeno comes along?

 Green is Best! wrote:
Well, as ork players, why would you get along? Aren't we supposed to fight amongst ourselves until something better and more xeno comes along?

I think that's exactly what's going on. but yes I will stand by it's one of 3 things, If you are not lying or cheating about how Super-dupper your Orks are in 6th edition - It has to be who you are playing. though 5 games really doesn't give much of a sense of how well your force list is, when you break 50 games with a list and still states that you are winning or tie with your games 4 out of 5 games, that's when I'll call shenanigans. And your one loss being because you rolled 8 1's, not because they just devastated your force, doesn't say much for your opponents. A better way would be they just out rolled me, I've rolled 5 1's on 8 dice on a single ramshackle - I wouldn't say it cost me the game. The Necron Player was the reason I lost the game, he rolled better and had a much better list.
If you stated that you ran a few green tide list without a KFF and you lost your test games. I'm sorry I missed that post, because you've only stated that you tend to do poorer with your test armies and obviously much better with your ready army.

For me I usually do better when someone is testing out their stuff. Orks being versatile allows other players to still play Orks but play totally different list, I have over 35 different ork list that I choose from. I only play friendly games so winning is rarely the actual goal, it's testing out things or having fun goofing around throwing a bunch of dice. But I do know that its hard to believe that I know over a hundred players and have played 40k in 9 countries, and even had articles written about me and playing orks. And here's the Old Fool saying something that you have already tested and dismissed because you are such a great player. But it's true and the Orks now are but a shadow of what they used to be. No Plasma, unless you count the KMB. The SAG with only 7 crazy rolls, instead of 36. I know that your skill with 6th has Blasted me for being narrow minded and I have to admitted I haven't once seen you write that Green Tide always gets caught in Terrain and I always use Terrain cover before using the 5+ cover from the KFF.
No you have actually called me a fool, stated that because I have lost games with the 4th edition Ork Codex, that I'm not doing it right. That I can't run a Green Tide without a KFF, because of two words: Focus Fire. And dismissed all of the rational arguments I have present in contrary to it. Then again you stated that my arguments are closed minded and limited, when you have been very clear that you do not use a Green Tide List without a Big Mek KFF and it would not even be worth thinking about.

Just remember I still have never attacked you, but you have been fairly blatant with your attacks directed at me as a person, instead of the Tactic of moving through Terrain and using it as an advantage.

I found KFF to be a waste of an HQ slot/points...

much better off with a couple warbosses outflanking with snikrot, and ahuge tide of orks coming up behind screening grots/more orks. Or somthing else anyways

I have 0 issues covering all vantage points to the units behind with a mob of 30 orks or grots (or even a units of bikes, which is smaller in #) for me, negating focus fire because all the models are behind intervening models, is easy as pie....

its rolling the 5/6's i need for run moves to get into CC on turn 3 thats the pain in the butt.

 Sleg wrote:

 Green is Best! wrote:
Well, as ork players, why would you get along? Aren't we supposed to fight amongst ourselves until something better and more xeno comes along?

I think that's exactly what's going on. but yes I will stand by it's one of 3 things, If you are not lying or cheating about how Super-dupper your Orks are in 6th edition - It has to be who you are playing.

Right, you are actually reinforcing that Jidmah is either a liar, a cheater, or a noobcrusher.
That's the right way to make friends and influence people.

instead of the Tactic of moving through Terrain and using it as an advantage.

That's what you've been rambling about? Moving through terrain is an advantage?
I'll be completely honest - your posting style is pretty damn illegible to me so forgive me if it's been this obvious all along...
If you're claiming that this "tactic" is some amazing thing that is letting you in 1/5 games... it's probably not Jidmah doing the noobcrushing.

Seriously, this is not some amazing revelation. It's like saying "Cover is good!". KFF just allows you to bring your cover with you.

Wow, that's a crazy thought of a Huge Building, plopped down in the middle of the board and Terrain on both sides Basically Bottlenecking your Orks or forcing them to run through the building or Trees and you might have a unit or 2 not getting the cover, because you are moving 6" and firing your big shootas, instead of just running them. the Slow down will cause 1 or 2 round loss before the Shootas fire.

