Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

*reads last page thinking maybe there was some news*

Err, nope, so we've just given up any pretence that this is a News and Rumours thread and gone straight to wishlisting?

At this point it is pretty clear that some people want an actual new edition, while others want the same nineties stuff that they already own reprinted exactly as it is.

That's a dishonest way of putting it, but sure...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
That's a dishonest way of putting it, but sure...

But yeah, I think we shouldn't expect anything on this prior to Warhammer Fest. If Forgeworld feels inclined to announce Necromunda or share any news of upcoming releases at all, they wouldn't spoil anything before then.

 Crimson wrote:
At this point it is pretty clear that some people want an actual new edition, while others want the same nineties stuff that they already own reprinted exactly as it is.

Lol.

At this point it's pretty clear some people want Necromunda v3, and others want a completely different game, but for some reason still want it to be called Necromunda.

 Taarnak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
At this point it is pretty clear that some people want an actual new edition, while others want the same nineties stuff that they already own reprinted exactly as it is.

Lol.

At this point it's pretty clear some people want Necromunda v3, and others want a completely different game, but for some reason still want it to be called Necromunda.

The issue about the setting is completely fair. If it is not about gang warfare on Necromunda, it is not Necromunda. The rules are completely different matter, there is really no sensible reason to stick to antiquated 2E 40K mechanics. Necromunda was a 40K spin-off and was based on 40K rules as they were then; similarly Necromunda made today, should be based on current (or soon to be current) 40K mechanics. Some people have serious rose-coloured glasses thing going on with 40K 2E rules; I too have a lot of nostalgic memories about that ruleset (and the spin-offs, mainly Gorkamorka in my case) but really, it is not that great ruleset and I really have no desire to use it any longer.

 Crimson wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
At this point it is pretty clear that some people want an actual new edition, while others want the same nineties stuff that they already own reprinted exactly as it is.

Lol.

At this point it's pretty clear some people want Necromunda v3, and others want a completely different game, but for some reason still want it to be called Necromunda.

The issue about the setting is completely fair. If it is not about gang warfare on Necromunda, it is not Necromunda. The rules are completely different matter, there is really no sensible reason to stick to antiquated 2E 40K mechanics. Necromunda was a 40K spin-off and was based on 40K rules as they were then; similarly Necromunda made today, should be based on current (or soon to be current) 40K mechanics. Some people have serious rose-coloured glasses thing going on with 40K 2E rules; I too have a lot of nostalgic memories about that ruleset (and the spin-offs, mainly Gorkamorka in my case) but really, it is not that great ruleset and I really have no desire to use it any longer.

Fair enough, I suppose. I would point out two things though:
1. Shadow War : Armageddon is based on the original Necromunda rules and seems immensely popular. So popular, even GW were apparently taken by surprise. The rule updates with an expanded campaign system would seem to be something that many people want, or would accept as an update to Necromunda.

2. I admittedly haven't drilled down on the 40K 8th information, but it seems to be a permutation of 7th and not a radical redesign. And since you appear to have been in this hobby for a bit, you are likely well aware that 7th is a changed version of 6th, which is a changed version of 5th, etc. right down to 2nd itself being a changed version of Rogue Trader. Not sure that clamoring for new updated rules is useful when the rules haven't had a major change since the 80's...

I don't personally care nearly as much about the rules as I do the setting, however. I really hope they don't set it somewhere else, or change the aesthetics of the gangs. I do hope the gangs all get updated plastics. I also hope they consider doing Arbites and including Outlander gangs in some way. It would also be cool if they added Hive Brats from Confrontation, maybe as an addition to Spyrer Gangs (and get rid of the seriously bad Matriarch and Patriarch)... So I guess what I'm saying is that I too want an update to things. Update, not radical change. Now get off my lawn!

 Taarnak wrote:
2. I admittedly haven't drilled down on the 40K 8th information, but it seems to be a permutation of 7th and not a radical redesign. And since you appear to have been in this hobby for a bit, you are likely well aware that 7th is a changed version of 6th, which is a changed version of 5th, etc. right down to 2nd itself being a changed version of Rogue Trader. Not sure that clamoring for new updated rules is useful when the rules haven't had a major change since the 80's...

Uhhh…
8th edition 40k is a total redesign. Like I alluded to in my post querying the suitability of 8th edition for use in a skirmish type game, the initiative stat is gone in 8th, though they have resurrected Movement. Equally, Morale is d6+losses vs the units Ld and failing means models disappear rather than units running away wholesale.
There are a whole bunch of other changes too, some of which borrow just as heavily from WAoS as the morale bit, like alternating unit activation in close combat replacing initiative.
Fundamentally though, it's a unit vs. unit battle level game rather than a model vs. model skirmish game, which is why I don't think it would be suitable for use in a Necromunda update without some hefty changes.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
2. I admittedly haven't drilled down on the 40K 8th information, but it seems to be a permutation of 7th and not a radical redesign. And since you appear to have been in this hobby for a bit, you are likely well aware that 7th is a changed version of 6th, which is a changed version of 5th, etc. right down to 2nd itself being a changed version of Rogue Trader. Not sure that clamoring for new updated rules is useful when the rules haven't had a major change since the 80's...

