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I think losing direct fire was the biggest hit for manticores.

Anyone gotten games in with the Deathstrike?


I found it was a great terror weapon in 5th more than anything, now it seems to be doubly so since it's actually somewhat reliable.

Unless I read it wrong you can fire it on a 3+ from Turn 2. It ignores cover on a blast that's now fixed and should put a decent sized whole in a lot of armies.

It's going to be a fire magnet, but it's also barrage, so you can hide it, or just stick it in cover and let it eat a bunch of anti-tank fire, taking pressure off the rest of your army.

 Leth wrote:
I think losing direct fire was the biggest hit for manticores.

Direct fire?

am i missing something?

the Deathstrike might be a lot of fun (just noticed APOC BLAST!) at least for fun casual games. i expect 90% of enemy armies to just invisibile and make me sad pandas.

As for T1, why not just reserve it and walk it on.

Unless I read it wrong you can't move and fire, and you also wouldn't get the bonus chance to fire the gun if you moved the turn before, so that would mean firing T3 on a 4+ (again my book isn't here so I could be wrong).

Oh your right. you no add +1 for each turn you moved and you cannot fire if you did move. :(

So might as well start it on board behind terrain. have a psyker near by with prescience and wreck some ones day T2

Just re-checked, it's +1 for every full game turn that it has not moved. So you get a 3+ on T2.

Doesn't say anything about not shooting, so you park it in the back in some cover then pop smoke T1 for that extra bit of protection.

Really I'd be happy if it ate a bunch of shooting in the first couple of turns while the rest of my army gets into ideal fire positions and on to objectives.

 Desubot wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I think losing direct fire was the biggest hit for manticores.

Direct fire?

am i missing something?

the Deathstrike might be a lot of fun (just noticed APOC BLAST!) at least for fun casual games. i expect 90% of enemy armies to just invisibile and make me sad pandas.

As for T1, why not just reserve it and walk it on.

Manticores may only fire indirectly which means that they cant get the bonus for BS and cant fire within their minimum range.

Well besides shooting the minimum range of 24" nothing i see say it may only shoot indirect.

Or is it a FAQ?

Isn't there a vortex warhead you can take on the Deathstrike via Apoc or IA that ignores EW and invulns? Does the whole 'removed from play' thing.

I was a bit confused about the Manticore not being able to direct fire too - I'm pretty sure that's not true, unless I missed something.

Its under the entry for storm eagle rockets, not the manticore entry itself

Storm Eagle Rockets are Barrage, but I can't find anything that says you can't fire them direct. As far as I know, normal Barrage weapons can fire direct AND at targets inside the Minimum range (the Min range is for indirect fire). What am I missing?

P136 of the ebook version:
"Storm eagle rockets cannot fire directly"

Oh crap! I never even thought to look there. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's p62 in the printed codex BTW.

Oh balls. Might not have to bother with them then.

That's an annoying place to put that rule.....

Welp if im fully scattering i guess ima try apoc blast deathstrikes for my troop removal.

How important is anti-air these days?

I'm looking to run about 1500 points

In my heavy slot I currently have 2x Eradicators and 2x Wyverns, I could also throw in a pair of Hydras.

I know they don't get interceptor, but they seem good against most air units, not to mention skimmers.

Also, are people taking Commissars? That new summary execution rule seems a bit troublesome, esp if you're trying to keep units like Las Cannon teams in IPSs in check

 More Dakka wrote:
How important is anti-air these days?

I'm looking to run about 1500 points

In my heavy slot I currently have 2x Eradicators and 2x Wyverns, I could also throw in a pair of Hydras.

I know they don't get interceptor, but they seem good against most air units, not to mention skimmers.

Also, are people taking Commissars? That new summary execution rule seems a bit troublesome, esp if you're trying to keep units like Las Cannon teams in IPSs in check

Depends on your meta, but generally past 1200~ points I always take two Vendettas. That may change if I ever build a squadron of Hydras, though really, the extra AT/Anti-MC of the Vendetta can save games. Its a difficult call.

There's two reasons to take Commissars.

1) In a Conscript blob with a power fist, you can tie up and whittle down MC's. I saw an example of this recently, seemed to work fairly well. The Priest makes the blob better at beating other infantry at melee though.

2) In a platoon blob where you plan to make use of orders but can't afford a better character, as you're getting LD9 instead of 7.

I don't take AA into account when building lists, my preferred way of dealing with air is to destroy it if an opportunity presents itself or to attempt to mitigate its effectiveness.

However as noted above, taking Vendettas is a very safe and efficient choice. There is no flyer in the game that will single-handily throw a wrench in your game-plan, but they are still a popular unit type and can be annoying. Vendettas are nice because you can use them for anti-armor just as well as for air-superiority.

 Mr.Omega wrote:


2) In a platoon blob where you plan to make use of orders but can't afford a better character, as you're getting LD9 instead of 7.