How about this tactic for your opponent, that instead of spreading their units out, they deploy them all on one side and just devastate your flank, forcing you to move everything you have to one side of the board.

KFF saves 1/3 of wounds. which means that 6 wounds should remove 4 boyz on average. This doesn't account for Barrage, Ignores Cover, or invulnerable only saves.

If a single unit that can cause an average of 6 wounds per round against a single Ork Boyz unit, will remove 12 Boyz before overwatch and assault. (If they are in a Trukk, 1st turn they will cause the Trukk to ramshackle with 2 dice -taking the lowest) and then cause a LD roll every turn, until the unit routs or is gone. You still have your KFF, hopefully.

18 boys will get overwatched, 2 removed and then assault (No KFF save in melee). Unless you opponent who should charge them first (unless you do something crazy like go to ground in the shooting phase - no bonus to KFF cover - I suspect no one will do this), then if you still have your big shootas, that's 39 shots, 7 wound rolls, 5 saves. 1 model removed. Usually INT is about a 4 for your opponent. It's 3 for your boyz. Hammer strike - takes out 3 and their attack based on 8 in the units, takes out 9 boyz. Orks assault and get very lucky and remove 2 out of 7. the 6 left roll LD 5 or lower (unless you have a nob and it's 7 or lower). Lets say they stay for the Orks turn. Boyz can't shoot into melee, but they will assault them 5 in BTB and 11. You opponent dedicates 4 wounds to the 6 and the rest to the large boyz. Law of averages for the Boyz they will fail the LD and make the Bosspole re-roll bring their numbers to 2. But they only remove 2 from the 3nd unit of Orks. It could go like this for many rounds, in the end the Orks numbers should squeak them by, But once they remove that unit, they will get torn apart.

It's how it should work, but your opponent should be cleaver and remove one side of boyz, while causing the rest of the force to spend yet another turn (total of 4) trying to get into range. 4 Defkoptas (yes, I was wrong they have 2 wounds), all you need to do is take out one, 57% chance of making the morale save. At least with 5 they need to remove 2. They shoot like crap, missing half the time and then 50/50 they cause a wound.
Separate units (3 of them) become prey to All space marines, Tyranids, Tau, and Eldar.. If they shoot and only remove 1, There's the 2 others. Another will get removed by overwatch and the last one will be gone in assault, unlikely doing any damage with a 2 int, 1 with Buzzsaw. Might as well just take Bikes.

These examples are just par for the course - you don't need to roll badly in fact it's based on average rolling and when you throw a lot of dice, you tend to fall always right down the middle. So even against an so-so list from any other army. The Ork player must roll exceptionally well, your opponent rolls exceptionally badly, or both in order to triumph. But your average game should end with a loss. If you play exceptional players like you stated, your wins could be a 1 and your losses should be the rest, extremely rare that you'll tie out of 5 games.

rigeld2 wrote:

That's what you've been rambling about? Moving through terrain is an advantage?
I'll be completely honest - your posting style is pretty damn illegible to me so forgive me if it's been this obvious all along...
If you're claiming that this "tactic" is some amazing thing that is letting you in 1/5 games... it's probably not Jidmah doing the noobcrushing.
Seriously, this is not some amazing revelation. It's like saying "Cover is good!". KFF just allows you to bring your cover with you.

I'm sorry that I'm an illegible poster. But you are commenting on responses, as with all post, I'd like to direct your attention to the very first one.
saying it's just "cover is good" and we should use it, is simplifying the tactic, which is to move your Orks to gain intervening cover, without bottlenecking them into a kill zone and Brining more Orks, instead of taking 'toys', that usually do nothing to improve the effectiveness of the Green Tide. Yes, KFF brings your cover with you and I myself have just rolled the 5+ cover, instead of the 4+. With a KFF, the unit will never goto ground for cover if they are out in the open, because the KFF will not provide 4+ cover.