Uhhh…
8th edition 40k is a total redesign. Like I alluded to in my post querying the suitability of 8th edition for use in a skirmish type game, the initiative stat is gone in 8th, though they have resurrected Movement. Equally, Morale is d6+losses vs the units Ld and failing means models disappear rather than units running away wholesale.
There are a whole bunch of other changes too, some of which borrow just as heavily from WAoS as the morale bit, like alternating unit activation in close combat replacing initiative.
Fundamentally though, it's a unit vs. unit battle level game rather than a model vs. model skirmish game, which is why I don't think it would be suitable for use in a Necromunda update without some hefty changes.

It's still a permutation of the same old gak. Same underlying rules from what, admittedly little, I've read. I could be entirely wrong. I do think, however, that you have a different definition for "total redesign" than I do.

Going from 40K to Starship Troopers would have been a total redesign. New concepts all around. Adjusting how things work is not a total redesign. It doesn't have the radical departure from the familiar that, for example, Age of Sigmar seems to have had from Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

So, that's where I'm coming from, just to be clear. Also, I suppose this whole tangent is off topic, so I'll drop it from here out.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:
At this point it's pretty clear some people want Necromunda v3, and others want a completely different game, but for some reason still want it to be called Necromunda.

I don't think n this is at all fair, but if you think it's only Necromunda if it has exactly the same rules, setting, and gangs that's your prerogative, but I have to ask why you need anything new, anyway?

I like the concept of the original rules. Combat between small groups, with more detail than 40K, and a system for upgrading your group between games. I'd rather see new, better rules that do these things than just a reprint if the old rules, otherwise why bother?

I see no need to change the setting, but we have to remember Necromunda is already a huge place. Plenty of room for new things.

Finally, the gangs. I've got a nostalgic affection for the original gangs, but you have to admit most of the are very much dated. Rather than just resculpt the Goliath, Eshers, Orlocks, etc. I'd love to see new gangs. After all, there are At least a half dozen hive cities on Necromunda, each home to a trillion or more inhabitants. Surely there are more gangs than we have seen? In the whole wasteland more Outlandars than we have seen. In the upper levels more adventurers, thrill seekers and other upscale types that we don't know yet? Sure, include the rules to play the "legacy" gangs but give us new sculpts of new gangs to play, too.

 mdauben wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:
At this point it's pretty clear some people want Necromunda v3, and others want a completely different game, but for some reason still want it to be called Necromunda.

I don't think n this is at all fair, but if you think it's only Necromunda if it has exactly the same rules, setting, and gangs that's your prerogative, but I have to ask why you need anything new, anyway?

That was me poking fun at the message I quoted in that post.

As to the rest, I mostly agree with you. Read my other replies.

~Eric

I would rather see an updated version of the rules for the original Necromunda than see a version that tries to use the editions of 40K from 3 on up - in spite of the fact that for a large scale wargame, I vastly prefer 3rd edition to 2nd. (For that matter, I vastly prefer 3rd to 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th....)

For a small scale skirmish game, 2nd allowed a lot more detail, while 3e was much more streamlined, and handled structures and vehicles in a much saner manner.

That said - if they can make a more balanced version of those older rules, I would be quite happy. (More accurately, the lists for the gangs themselves - not all gangs are created equal, and some gangs could pull into the lead early on, then hold on to that lead. And then... there were Spyrer gangs.... Grrrrr.)

A completely new set of rules that allow that same level of detail would also be quite fine with me.

The Auld Grump - playing a quick one shot game tonight, so that Megan can get some hands on experience before we attempt a campaign.

The old rules were solid, and just how solid can be seen by how many subsequent games took them and tweaked them: Gorkamorka, Mordheim, Frosgrave, and many others. Most of the issues were caused by strict adherence to 40K rules at the expense of a balanced skirmish game: parries were too good, the lasgun was the best basic weapon, other weapons weren't worth taking at all. We house-ruled them all years ago, which is all you really need. A cleaned-up re-balanced version of the original Necromunda might be great fun. In particular I'd like to see all the skills re-worked from the ground up. I'll be a lot less interested in something largely new using the same setting.

The rules for Necromunda (and Mordheim and Gorka) have not held up particularly well. It feels clunky and old fashioned. It's IGO UGO and has a lot of D6 rolling followed by further D6 tables for different effects. It's classic GW rules design.

I think there are more modern takes on the same concept that could be the inspiration for updated rules (e.g. "This is not a Test", "Deadzone", "Infinity"). The single main thing I would look to change is activation away from IGO UGO and towards alternating activation, random activation or something else.

Was there ever a version of Necro with 3rd+ edition rules for shooting?

I always liked rules like rapid fire and cover saves over range modifiers.

plessiez wrote:
The rules for Necromunda (and Mordheim and Gorka) have not held up particularly well. It feels clunky and old fashioned. It's IGO UGO and has a lot of D6 rolling followed by further D6 tables for different effects. It's classic GW rules design.

I think there are more modern takes on the same concept that could be the inspiration for updates rules. The single main thing I would look to change is activation away from IGO UGO and towards alternating activation, random activation or something else.

Well not that 8th ed changes turn order and is rolling d6 on very narrow range band most of the time(3+ to 5+). Also has tons of rules like leadership that needs to be redesigned from scratch.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Was there ever a version of Necro with 3rd+ edition rules for shooting?

It's always been a 2nd Ed game.

Given there's no actual news or rumours since page 1 and this is all arguing and wishlisting maybe a mod could close until there is more news? I keep clicking in when thisbthread surfaces and there's nothing that would be relevant to the N&R section any time.