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I wouldn't be surprised if the "new" xenos race turns out to be the Ynnari getting their own range, with a distinct look.

Theres plenty of mercenary races in thr background for them to expand upon, and some FF games ones they could use. Isnt there an emergent alien empire in the Segmentum Pacificus that makes the Tau look like a bunch of wimps in terms of threat and scale?

Hoping for a new Horus Heresy boxed set with plastic Mark v Heresy armour and Plastic jetbikes/land speeders (maybe Emperors children) vs. megarachnids who will get rules for 40k as well

 Crazyterran wrote:
Theres plenty of mercenary races in thr background for them to expand upon, and some FF games ones they could use. Isnt there an emergent alien empire in the Segmentum Pacificus that makes the Tau look like a bunch of wimps in terms of threat and scale?

To be fair anything that can get its head up in the Grim 40K millennium has to be pretty darn powerful. Humanity already swept across a huge portion of the Universe cleansing the Xeno filth and where they are not there are Orks, Tyranids and Chaos as major factions that can threaten whole systems. Necrons are also a slumbering beast that could arise from the depths of a world without warning.

So you kind of have to fluff-protect a faction to get them stand up against the established fluff that has all but crushed most serious opposition.

Tau got some big warp storms and some sneaky hinted Eldar protection; plus I think they've steadily increased the capacity of their space ships so that they are comparable and capable (least the Imperial Fleet simply swats them like a fly)

No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

 ekwatts wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

You know they can't.

Sculptor time is limited.
Release windows are limited.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited.

A new Necromunda means a big box release and then weeks for any additional gangs and factions.

So a big release for existing lines or new factions has to compete with upcoming AoS, 40k, Necromunda and whatever else is coming. And there's only 3 months till Christmas. So no, they can't do both.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

You know they can't.

Sculptor time is limited.
Release windows are limited.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited.

A new Necromunda means a big box release and then weeks for any additional gangs and factions.

So a big release for existing lines or new factions has to compete with upcoming AoS, 40k, Necromunda and whatever else is coming. And there's only 3 months till Christmas. So no, they can't do both.

They need to update Chaos, Eldar some orks, Chaos, Eldar, CHAOS, ELDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR............






ABBADON1!!!111111!!!!!

Everyone is looking at the big skull and skipping the small one on top. Proof that Squats are coming back.

Does anyone think that 'new race' might be some kind of pun? I seem to recall something by Lady Atia which implied it was a joke and the 'race' in question was 'a contest of speed' rather than 'a species'. Possibly to do with that rumour engine image which looks like a wheel?

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

..............they say EVERY year since 1985....................

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
No to new race.

Yes to fixing the many, many, many holes in the existing GW range.

Oh my God, you mean they can't progressively do both?

Gosh!

You know they can't.

Sculptor time is limited.
Release windows are limited.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited.

A new Necromunda means a big box release and then weeks for any additional gangs and factions.

So a big release for existing lines or new factions has to compete with upcoming AoS, 40k, Necromunda and whatever else is coming. And there's only 3 months till Christmas. So no, they can't do both.

Sculptor time is limited - yes it is, but it's the only thing they do, 5 days a week. It's their job. I'm sure they come up with hundreds of designs that never see the light of day. Any artist can corroborate this.
Release windows are limited - yes, but only to the extent to your later point.
The number of plastic casting machines is limited - yes, but the space to hold the molds is not. They have standardized molds that they can put into storage or pull out if needed whenever they need to. This is a non-issue.
Shelf space at GW and FLGS shops is limited - sure, but if you're only putting the hottest stuff on the shelves, this is a non-issue.
The number of new releases the market can absorb each week is limited - this is the best point you made.

GW made about 10 new kits for Death Guard, only two of which were updated models (Plague Marines and Typhus). They added Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults, along with Harlequins before those, expanding their ranges. They're adding Necromunda and all those gangs, along with Shadespire and the different factions for that.

GW is clearly not afraid to expand their lines and give people new things to build, paint, and play. A new faction could totally happen.



HOWEVER, Lady Atia made a point that I want to bring up. On the first post there's the screenshot of a list of factions that she responded to. She said "Well, let's say - stuff that you thought wouldn't be possible in plastic is now possible."

That's a point at Sisters of Battle more than anything else. For years people have been harping on about GW not having the technology to do the faces right for the Sisters of Battle. Never was there a mention of a new faction requiring something in plastic that wasn't possible. It's always been one of the excuses as to why we don't have Plastic sisters yet.

Okay this is about a new xenos race so keep the chatter of sisters in its own thread please.