As far as making friends, unimportant. How the hell do we call each other friends? most responses are unfiltered words - I try to keep it friendly, but I do not like being dismissed because someone thinks I do not know how to play (which is probably true, but that's not part of the thread). I adore other peoples opinions and I always want to know why they have their opinion? I think it's funny that I'm called closed minded and don't like another opinion because there is no "why". I find a lot of post directed at me instead of the issue, I dislike players that use wins to mean they are better when they have played a total of 5 or 6 actual games. I will be the first to say I'm not an expert, but playing 1 game and This tactic failed, doesn't usually qualify as experience. I have won hundreds of games (not in 6th) and lost probably more (not in 6th). I would not qualify as a Nobcrusher. Then again the top 10 players in the US would plainly say they have lost more than they won, because this is a 1 on 1 game, someone has to lose for a winner. Even if you are not playing Orks.

So thank you for chiming in and coming to Jidmah's defence - it certainly looks like he needed the affirmation to delete previous post or edit them so he can be right. Personally, I'm just here to talk about the game. If you can't understand my post, oh well. If you ask, I'll try to do better at explaining it or simplifying it like I did for Jidmah. If I said something wrong, like DefKoptas having 1 wound instead of 2 or put the wrong definition to things like Focus Fire, I appreciate the correction.

If you're going Green Tide you aren't going to ground unless the unit is almost dead.

If you're just here for the game, what's the purpose with calling someone a cheater or liar?

I never called them a cheater or a liar. They made the claim that since I usually don't win with the Orks, there must be something wrong with my list. I looked at their eclectic list and realize that most other armies, should table them 3rd turn. They came back and said that they always win (later they stated that their win ratio was 3wins, 1 tie, 1 loss).
and again said that was the proof that my way doesn't work was that I usually lose. I was an inexperienced player and if II were to take a Green Tide I had to take a KFF for support, because there was no way I would get cover. I presented both the UK and USA statics on the Orks in 6th edition.

Again they said I must not be playing right, because at their local store with very experienced players, they still beat them all the time.

So there had to be 1 of 3 things going on. They are lying (because in their mind if they didn't win, their side of the argument would be wrong). The People they play with do not know how to use their army list (but they are experienced players) or they are cheating (Some people cheat without knowing it and some cheat because they have to win at all cost).

After he stated it was only 5 games and the reason he took a loss was because he rolled 8 1's.

Again, I never called him a cheater or a liar. I wasn't there when he won his 3 games. I can't confirm anything. He could have played 4 games and everything was coming up 6's. The people he was playing could have had the worst rolls. It's unlikely to happen more than once, and impossible to happen 4 out of 5 games. So there has to be something going on. I care only for the fact that his wins, makes my tactic wrong. If his wins didn't, I personally wouldn't care what he does in his games.

 Sleg wrote:
all I can say is you got to be kidding. you are either lying, not playing against people who understand their army list, or cheating. Because if you play Orks and have never been tabled then you are NOT playing Orks.

Sleg wrote:I never called them a cheater or a liar.

Really?

Regardless, instead of insulting another player and instantly doubting their integrity... How about you treat him with respect?
If you have an 80% loss percentage it's possible - just maybe - the problem isn't with the Ork codex.

 Sleg wrote:


For me I usually do better when someone is testing out their stuff. Orks being versatile allows other players to still play Orks but play totally different list, I have over 35 different ork list that I choose from. I only play friendly games so winning is rarely the actual goal, it's testing out things or having fun goofing around throwing a bunch of dice.

(unless you do something crazy like go to ground in the shooting phase - no bonus to KFF cover - I suspect no one will do this)

But your average game should end with a loss

35 lists? Even in the best of days in 5th, there were really only 3 lists. Even if you go for list tailoring you shouldn't need more than 10 lists ever. not that we really have any tailoring options.

And yes going 2 ground if you're 10 models or less does improve the KFF save. just like the stealth & shroud from night fighting improves the KFF save. The KFF is a cover save, anything that improves cover saves, improves KFF saves.

