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Longstrike is specifically allowed to fire overwatch more then once a turn. In his signature system it says:

Codex:Tau Empire, page 62 wrote: ... Furthermore, Longstrike's Hammerhead is not limited to firing Overwatch once each phase (it can still only fire Overwatch once against each eligible charging unit).

 nutty_nutter wrote:
not really, it makes sense to only allow a single overwatch vs no restriction on it on the basis that its possible to wipe out the first charging unit and then be charged again.

as has been pointed out, there is a character/unit that can initiate multiple overwatch attacks provided it is able to do so (not locked)

There is a restriction on it. Pg 21, "overwatch restrictions" makes it very clear that a unit can only fire overwatch once a turn. Longstrike is not a "pointless clarification", he is an intentional, deliberate exemption.

If the OP's reading is correct, that deliberate, intentional, exemption to the overwatch rules serves zero purpose, and was added knowing full well it could never be used.

I think you have misunderstood my stand point on this one maceria.

I'm aware that there is a restriction, I was providing a reason for that very restriction existence while also referring to an example that bypasses the restriction.

Rapture wrote:
Don't the overwatch rules expressly state that a unit may only fire overwatch once per assault phase?

Yes, they say exactly that.

JinxDragon wrote:
Actually Nutty,

I will need to review the matter again, but I believe there is an interesting loop hole as Longstrike is a vehicle and therefore impossible to lock into combat....

you make an interesting point. that being said p76 under the sub heading of charging a vehicle, if it is to be treated like charging any other unit then you can consider the unit 'locked' for that charge phase, vehicles just automatically removed the locked status at the end of the combat...at least that's how I look at it. otherwise there is no way of stopping longstrike from simply lol storming over all your chargers.

I didn't find anything about vehicles being locked in combat. What page is it on?

making a comparison between charging a normal (i.e. infantry unit) with the charging a vehicle rules on p76.

you basically have to come to some form of educated decision here, technically you cannot lock a vehicle onto the next turn but there is no rule saying that you 'cannot lock' a vehicle in close combat. (although this is starting to derail the thread somewhat even though it is related).

 nutty_nutter wrote:
making a comparison between charging a normal (i.e. infantry unit) with the charging a vehicle rules on p76.

you basically have to come to some form of educated decision here, technically you cannot lock a vehicle onto the next turn but there is no rule saying that you 'cannot lock' a vehicle in close combat. (although this is starting to derail the thread somewhat even though it is related).

But there is. Pg 76 under successive turns. A little oddly places, you would think that would be under the 'assaulting' heading.

That page also specifies that vehicle cannot, unless granted specific permission, fire overwatch. Longstrike is an exception to this, obviously.

Also nutty, apologies for misreading your argument, we may be on the same page here.

So, if i get charged (and don't shoot overwatched as this board claims) and it fails, that means i can shoot my weapons as normal next turn then right?

Because if that's the case, please charge me. I hope you fail it so i can pound you next turn with my weapons at full power.

I have to vote "no" on this poll. No such rule on pg12 exists. There is instruction on how to nominate a unit as part of the shooting sequence but as you do not nominate a unit to fire with for the over-watch rules this instruction has no baring on the matter.

yeah I'm with the OP on this one. You can only fire overwatch if you haven't already fired. Seems pretty straight forward to me and I gotta say this seems like the exact sort of thing GW would do. Sure the restriction to overwatch SEEMS useless until you realize that this is 6th edition and there is way more stuff coming in from reserves. This caveat was clearly designed to cut down on the amount of overwatch a Tau army can put out.

Also I think that if you go with the OP on this one it would add more, oh I don't know... realism?

Why should Tau get to fire overwatch illegally? They have so much of it anyways, what could it hurt if a unit is unable to fire overwatch? Oh wait right! I forgot that if Tau get into CC they melt and go from being Netlist Overlords to just another army!

Maybe that's why everyone wants to ignore the rules for a normal shooting attack. They play Tau. As far as I know the only time you get to fire a weapon twice is when your Failbrute rolls that one half decent crazed rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
So, if i get charged (and don't shoot overwatched as this board claims) and it fails, that means i can shoot my weapons as normal next turn then right?

Because if that's the case, please charge me. I hope you fail it so i can pound you next turn with my weapons at full power.

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Lol

darkcloak wrote:
yeah I'm with the OP on this one. You can only fire overwatch if you haven't already fired. Seems pretty straight forward to me and I gotta say this seems like the exact sort of thing GW would do. Sure the restriction to overwatch SEEMS useless until you realize that this is 6th edition and there is way more stuff coming in from reserves. This caveat was clearly designed to cut down on the amount of overwatch a Tau army can put out.

Also I think that if you go with the OP on this one it would add more, oh I don't know... realism?