There's a great scene in The Player where Tim Robbins' character explains that as a movie producer he hears pitches from EVERYONE, hundreds a year. Established directors, stars, writers, his barber, the taxi driver...

And he can say 'yes' 10 times a year, that's it. That what they have the resources for.

So the gatekeepers at GW are the same, hearing pitches for units, characters, monsters, vehicles, whole factions and whole new games from their studio, the other staff, 100s of people in stores, 1000s of fans.

And they can say yes... oh lets say 100 times a year.

So if it comes to:
Sisters
Eldar gap filling
Chaos remodeling
New Marines
New Xenos

They have to ask what will make the most money. And they're sitting on 30 years of sales figues that might tell them that Eldar big things sell but Aspect warriors don't, or Chaos sells regardless of whether models are new or not, or Girl Armies don't sell... Or maybe the opposite of all of these.

Now history is a guide until it isn't. Maybe they had an axiom that Dwarves don't sell, until the steampunk air pirates came out at which time Dwarves did sell!

So basically I'm saying there's lots of stuff GW could do, but the rumors seem to be saying new Xenos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also add since GW went to all plastics a few years back they could have done and Eldar refresh or Sisters or a Chaos refresh any time.

Instead they did Genestealers, Adeptus Mech, terrain, Deathwatch, Stormcast, Overlords etc...

So unless something is different now, it seems unlikely that these long-standing action items would suddenly move to the top of the list.

Except the dwarves didn't sell at all and were generally seen as one of the so-so fantasy lines from what I can tell and gather. Khradron Overlords were noted as selling crazy well if GW's own report is anything to go by.

Also using your reasoning the only thing they should sell is 10 marine releases a year. Nothing not even chaos marines should exist with that logic. Games workshop is not a pure money making machine. There are much better businesses to get into if you want to make tons of money than making simple plastic models. They are a mix of business and creative talent. They need the right mix to work because if all they did was focus on money I get the feeling we would enter another old school GW period where their sales were actually dipping. They are out to sell models, but that starts with the most creative and original models.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Does anyone think that 'new race' might be some kind of pun? I seem to recall something by Lady Atia which implied it was a joke and the 'race' in question was 'a contest of speed' rather than 'a species'. Possibly to do with that rumour engine image which looks like a wheel?

So what you're saying is...

GORKA MORKA RERELEASE CONFIRMED!!!

/duck

 Gamgee wrote:
Except the dwarves didn't sell at all and were generally seen as one of the so-so fantasy lines from what I can tell and gather. Khradron Overlords were noted as selling crazy well if GW's own report is anything to go by.

Also using your reasoning the only thing they should sell is 10 marine releases a year. Nothing not even chaos marines should exist with that logic. Games workshop is not a pure money making machine. There are much better businesses to get into if you want to make tons of money than making simple plastic models. They are a mix of business and creative talent. They need the right mix to work because if all they did was focus on money I get the feeling we would enter another old school GW period where their sales were actually dipping. They are out to sell models, but that starts with the most creative and original models.

Well I'd say Marines make up something from 1/3 to 1/2 of the 40k releases (and maybe more from FW) so yeah. Of course GW needs to release more than Marines, too many marines cannibalize from each other but they're already supporting 3 incompatible marine lines: Venerable Secondis, 30k and Primaris!

I would not be surprised if, by GW's figures, Marines are underwriting some other factions.

But part of my points, going back to the Overlords, is that a professional can look at a pitch and realize that it's good enough to defy history and is worth pursuing. Sometimes a book by an unpublished writer about kids in a magic boarding school looks like a low-tier back list sort of title, but a good professional will realize this 'Harry Potter' thing has potential.

So if GW is doing a new Xenos faction rather than filling gaps of their mid-to-low-tier factions it might be because they see something great in it.

It seems to me that GW is quite reluctant to just do a regular update of any models from metal/resin to plastic. There are some exceptions of course, like the (40k) Meganobz, but in general it seems like they don't want to do it unless they also change and add stuff.

An example of this would be the Mek Gunz, which don't quite replace the old Big Gunz, but fill the same role (only better and with more elaborate/expensive kits).

So be a bit careful what you wish for - maybe plastic aspect warriors will become some kind of Ynnari exclusive, with new rules and fluff.

And then maybe after an edition or two, the old versions kinda fade away and disappear (which is what I expect will happen with the Big Gunz once the new Ork codex drops. Possibly this will also happen with the old Buggy/Trakk/Deffkopta kits, if a new one - as hinted - is released. The old versions are in the index, but not in the codex).