As for the win/loss records, the game has a rock/paper/scissors element to it.
Orks are the rock to the marines scissors, and Tau is our paper. so you can have 75%+ win records, Some are probably even at 90%+ with orks. That doesn't make them cheaters or playing against noobs, it just means they've won more than lost. And if you lose 80% of your games, that doesn't make your opponents cheaters, it just means they know how to pick a list to deal with orks and how to play that list strategically. Trying to read anything more into a win/loss record is just pure speculation. You probably have a list that could win 80% of it's games, but you'd never know you had a strong list as the other 34 dilute your record. Overall records really don't tell you anything, but if you really want to track a w/l record, track each list individually and by race played and the actual numbers. ie:

List 1:
ork vs chaos record 6-0-0
orks vs nids 2-2-2
orks vs tau 1-10
(made up numbers, I play for fun and have no actual data for a proper w/l ration.) The more information you track though, the better you can tailor your lists for what works and what doesn't. so you really can't make blanket statements like you did where you claim your average game should be a loss. my average games tend to go, against marines, necron & guard (win) against nids&tau (lose)

And koptas are worth their points in gold, they come on behind your enemies lines, so they can at a minimum get a side shot in, and sometimes a rear armor shot. Second, 1in6 missions they're scoring, in 5 they're denial units, that can move 12 and turbo boost 24 to contest objects and occasionally claim them. And against guard and eldar and other S3 T3 units, you can assault them with a single kopta and wipe out their unit. Charge, stay locked in combat so you can't be shot, hit and run 33% after your opponents assault phase to cause more problems elsewhere. At a minimum they come on the table and spook your opponent, he can't ignore koptas sitting in his lines and any shots he takes against them, he's not at shooting boys so they help more boys get across the table. The number of koptas is optional, but I suggest 4, sure you test after 1 loss instead of 2. But when your down to your last kopta, if you started with 4 it's a full LD, instead of And if you really like biker lists nothing spooks an opponent more than putting a biker boss in with the koptas on his flank.

Bah, you've got so many rules wrong I don't even know where to start.

So I concede. A actually did lie, and I don't own any orks at all. I borrowed an AOBR set once and crushed a poor sailor, who had only one arm, one leg, one eye, one tooth and could only count to three by slipping him dices which roll ones all the time. That's 100% win chance for me in orks, so I'm undefeated and thus am entitled to belittle anyone who isn't, as I'm clearly the superior ork player. Oh, and for vacation I go seal clubbing in the Antarctica. The kind where you kill baby seals, not the kind where you get to hang out with bunch of drunk cute animals at a club.

leg wrote:
all I can say is you got to be kidding. you are either lying, not playing against people who understand their army list, or cheating. Because if you play Orks and have never been tabled then you are NOT playing Orks.



Sleg wrote:I never called them a cheater or a liar.


Really?

Regardless, instead of insulting another player and instantly doubting their integrity... How about you treat him with respect?

Lets let this one drop peeps, its a really interesting read and thread, dont want to get it locked or banned.
A polite PM apologising and explaining the wording would be much better no?

I would, but considering his tendency to misread everything, putting words in my mouth I never said and continuously calling me a liar and cheater, I'll rather ignore him all together.

There is absolutely no point in trying to have a constructive discussion with someone who is quite obviously not able to do so.

I just hope no one believes the nonsense he is spouting and is unnecessarily losing games because this.

So thank you for chiming in and coming to Jidmah's defence - it certainly looks like he needed the affirmation to delete previous post or edit them so he can be right.

This is a blatant lie. I am terrible at spelling (funnily enough same type of spelling errors in both languages), and thus often edit my posts in order to increase readability.

 Ratius wrote:

leg wrote:
all I can say is you got to be kidding. you are either lying, not playing against people who understand their army list, or cheating. Because if you play Orks and have never been tabled then you are NOT playing Orks.



Sleg wrote:I never called them a cheater or a liar.


Really?

Regardless, instead of insulting another player and instantly doubting their integrity... How about you treat him with respect?

Lets let this one drop peeps, its a really interesting read and thread, dont want to get it locked or banned.
A polite PM apologising and explaining the wording would be much better no?

Indeed.

 Sleg wrote:

Maybe the problem is a lack of understanding what a Green Tide is. Here's my 1500, 160 Ork Tidal Wave, which is almost twice as large as my Original 83 model Tide.
HQ
110 Warboss (Cybork, PK, Attack Squig)
123 Big Mek (SAG, Burna, Ammo Runt, Bosspole)

Troop
300 10 Nobs (Painboy, 10 Cybork, Orderly, Waaagh Banner!, Bosspole)
4x195 30 Ork Boyz (Shootas, 3 Big Shootas)
135 20 Ork Boyz (Nob, Shootas, 2 Big Shootas)

Heavy Support
47 Big Gunz (Kannon, 3 Ammo Runt, 6 Extra Crew)

I agree, that list looks horrible.

