Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
DLord doesn't fit in a night scythe anymore, unfortunately.

it didn't in the first place

bodazoka wrote:
Straight up (without artifacts or upgrades) I think wraith's are the most durable non vehicle units in the codex.

You can however get around 2.5 flayed ones for the cost of 1 x wraith.

Point for point I am not sure who is better, wraiths or flayed ones... would love to see someone mathahmmer "Flayed wing" (Fling?) against "Wraithwing"

So i got curious and did some math. Please correct me if im wrong.
(Note: these are without upgrades or taking into account synergies with other units/formations. The wraiths do have rending for on a result of 6 on a To Hit roll, it's an automatic wound at AP2.)
(Edit: type: meant to say WS4 instead of BS4 and corrected mistake for wraiths during wound count)
(Edit2: Also wraiths are now beasts and no longer get HoW)

xpress907 wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Straight up (without artifacts or upgrades) I think wraith's are the most durable non vehicle units in the codex.

You can however get around 2.5 flayed ones for the cost of 1 x wraith.

Point for point I am not sure who is better, wraiths or flayed ones... would love to see someone mathahmmer "Flayed wing" (Fling?) against "Wraithwing"

So i got curious and did some math. Please correct me if im wrong.
(Note: these are without upgrades or taking into account synergies with other units/formations. The wraiths do have rending for on a result of 6 on a To Hit roll, it's an automatic wound at AP2.)

Nice chart, but I'm pretty sure you counted the wraiths as S4. If they get 6 hits against a T4 opponent that should generate 5 W and 1 rend (the rend being one of the 5 wounds)

A pack of 20 Flayed ones is amazingly durable, and hard hitting. They Just Shred Stuff in Melee.

The issue with them, is you are either pigeonholed into deepstriking, or footslogging slowly across the board.

The Math has been done in the N&R Thread, and FOs pretty much (easily) beat anything in combat, with the exception of things they cannot wound.

 Sasori wrote:
A pack of 20 Flayed ones is amazingly durable, and hard hitting. They Just Shred Stuff in Melee.

The issue with them, is you are either pigeonholed into deepstriking, or footslogging slowly across the board.

The Math has been done in the N&R Thread, and FOs pretty much (easily) beat anything in combat, with the exception of things they cannot wound.

Footslogging isn't so bad when you consider infiltrate will get you a minimum of 6" closer, and for the measly "tax" of one unit of warriors and a unit of tomb blades over a standard cad, that nice big blob of reanimated killyness has 4+ Super-FNP. You yourself have said tomb blades are hardly a tax at all and at 13 ppm, FO's are a steal. If you're worried about durability, invest a few points in the Overlord you have to bring regardless and tank away. I don't see that unit as being easy to remove at all, especially if you have a unit of 4+ RP Wraiths bearing down on the opponent. Now that's a good one-two punch. Necrons do assault like BA, SW, CSM, and Daemons only wish they could.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
DLord doesn't fit in a night scythe anymore, unfortunately.

it didn't in the first place

It definitely use to. Unfortunately, I think he's right that that has changed, though.

 astro_nomicon wrote:

xpress907 wrote:

bodazoka wrote:
Straight up (without artifacts or upgrades) I think wraith's are the most durable non vehicle units in the codex.

You can however get around 2.5 flayed ones for the cost of 1 x wraith.

Point for point I am not sure who is better, wraiths or flayed ones... would love to see someone mathahmmer "Flayed wing" (Fling?) against "Wraithwing"

So i got curious and did some math. Please correct me if im wrong.
(Note: these are without upgrades or taking into account synergies with other units/formations. The wraiths do have rending for on a result of 6 on a To Hit roll, it's an automatic wound at AP2.)

Nice chart, but I'm pretty sure you counted the wraiths as S4. If they get 6 hits against a T4 opponent that should generate 5 W and 1 rend (the rend being one of the 5 wounds)

thanks, fixed the mistake

But yeah, Flayed Ones are straight up amazing against anything T7 or less.

Just thought of this as a concept base ::

Decurion base, with 2 pt upgrades on the TBs 485

Triarch Formation x 3, with 3x5 VB/PC and 3x5 Rod

1700 points that leaves some points to swap weapons on the Stalkers and upgrade to Olord. Maybe up the TBs or get some extra TPs.

Pretty nasty, though. 30 T5 3+/4+ RP wounds + 20 T4 4+/4+ RP wounds and 5 T4 3+4+ RP wounds.. You could split the Stalkers up with each troop selection allowing you to still spread out, and giving each one BS 5.

Oh, and obviously you would put two of each weapon profile with each Stalker, and having one formation split, to best maximize your formation abilities. 10 VB/PC guys should tear right through a Knight, even with striking last.

Wraiths are beasts now, they don't get hammer of wrath.

And won't the wraiths still be more durable than the flayed ones?

More durable on a 1 to 1 easily. Flayed ones have numbers and way more damage from the looks of it. What are the things we can give to a destroyer lord and stick in a flayed one unit to make it even nastier?

Voidreaper, Res Orb

How about this for a brick base ::

Mehpryt formation.

Mephryt Dynasty Cohort

Tank Olord + Phylactery + Phase Shifter + Thermasite + Nightmare Shroud + Res Orb ( 205 )
Cryptek + Chronomotron + Res Orb ( 115 )

20 Warriors + GA ( 365 )

10 Warriors + GA (235)

10 Warriors + GA (235)

1155

You get the virtually unkillable Olord (saving like 98% of all AP 3 or worse wounds, and 87.5% of AP 2 or better (95% when the RO is popped).

And 20 Warriors with 4+/5++ RP 4+ withe rerolls to 1s, backed by 3 GAs. In short, nobody is taking that gak down.