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Except the dwarves didn't sell at all and were generally seen as one of the so-so fantasy lines from what I can tell and gather. Khradron Overlords were noted as selling crazy well if GW's own report is anything to go by.

Also using your reasoning the only thing they should sell is 10 marine releases a year. Nothing not even chaos marines should exist with that logic. Games workshop is not a pure money making machine. There are much better businesses to get into if you want to make tons of money than making simple plastic models. They are a mix of business and creative talent. They need the right mix to work because if all they did was focus on money I get the feeling we would enter another old school GW period where their sales were actually dipping. They are out to sell models, but that starts with the most creative and original models.

Well I'd say Marines make up something from 1/3 to 1/2 of the 40k releases (and maybe more from FW) so yeah. Of course GW needs to release more than Marines, too many marines cannibalize from each other but they're already supporting 3 incompatible marine lines: Venerable Secondis, 30k and Primaris!

I would not be surprised if, by GW's figures, Marines are underwriting some other factions.

But part of my points, going back to the Overlords, is that a professional can look at a pitch and realize that it's good enough to defy history and is worth pursuing. Sometimes a book by an unpublished writer about kids in a magic boarding school looks like a low-tier back list sort of title, but a good professional will realize this 'Harry Potter' thing has potential.

So if GW is doing a new Xenos faction rather than filling gaps of their mid-to-low-tier factions it might be because they see something great in it.

I would say it's more about marketing appeal than anything. They make other factions to appeal to other demographics. Not everyone plays marines or vice versa. Believe it or not. Having only space marines would I think limit how much people they can get. Also new factions tend to sell better than new models for existing factions since there is more hype towards a big release. Also updating old models is also not very profitable for them as a new model completely.

I honestly think 40k has grown enough there is enough interest for a new xenos race. People are getting sick of seeing nothing but marines and IoM releases (more so the marines) at this point. It's very clear there is enough they could tap into a new demographic. Also the existing xenos players likely all have huge finished armies at this point and are likely in a prime position to start a new army provided it is well made and gets everyone's interest.

People said Deathwatch would never happen. Or Genestealer cults. Or many of the others you mention. People didn't think Primarchs would ever get done. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Particularly with new GW.

Edit
Also there will also be the inevitable Primarch release next year. Because of course there needs to be.

Yeah, I really struggle to buy into this conception of GW as razor-keen market manipulators engaging in numbers-flying-past-head-GIF calculations to discover exactly which thing will sell most.

I'm sure (modern)GW engage in some market research and informed speculation, but you can't look at them dropping something like GSC out of nowhere and convincingly argue that was a hard-headed sales-based decision. They obviously believed it would sell enough to justify itself, but frankly outside of their own incompetence(printing waaaaay too many foreign language versions of GorkaMorka and having to pulp all that wasted stock) when has a GW release ever properly crashed and burned?

Not less successful than anticipated, mind, but full-on failed so badly that it actually lost them money? I can't think of anything. So at some stage(likely after they wring the maximum possible revenue out of Marines) they're looking at choosing between projects based on things other than how much RoI they'll get over development costs, and so I very much doubt the reason we get GSC and Deathwatch and Random Upcoming Nuliens rather than plastic Aspects or a new Guard regiment or plastic Sisters is "there's other stuff that would sell more"; it's down to the preferences and creative biases of the people making the pitches and the people judging them.

There really needs to be someone there responsible for looking after the health of the overall IP, someone who can balance the desires of the moneymen, the studio, and the fans who will occasionally tell the studio to knuckle down and get something done for reasons other than pleasing the moneymen, and tell the moneymen to dry their eyes with their stacks of Marinebucks to ensure all aspects of the IP get some time in the sun every once in a while. Otherwise all we get is this wild swing between serving the needs of the business and the whims of the designers, with big chunks of the fansbase told to be happy with their 20+year old degraded metals & half-arsed resins or else feth off.

Actually they have been fairly good at listening to fan wishes lately. Hence why I think there is a possibility there will be a new race. Heck if GW is the one putting these hints out there themselves when the fans themselves really didn't think its possible I think we should keep an open mind.

I also agree with you Yod. Sometimes brilliance and creativity is completely accidental. Oh boy do I know that lol.

GW also does stuff that doesn't make much sense.
Look at Eldrad. They have an old finecast mini. It's not too bad compared to the rest of the CWE range, and it's a unique character, so people can only ever buy one.
Then they decide to make an updated plastic kit, release it in a limited edition box, and stop there. You can still buy the old finecast one, but the new plastic one is completely OOP (there's a chance it will get released with the CWE codex but still, it's been about a year).