Just to point out a usual infantry squad got a Sarge, meaning it's Ld8 rather than 7. +1 Ld, stuborn, krak and WS4 is still worth it not to mention a better pistol and another possible power weapon

For AA, I used the flakk missiles a couple of times, it's a cheap way to get anti-air; keeping in mind that
1-I already used missile launcher, so it's a +10 pts rather than +25
2-I had them in vet squads, as a single shot better hit the target.

The more I look at it the more appealing a pair of Hydras is for the points. There's a lot of air targets out there, including skimmers. And with a total 8 shots TL it should be able to average a couple of hits on ground targets per-turn if nothing else.

Just considering the proliferation of FMC's and Wave Serpents to name a few.

Pretty sure the Hydra isn't effective against skimmers anymore because of their rules change, might be wrong though.

I've been considering buying a pair and making a nifty little 150 point guaranteed AA unit, but I like the Wyvern too much to justify not building it, heh.

Honestly, if you've got the kit and the points, a Vendetta will probably serve you well, if not better, than a Hydra. Three twin-linked las-cannons have a better chance of wrecking/blowing up/forcing wounds on FMCs anyway.

 Frankenberry wrote:
Pretty sure the Hydra isn't effective against skimmers anymore because of their rules change, might be wrong though.

I've been considering buying a pair and making a nifty little 150 point guaranteed AA unit, but I like the Wyvern too much to justify not building it, heh.

Honestly, if you've got the kit and the points, a Vendetta will probably serve you well, if not better, than a Hydra. Three twin-linked las-cannons have a better chance of wrecking/blowing up/forcing wounds on FMCs anyway.

Hydras still fire normally against skimmers.

An idea like that; instead of using up our own Heavy Support slot instead of Russes or Arty, why not fall back on the Marine's AA weapon? Ally with a marine unit and get a Stalker? same price, but BS4, and you can fire at two target for a price of a lower BS and no twin-link.

What does everyone think of running imperial knights with Am support work well ?

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
An idea like that; instead of using up our own Heavy Support slot instead of Russes or Arty, why not fall back on the Marine's AA weapon? Ally with a marine unit and get a Stalker? same price, but BS4, and you can fire at two target for a price of a lower BS and no twin-link.

Because then you need an HQ and a troop for the marines as well.

Too pricy indeed though you do get access to storm guppys and flying bricks which work well as additional anti air.

Honestly the best non HS anti air unit i can think of would be the totally awesome firestorm rebutt, its two quadlascannons that can get upgraded to BS3 and ammo dump. chuck a unit inside with some heavy weapons and you are set.

Need some input on a 1500 tourney list, tried getting help from the list forum but it's hard to get traction over there.


HQ

Pask Punisher
MM sponsons
Hull LC
Camo netting

LR Executions
Plas Sponsons
Hull LC

Troops

Vet Squad
3x Melta
Chimera

Vet Squad
3x Melta
Chimera

Fast

Vendetta

HS
2x Hydras
2x Wyverns
2x either Vanquisher with LC hull or 2x Eradicator with 2x HB sponsons.

What do you guys think? I can take or leave the Hydras and/or the Vendetta frankly.

Seems relatively solid of a base.

Personally Id get rid of the 2 hydras, pop the camo netting, and the hull Las off the executioner, and 1 melta each off the vet squad for 1 more vendetta edit: since vendettas can do double time as anti tank/elite

as you wont be shooting 3 off the top (IIRC)

Id go with the vanquisher instead of the eradicator as you already have wyverns.

 More Dakka wrote:
Need some input on a 1500 tourney list, tried getting help from the list forum but it's hard to get traction over there.


HQ

Pask Punisher
MM sponsons
Hull LC
Camo netting

LR Executions
Plas Sponsons
Hull LC

Troops

Vet Squad
3x Melta
Chimera

Vet Squad
3x Melta
Chimera

Fast

Vendetta

HS
2x Hydras
2x Wyverns
2x either Vanquisher with LC hull or 2x Eradicator with 2x HB sponsons.

What do you guys think? I can take or leave the Hydras and/or the Vendetta frankly.

I like it, very similar to what I run in one variation or another.

If you're going to go Vendettas, drop the hydras and score a second Vendetta somehow (maybe drop 2 meltas?). For the heavy support, I'd take a mixture of maybe a Vanquisher and an Exterminator or Punisher, good for popping transports and then using the second tank for murdering the occupants.

Either way: What Desubot said

Speaking of fun time vendettas.

I also put up a list that isnt gaining any traction

but i think it be fun think itd be ok?

1500 points IG with MT second cad

CCS with a MoO, OotF in a Chimera with relic plating and SL
2 LV 2 Psykers
Vet squad with an auto cannon
2nd vet squad with demolitions and 3 meltas
a Valkery with LC and MRP

3 Vendettas (two will need to be squadron)

then MT PCS with 4 plasma guns

and 2 Infantry squads with double meltas and double plasmas

Seeing as they have Move through cover, i could grav insert them anywhere T2 without worrying about scatter then obliterate nearly anything i want with PE or Rending orders.