70 Gauss Shots at 24+ range gives you a solid start on anti vehicle (almost 8 HPs per turn). Pair that up with some Stalkers for good measure.

I don't know, though, is it worth losing OS on those units for the Re-rolls to 1s RP? It sure would be nice for that rock hard brick to have OS.... hmmm...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Oberron wrote:
More durable on a 1 to 1 easily. Flayed ones have numbers and way more damage from the looks of it. What are the things we can give to a destroyer lord and stick in a flayed one unit to make it even nastier?

Yeah, they come out pretty close, now. With the 5+ RP they are pretty close to even against bolter fire, particularly if you are giving the Wraiths Whip Coils (3 Whip Wraiths =10 FOs, roughly). It takes 54 bolter hits to kill 3 Wraiths, which would kill 9 FOs. The FOs pull substantially ahead with the 4+, and obviously even more so with a Res Orb or rerolls to 1s.

AP 3 and better will obviously favor the Wraiths a bit, but S7 will favor the FOs, S8/9 the Wraiths (unless the RP is being boosted for the FOs), and S10 FOs. But all and all it's pretty close between the two, at base, with the FOs being able to pull away with RP buffs.

What do you think the best unit is to put an Overlord in?

He's primarily a CC lord, so Lychguard?

I think so, especially since you can use him to teleport.

Alright so a quick glance over the book here:

Tomb Blades can get 3+ armor +1 cover and ignore cover from upgrades. They can take a 2 point upgrade for a S6 blast. literally 10 S6 blast that ignore cover could wreck the only real threat to wraith spam... horde orks.


Super Heavy and Heavy vehicles now getting a 6+ IWND is fun. The Tesseract Vault got better as it now has 4 tesla spheres effectively making it the obselisk but with the Ctan add on. I could see this vehicle in a good number of necron list.

Immortals are the new MSU troop choice.

I have difficulty finding a unit that I would not take in this new book. It reminds me of 5th edition grey knights. Ide say scarabs are the only thing I would not take atm as they are 20pts a pop. Other then that this book can get very scary really fast.

 Tomb King wrote:
Alright so a quick glance over the book here:

Tomb Blades can get 3+ armor +1 cover and ignore cover from upgrades. They can take a 2 point upgrade for a S6 blast. literally 10 S6 blast that ignore cover could wreck the only real threat to wraith spam... horde orks.


Super Heavy and Heavy vehicles now getting a 6+ IWND is fun. The Tesseract Vault got better as it now has 4 tesla spheres effectively making it the obselisk but with the Ctan add on. I could see this vehicle in a good number of necron list.

Immortals are the new MSU troop choice.

I have difficulty finding a unit that I would not take in this new book. It reminds me of 5th edition grey knights. Ide say scarabs are the only thing I would not take atm as they are 20pts a pop. Other then that this book can get very scary really fast.

Agreed, almost every entry is juicy. Very cool.

can flayed ones get a night scythe now?

No, deep strike and infiltrate still.

Nope. They don't really need one though, with DS and infiltrate.

Yeah Flayed Ones are pretty insanely good and I think people need to get with it because their that crazy good.

The army actually has a great number of shooting and a great number of Assault units, the only problem..

There's no really great way to get Lychguard into CC.

I mean it's 255 for the Nightscythe for them and they get to transport on board but otherwise no real way to get them into assault and quickly.

Teleport them over turn one with a Veil character, if you combine with an infiltrating FO squad or two that should be pretty hard to avoid entirely.

Yeah that's what my list does that I posted previously Veil Lord Destroyer Lord. Didn't add Flayed Ones though.
Then you just back that up by Wraiths.A Decked out Nigh Invulnerable D lord is the best.

D-Lord with Veil of Darkness , Phylactery , Phase Shifter , Warscythe , Nightmare Shroud will run you 200+

However, he's 2+ , 4+ , 5+, then 5+ It Will not di

6 to 8 LychGuard

Teleport that into your opponents path.

Ooeh, Monoliths did get changes!
Their weapons are now S5AP4 instead of S4AP5 which is quite good.

And they lost the Portal to Exile-ability.
I just don't get that. Buff Wraiths and nerf Monoliths? What were they thinking..

Good news.. For some reason I always believed AB's were 130 points now.
Seems like that is incorrect.

Has anyone noticed that Orikan the Diviner gives his unit re-rolling saving throws of 1? Specifically saving throws, not reanimation. Lychgard with 3++ (re-roll 1s)/4+++ (re-roll 1s)!

This allows for a LOT of re-rollable 2+ saves; Nightmare Shroud, Zahndrek, Imotekh etc.

@hollismason-The D-lord you have there is really durable but way too expensive for what he brings IMO. Hes 200+ points to teleport and survive, he doesn't really add much to a unit anymore IMO. MSS MADE destroyer lords because they invalidated the things that counter necron CC units. Now the CC units are all so much better they don't even need him lol.

Just got the book. The destroyer cult requires a minimum of 9 basic destroyers (3x3) to use. Lame. I'm thinking that the decurion is just to restrictive to use despite the benefits.

Yeah. I would probably take a Lord with Veil and Solar Staff as a teleporter. Jump over and protect the unit he's ferrying around from shooting for one turn. And that kit is pretty affordable.

I think the Decurion is there to make fluffy armies (such as Destroyer Cults) usable.

 buddha wrote:
Just got the book. The destroyer cult requires a minimum of 9 basic destroyers (3x3) to use. Lame. I'm thinking that the decurion is just to restrictive to use despite the benefits.

What where is this restriction listed? Afaik destroyers are 1+ per unit.