My standard lists is usually a bung of shootas (3x30 or 3x20) kitted to the teeth.
Then I fill up the army with toys. I prefer bikes, kannons, lootas and dakkajet.

Just send something more scary in the face of your opponent and he might focus all his fire on that instead of your boyz.
And in the end, you will have more boyz alive reaching the objective or your opponents gunline thanks to the toys.

Jidmah mentioned a few big weaknesses in the Ork army. Soulgrinders, Hellturkeys (or any fliers), Blendernought and Purifiers.
If you make a tide army, you need to fill up the tactical gaps with some toys. You cant just put all the green eggs in one basket.

I dont use the KFF, this might be because how our terrain usually looks like compared to your FLGS. But I have a challange for all the KFF users.
Count every successfull coversave, multiply it with 6 and see if just more boyz wouldnt be a better option after all.
Lets assume your KFF is kitted with 130p (ouch). For the same price you could upgrade two 20 boy squads into 30 boys with an extra bigshoota.

For what its worth, my good friend plays orks in local RTTs and GTs. He's one of the better players I've played with. In my many games with him, this is what I've learned about the ork codex.

* 10 lootas going to ground behind a ADL are great. Your still hitting 50% as often as you were before and getting a 2+ cover. They also don't take a drawback to shooting at flyers

* Meganobs are win. He brings them in truuks. Hides them behind LoS terrain on turn one, then blasts them forward on turn 2. Even if I wreck them, the ramshackle rule is stupidly good

* Since we have been playing more with helldrakes, his lootas are going into a battlewagons more often as a firing platform. With more wave serpents int he game, I expect this trend to continue.

* He uses Ghaz all the time. Not only can Ghaz beat face in assault but his Waaaaagh trick is very helpful. He will often go to ground with his meganobs when getting shot at. People (like me) will then ignore them thinking they are out of the game for a turn. He then pop's Ghaz's Waaaaagh -- making the meganobs fearless who then hop back into the fight and proceed to beat my unsuspecting face in.

* Hes stopped bringing nob bikers. They are just having a hard time against cron air.

* He still brings 90 shoota boys. Sometimes he will swap out a squad of slugga boys, but its usually shoota boys with 3 big shootas. Hes recently started adding a nob back into the squads.

* He still brings one squad of grots. With helldrakes they are easier to burn off the table than they were before. Wave serpents will also make short work of them. As such he keeps them in reserve.

* Warbosses in mega armor are complete money. They are one of the best buys in the game today. Add a cybork body and attack squig and your rocking.

Overall, he's the one who has told me that 'Orks are in a bad spot right now'. Given the latest Tau and Eldar codex's I'm inclined to agree. The good news is that they will probably have a codex before the end of the year given GW's current release schedule!
I think the best use for orks today is as an ally. Bring 60 of them plus a warboss and you have some great objective campers.

You friend seems to be a great warboss

I haven't thought about the fearless trick, that's actually cute.

Do you know how he equips his nob? Full set with PK or boss pole only?

Hes been leaving the PK off lately. I've not seen him use it in the past few months.
I think he might have it in one squad to deal with soulgrinders, etc...

And yea, hes a very good warboss. I enjoy playing players like that because they make my game better.

That is some pretty sound advice for orks.

LabMouse always has the moar gooder ideaz.

Yes, there are a lot of problems running a Green Tide list. Like I said in the start post of this thread as to being slow and clunky. Presenting a working list is awesome, but when your numbers go down, there comes a point when you are no longer running Green Tide. Your list has another name, such as taking bikes would probably make them speed freaks, Taking Meks could be a Mekanik Special or Dread Mob. You wont be tailoring your list around the 3 units of Ork Boyz, you are bringing and once that happens, it's no longer green tide.

 Sleg wrote:
it's no longer green tide.

According to your definition. For many of us a "Green Tide" list involves the primary element of large squads of boyz but is not limited to just boyz.

The only acceptable "official" definition of a "Green Tide" would be the Apocalypse Formation, which includes, at minimum, 100 Boyz and a Warboss.