Why should Tau get to fire overwatch illegally? They have so much of it anyways, what could it hurt if a unit is unable to fire overwatch? Oh wait right! I forgot that if Tau get into CC they melt and go from being Netlist Overlords to just another army!

Maybe that's why everyone wants to ignore the rules for a normal shooting attack. They play Tau. As far as I know the only time you get to fire a weapon twice is when your Failbrute rolls that one half decent crazed rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
So, if i get charged (and don't shoot overwatched as this board claims) and it fails, that means i can shoot my weapons as normal next turn then right?

Because if that's the case, please charge me. I hope you fail it so i can pound you next turn with my weapons at full power.

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? Lol

You didn't get what it was saying. The question is, If a tau unit fires under the interceptor rule, do they also get to fire overwatch?

I.E Tau vs SM. It's the SM turn. He deep strikes Terminators. My Broadsides have interceptor and fire at those terminators. Skip to the assault phase. He has SM combat squad nearby. He charges my Broadsides. Can my broadsides fire overwatch? That's the question. This board says that, no, they can not fire overwatch because it is the "next shooting phase". This would mean that after the overwatch phase, i should be free to fire those weapons in my normal shooting phase.

Well yes, because it's your shooting phase now, unless there are other restrictions to your firing, like moving with heavy weapons or something.

To me it sounded like you felt overwatch or interceptor restricted your firing in your turn.

darkcloak wrote:
Well yes, because it's your shooting phase now, unless there are other restrictions to your firing, like moving with heavy weapons or something.

To me it sounded like you felt overwatch or interceptor restricted your firing in your turn.

The interceptor rule states that whatever weapon you fired in after your opponent's movement phase, cannot be fired in your next shooting phase. So, as this board says, if the squad that used interceptor also gets charged, it cannot fire it's weapons as it is the "next shooting phase". Which should allow me to fire normally in my shooting phase assuming that i am not stuck in CC.

So really, it seems that this rule benefits Tau. If the charge fails, i get the advantage in terms of shooting.

The only unit this will probably effect is the Broadside, and Riptide. Either way, the chance for me to survive the charge is pretty high assuming they are not a breath away from me, and my other tau buddies are supporting me.

Even if i am not the target of the charge, but i am within supporting fire range, this still frees up my shooting phase because i had a chance to fire overwatch. So, assuming i have this right, this is beneficial if the charge fails for any reason.

Besides, the way i understand overwatch is that one unit can fire at one charging unit. So, if a SM squad charges me and i shoot overwatch at it. I cannot shoot at the second SM squad that charges if, say, the first one fails.

 DJGietzen wrote:
I have to vote "no" on this poll. No such rule on pg12 exists. There is instruction on how to nominate a unit as part of the shooting sequence but as you do not nominate a unit to fire with for the over-watch rules this instruction has no baring on the matter.

Also think this. The "nominate unit which hasn't fired" is done for you by the enemy charging & overwatch rules


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
So, as this board says, if the squad that used interceptor also gets charged, it cannot fire it's weapons as it is the "next shooting phase". Which should allow me to fire normally in my shooting phase assuming that i am not stuck in CC.

No the OP did not put it that way.
The rule in Q: is p12, under shooting: nominate a unit which has not shot this turn, but he says they did because of interceptor.
OP is saying if you intercept, you cannot overwatch AND cannot fire the gun next turn.
However as I quoted someone's very good explanation above: intercept stops you firing next turn BUT NOT over watching.

overwatch is not a shooting phase, it just uses a bunch of rules from the shooting phase.

interceptor prevents you firing the weapon in the following player turn (p38 BRB under interceptor, second paragraph), not the following phase regardless.

yes while it seems weird that they can fire interceptor AND overwatch in the same turn its just one of those weird interactions with the rules.

Agreed.

I'd like to point out that lack of nomination does not deny permission to shoot as I've seen stated in this thread. It withholds permission. The difference clearly being it does not deny, it simply does not permit units shooting attacks if they have not been nominated. Since permission to execute the attack is granted by Overwatch, nomination is irrelevant as you do not need any further permission. Overwatch also provides its own restrictions on said permission and though it does use shooting phase rules, it does so only for the purpose of resolving the attack... it does not need the 'normal' permission to proceed with the attack.

I think people are just thrown off by the bullet point sequence intended for the shooting phase. So the unit has already fired interceptor shots this turn and cannot be nominated. So what? The unit has already been given permission to execute a ranged attack by over watch, it does not need to obtain permission through nomination.

On another note I'm not convinced that nomination is actually a part of the attack. Just because it's on a list of required actions to accomplish the attack does not mean it is directly a part of that attack. In the assault phase you must choose a combat in order to make CC attacks. Does that make the selection part of a CC attack? Vis-a-vis nominating a unit to shoot? Nomination is just a means to select a unit for shooting. It is not itself part of the shooting attack, only a prerequisite that it normally must have.