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Yup, Berzerkers get into melee and they kill anything..
Getting them into melee on the other hand.
I still giggle at the Rhino berserker bomb...
Drive your Rhino as close as possible to the enemy. Fire the combi bolter and combi plasma supercharged, even better if you can get it to be an assault weapon and assault (-2 instead of -1 - though this probably requires a Codex marine like boost to allow vehicles to benefit from Legion traits), preferably at a unit with -1 to hit (so at least -2). Try and explode... Blow up, disembark and engage!
You giggle, i find it stupid.
well technically i gigle aswell but it is annoying when other factions just get the disembark freely after movement whilest all other factions now can go and sulk in a corner.
That was the time i stopped personally.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Yup, Berzerkers get into melee and they kill anything..
Getting them into melee on the other hand.
I still giggle at the Rhino berserker bomb...
Drive your Rhino as close as possible to the enemy. Fire the combi bolter and combi plasma supercharged, even better if you can get it to be an assault weapon and assault (-2 instead of -1 - though this probably requires a Codex marine like boost to allow vehicles to benefit from Legion traits), preferably at a unit with -1 to hit (so at least -2). Try and explode... Blow up, disembark and engage!
Yup, Berzerkers get into melee and they kill anything..
Getting them into melee on the other hand.
I still giggle at the Rhino berserker bomb...
Drive your Rhino as close as possible to the enemy. Fire the combi bolter and combi plasma supercharged, even better if you can get it to be an assault weapon and assault (-2 instead of -1 - though this probably requires a Codex marine like boost to allow vehicles to benefit from Legion traits), preferably at a unit with -1 to hit (so at least -2). Try and explode... Blow up, disembark and engage!
This got FAQ'd out of existence.
Really? Oh no :( Does the plasma only do 1 wound now or something like that?
The_Real_Chris wrote: Really? Oh no :( Does the plasma only do 1 wound now or something like that?
You can still blow yourself up, but the FAQ specifically states that if you emergency disembark during a turn, then you can't declare a charge later that turn. Apparently it wasn't from the Combi-Plasma trick, but rather from people charging Rhinos with just 1 or 2 wounds left into enemies while dudes were in the Rhino, hoping that the Rhino would die on Overwatch, and then when it died from that the guys inside would be able to get out (far closer to the enemy) and still charge.
Galef wrote: If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors.
I think it's a good start. I'd then add a few more useful strategems as suggested below:
Khorne:
- Something to help with charge (maybe 3D6 range or a simple +6" - blood hunger) maybe even allow them to embark/disembark twice in a movement phase, once at end and once at start. MAYBE even something to shut down overwatch.
- Something to give some help against shooting (such as 'veil of rage' which gives -1 to hit that KB unit or they count as being in cover or maybe something that makes them count as a character)
Slannesh
- Something to help the AP of noise weapons (like -D3 in the phase the strat is used maybe like 'piercing frequency')
- Something to help in combat - maybe one to let them shoot instead of attack ('sweet wounds')
Tzeentch
- Something to polish off ruberic marines' shooting (like mortal wounds on a 6, 5+ against imperium - 'explosive rounds')
- Something to help them with combat deterrent (like, remove D3" from an opponents charge roll could be 'sorcerous mist'). Maybe even something like 'soul exhumation or wicked vengeance' when a rubricae is destroyed in melee, roll a D6. On a 4+ the attacking unit suffers a MW.
Nurgle
- Something to assist with speed ('Quick as the crypt or Slime Deluge' - may double advance)
- Something to help against tanks ('Rusted/Decayed Taint' - exchange normal shots or CC attacks for 1 attack each, doing 1 MW on a 5+ or D3 on a 6. Only works against vehicles and monsters)
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/11/11 15:02:07
Karol wrote: well there is a slight problem with anti horde weapons, when they suddenly get extra AP and d2. Then they suddenly go from anti horde to anti everything. Not saying it is a specific chaos case though.
The more I think on this change the more I like it. It really puts a foot in the ass of IF.
Go ahead. Shoot heavy bolters at my W2 rubrics.
Awesome. That just leaves 18 factions that are completely fethed when facing off against IF and the new Marines but who cares about them anyway, right?
It takes a dedicated person to get a positive post about a possible buff to Rubric Marines to be about how hard Orks have it, and yet you have succeeded.
he talks about 18 other factions.
Which i guess i partially true, i mean otoh he could be happy that 3 factions get now their hallmark units on the table, maybee, unlike his own faction thanks to gw.
So are you going to make D1 weapons cheaper or double their rate of fire to compensate for the fact that you're making things 2x as durable against them for free?
Factions like AM already get an obnoxious amount of firepower for the points it costs to field them. I've played against AM armies that can have (I could be fuzzy on exact numbers) a unit of I think 10 units throwing out 40 shots at me when I am trying to close distance with my troops. The weight of fire is already pretty crazy, so we don't need to see 1d weapons get a bump if we see a handful of troops go to 2W. I find that suggestion silly.
Edit - Now, it is fair to leave the door open for future changes, as we have seen GW do this edition. So if they did implement this change, and then it turns to be too much of a boost, we would see an adjustment. That being said, I still don't see how 1d weapons need a boost, because they certainly already provide plenty of punch in large number - which is how they should be used in this edition, yeah?
The weight of fire keeps getting pushed higher and higher because weaker weapons (particularly lasguns) are completely pointless without four shots a model. Consider a Space Marine in cover. 4+ to hit/5+ to wound/2+ save means you need 36 lasgun shots on average to remove that model. 72 lasgun shots if it's a Primaris Marine or a Cult CSM model under this proposed change. FRF/SRF exists because durability creep has squashed the bottom end to the point that lasguns are pretty pointless without it.
I think I agree with the concept of what your argument is, however what I have seen on the table just doesn't fall in line with your example. AM opponents I face are not having a hard time clearing troops. I lose squads of scouts and tac's to massive walls of lasgun fire all the time. The FRF/SRF is a delete button from my vantage point, and the troops are just so flippin cheap that you can field so many. Now, I believe that AM should be able to field those numbers because thats exactly what the AM is. You throw numbers at the enemy. That being said, increasing their baseline weapon is going to make them OP. You have a lot of tanks and other higer powered units to take on an opponents big stuff.
- 10,000 pts CSM 