Your adherence to strictly the core of Ork Boyz is admirable, but is in no way the "definitive" or accepted meaning of Green Tide, both here (and most forums) and in the meta.

 Cryonicleech wrote:

You realize the weaknesses of this list right?
Purifiers will have a field day with your list, much less anything that can affect large units.
I see 1 Kannon, a SAG and the Warboss's Power Klaw (I'm not sure what the Nobz are armed with, but I don't see any Power Klaws)
How do you deal with Vehicles? Flyers? Anything, really.
While I understand the idea of literally drowning the opponent with Ork Boyz, by not taking anything to support these boyz you've created a very exploitable weakness. Everything in moderation, even Boyz. The list seems to lack answers to many threats in 6th and is entirely dependent on one gimmick.

Yes there are so many weakness with running a true green tide list, I don't know where to begin. But it has done exactly what it is suppose to do, It completely floods the battle field, it takes massive casualties and in the 1 of the test with this force it has won, just by the mere fact they couldn't kill enough of them. Big Shootas and Shootas work better than you think. The Boyz can take out most vehicles on a charge. That's right 1 Power Claw and it seems to be enough. Vector strike can't target model in melee and most flyers have 10 back, which shootas and Big Shootas can exploit with snap fire (6's only, instead of 5's and 6's).
Green Tide is most certainly a gimmick, but some player use it (or a least used to use it).

I'll be clear again, this is about using a Green Tide list, some players understand that it's about overwhelming with numbers instead of fire power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cryonicleech wrote:

The only acceptable "official" definition of a "Green Tide" would be the Apocalypse Formation, which includes, at minimum, 100 Boyz and a Warboss.

So my 83, list that only had 60 Boys and a Warboss. Would not have been a Green Tide. I'll agree to that.

 Sleg wrote:


I'll be clear again, this is about using a Green Tide list, some players understand that it's about overwhelming with numbers instead of fire power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cryonicleech wrote:

The only acceptable "official" definition of a "Green Tide" would be the Apocalypse Formation, which includes, at minimum, 100 Boyz and a Warboss.

So my 83, list that only had 60 Boys and a Warboss. Would not have been a Green Tide. I'll agree to that.

This is about using a Green Tide list.

So, then, if an army consists of, minimum, 100 Ork Boyz and a Warboss, it is a Green Tide, regardless of the extra toys that supposedly "don't belong" in the list.

Yes, it's about overwhelming with numbers. But that doesn't mean you can't bring firepower. They're not mutually exclusive.

 Cryonicleech wrote:

This is about using a Green Tide list.
So, then, if an army consists of, minimum, 100 Ork Boyz and a Warboss, it is a Green Tide, regardless of the extra toys that supposedly "don't belong" in the list.
Yes, it's about overwhelming with numbers. But that doesn't mean you can't bring firepower. They're not mutually exclusive.

Yes, my list consists of a SAG, a Kannon, and a PK. It also has a Nob unit hiding in there. I would never say you can't bring Firepower, I think I actually said there comes a point when you no longer have the numbers, that it can't be considered as a Green Tide List. So with another resounding YES! that's what I'm talking about. I never said you can't bring a KFF, I believe I have always said that for me, I stop taking into account that there is so much more Terrain cover that I don't use because I'll always just roll the 5+. Once I took away my (and mine alone) crutch I was amazed by how easy it was to still move (just as fast) down the field and in most cases I had better cover, instead of it just being terrain that is in my way.

I'm sorry if the revelation isn't new for most people and this tactic is so blasé, that I must have just started playing the Orks to have never seen or used that. But using it, even surprised the Chaos Marine player I was playing against and for the first time, I had boyz getting into melee. The Truth is a rarly put together a green tide list because most of the time, it takes way to long to set up, I need to get a second person (basically a bystander) to help and my results have always ended in complete disaster. This time I'm shooting a SAG - where did that come from? I'm bringing a ton more boyz (which I'm actually meeting and surpassing the min req for having a Green Tide and I could easily still make the min req if it were a 1k game.

So thank you.

Other than Ruins how are you getting better cover than a KFF?
1 model within range gives the whole unit cover, whereas relying on terrain means only the models in terrain benefit.

You're just not making sense.