Everyone always argues that creating a new plastic kit takes a lot of money (to create the mould), and GW needs to sell quite a lot of that single kit to pay off the initial investment. But here we are, with an excellent mini that was only available for a short time, in a heavily discounted box set. This just doesn't make any sense to me.
So maybe they had done the new Eldrad a long time ago as part of a release that never came to light, and had to do something with it, or any other reason that's not obvious from the outside. But still, if we try to use logic to speculate on GW's releases, I just don't see how we can explain Eldrad.

Yeah there are definitely not logical things done on occasion. More so in the days of old GW than now.

Given Atia's response to someone implying that the "Slann" could be coming, that's the biggest thing that excites me.

I've always wanted to see the Old Ones (Or their cold blooded descendants), if only to watch them do battle against the Necrons. I never really felt the rivalry between the Eldar and the Necrons because despite them having fought in the War in Heaven, it just doesn't feel as personal. Bringing back Slann really ups the level of animosity. Especially as however small they make the Slann galactically, it'd be funny as gak to watch these huge wars break out in the midst of Chaos spreading across the galaxy, while the Imperium and Chaos (Or the Slann and Necrons depending on how you look at it) get caught in the crossfire of one another's galaxy wars. lol

If they go full- on space reptiles I'd love to see them somehow tie it back to the Seraphon.

In a perfect world they'd be dual functioning like the Daemons are in both 40k and Sigmar.

Which I would be quite alright with.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There's a great scene in The Player where Tim Robbins' character explains that as a movie producer he hears pitches from EVERYONE, hundreds a year. Established directors, stars, writers, his barber, the taxi driver...

And he can say 'yes' 10 times a year, that's it. That what they have the resources for.

So the gatekeepers at GW are the same, hearing pitches for units, characters, monsters, vehicles, whole factions and whole new games from their studio, the other staff, 100s of people in stores, 1000s of fans.

And they can say yes... oh lets say 100 times a year.

So you mean some guy heard 1000s of suggestions and STILL decided to go with Primaris?
Sigh.

That's different. They came up with that one themselves!

Carlovonsexron wrote:
That's different. They came up with that one themselves!

Yup.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Not less successful than anticipated, mind, but full-on failed so badly that it actually lost them money? I can't think of anything.

Dreadfleet would like a word with you. While perhaps not an outright money-loser, it's hard to think of something they recalled from shops to reportedly be destroyed as a "success." Granted, that product qualifies as being so radically different from GW's core business that it's not wholly unexpected and could be considered a red herring. You did ask though.

Arguably the later LotR sets when the bubble burst could be considered as qualifying as failing anticipated targets, but that's probably more GW not adjusting targets for reality than "failing" in an objective sense. Didn't lose money so you could say that's not a full-on failure, but they didn't raise revenues that GW had already planned on spending which caused a kerfuffle in their finances for a bit (and arguably lead to some of the more Kirby-headed maneuvers to alienate customers).

In the main though, I agree with your points since both of those examples are outside their core lines (as much as they may have wanted LotR to be a third line). I'd be dubious that there have been substantial failures in the AoS or 40k lines.

 Krinsath wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Not less successful than anticipated, mind, but full-on failed so badly that it actually lost them money? I can't think of anything.

Dreadfleet would like a word with you. While perhaps not an outright money-loser, it's hard to think of something they recalled from shops to reportedly be destroyed as a "success." Granted, that product qualifies as being so radically different from GW's core business that it's not wholly unexpected and could be considered a red herring. You did ask though.

Arguably the later LotR sets when the bubble burst could be considered as qualifying as failing anticipated targets, but that's probably more GW not adjusting targets for reality than "failing" in an objective sense. Didn't lose money so you could say that's not a full-on failure, but they didn't raise revenues that GW had already planned on spending which caused a kerfuffle in their finances for a bit (and arguably lead to some of the more Kirby-headed maneuvers to alienate customers).

In the main though, I agree with your points since both of those examples are outside their core lines (as much as they may have wanted LotR to be a third line). I'd be dubious that there have been substantial failures in the AoS or 40k lines.

The Dark elder re-boot did not get them the expected sales and as such any overhaul like that for an existing faction is dead in the water.
They sell the largest amount of a kit in the 1st month and tottaly new stuff sells better than refreshed product.

All these things taken together lead you to the release.of.mini factions with a mostly 1 and done philosophy, I suspect this will continue and we will see further splintered factions or new factions released that will not get continued support. I guess it will be a little like the philosophy behind ccg's where every release is "The Next Big Thing" until the following months release.