Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ishagu wrote:
The BCP app has lots of performance data from events like the SoCal open?

I really think we should wait and see what PA2 brings.

I didn’t actually know that, thank you for mentioning it, only thing that sucks is that you have to subscribe to see more than 3 days back.

 Ishagu wrote:


I'm not making that argument lol.
I'm telling you to relax. We don't know what updated Chaos will be getting yet.

After how long is it considered to be okey, to no longer be relaxed ?

also it isn't very fun for chaos marine players to hear, that as long as they spam demons, ahriman and FW stuff, and never ever take csm in their csm army, it is going to be okey.

I doubt a DA player is happy to hear that he should be happy, that IH are great now and they are marines too, so he should feel great.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
So are Guard going to get 6 shots per model or 8 shots per model next edition to make up for the fact that they keep making everything else bigger and tougher?

No, but maybe after they all get psychically awakened every guardsman will have Smite!

Confirmed, DA player, pissed that GW couldn't even re-write our chapter master re-rolls not to mention the fact that we were a worse performing army BEFORE the SM buffs and couldn't even get a bone while "real" SM got a whole steak dinner...

SW player as well and the fact that we pay more for a tac that does less when GW could have easily put in a new price for our hunters and claws in the PDF they put out would have been nice. Frost weapons are sooooo good, glad those LCs got a price reduction...

BA player too!! It's great that invictors break the keyword structure and don't get any chapter bonuses. Much fun, great times! Also, so happy that regular marines got better and cheaper charging, pre-game move and extra attack strats, finally justice for Sanguinius!!!

DW player here as well. I love all those new toys that SM got that would work so great in a DW army that we were told to just wait for until they got the shoulder pad issue worked out...

Nope, not bitter at all. Supper happy about all of the recent game changes and GWs release schedule. Only 6 more months to wait until I can play at a tournament with any of my armies with the hope of going better than 3-3...

 Elbows wrote:
Two wounds would be a huge deal, and would need a couple points extra-cost for sure. As neat as it would be, it would make Rubrics, etc. extremely good. Two wounds on a basic model is a tremendous asset.

I dunno. Intercessors are 30" and AP2 on turn 2 with an extra attack. Not to mention SBRs.

bananathug wrote:

DW player here as well. I love all those new toys that SM got that would work so great in a DW army that we were told to just wait for until they got the shoulder pad issue worked out...

Which was ~7 months ago by the by. Amusingly enough, the only army thats gotten fewer updates than the lads on the Long Vigil are Grey Knights.

As with everything, a change like this, even at no points change, would help some more than others. As pointed out, the biggest benefits would go to Plague Marines and Rubric Marines, since they already are the most resilient of the cult infantry. Berzerkers would absolutely benefit, and while they wouldn't be the biggest winners of the change, they're already the best cult infantry there is, so this would make them see a return. Losing half as many dudes as before to piddly shots would be a big deal for them. Noise Marines, unfortunately, would benefit the least from the change. Their special rule works off them dying, so this runs against that, and they aren't able to really put out a lot of damage right now anyways (only outshining the Plague Marines in damage output), so they benefit the least from the change, and are already one of the least seen cult infantry, so yeah - not a huge change here.

Points adjustment-wise, I think only a 1 or 2 point increase across the board would be required. Berzerkers should go up 2 points, as probably should Plague Marines. Rubric Marines would only need to go up 1 point, or maybe no increase. Noise Marines would definitely not require a points change, even with +1 Wound.

So I am actually thinking that this Rumor is missing a key point. DG & Tson are NOT mentioned in the Factions getting updated rules in PA2.
So it may very well mean that Rubrics and Plague Marines stay at 1W, but Noise Marines and Zerkersare are getting 2W.

This would be odd and frustratingly inconsistent, but maybe par for the course at this point

-

 Galef wrote:
So I am actually thinking that this Rumor is missing a key point. DG & Tson are NOT mentioned in the Factions getting updated rules in PA2.
So it may very well mean that Rubrics and Plague Marines stay at 1W, but Noise Marines and Zerkersare are getting 2W.

This would be odd and frustratingly inconsistent, but maybe par for the course at this point

-

As odd frusttrating and inconsistent as Tac / CSM marine prices compared to C:SM Tacs?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yarium wrote:
As with everything, a change like this, even at no points change, would help some more than others. As pointed out, the biggest benefits would go to Plague Marines and Rubric Marines, since they already are the most resilient of the cult infantry. Berzerkers would absolutely benefit, and while they wouldn't be the biggest winners of the change, they're already the best cult infantry there is, so this would make them see a return. Losing half as many dudes as before to piddly shots would be a big deal for them. Noise Marines, unfortunately, would benefit the least from the change. Their special rule works off them dying, so this runs against that, and they aren't able to really put out a lot of damage right now anyways (only outshining the Plague Marines in damage output), so they benefit the least from the change, and are already one of the least seen cult infantry, so yeah - not a huge change here.

Points adjustment-wise, I think only a 1 or 2 point increase across the board would be required. Berzerkers should go up 2 points, as probably should Plague Marines. Rubric Marines would only need to go up 1 point, or maybe no increase. Noise Marines would definitely not require a points change, even with +1 Wound.

Nope, they profit less then noise marines.
Simply due to the fact that movement is not affected.
And footslogging berzerkers is ridicoulous.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So I am actually thinking that this Rumor is missing a key point. DG & Tson are NOT mentioned in the Factions getting updated rules in PA2.
So it may very well mean that Rubrics and Plague Marines stay at 1W, but Noise Marines and Zerkersare are getting 2W.

This would be odd and frustratingly inconsistent, but maybe par for the course at this point

-

As odd frusttrating and inconsistent as Tac / CSM marine prices compared to C:SM Tacs?

Indeed. But maybe A) CSM are getting something special in PA2 and/or B) CA 2019 with fix their posts

-

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
Oh relax lol. Chaos Marines have been better than the loyalists for the last two years. A change in core stats should come alongside a price bump, not to mention that as things stand Chaos don't lose anything for allying with other sub factions, unlike the loyalist Astartes.

FFS, until a couple months ago you didn't lose anything by allying with other sub-factions.

But hey, keep rolling with the collective punishment reasoning.

Loyalists don't LOSE anything by allying with other factions. They GAIN things by not allying with other factions.

You still get blanket chapter tactics and all your strategems, relics, and everything BUT doctrines. Lol lol lol.

 Galef wrote:
So I am actually thinking that this Rumor is missing a key point. DG & Tson are NOT mentioned in the Factions getting updated rules in PA2.
So it may very well mean that Rubrics and Plague Marines stay at 1W, but Noise Marines and Zerkersare are getting 2W.

This would be odd and frustratingly inconsistent, but maybe par for the course at this point

-

If they keep doing it like they have for the rest of the edition, Plague Marines and Rubrics would go to 2W for CSM only, and TS and DG would keep their 1W version.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Galef wrote:
So I am actually thinking that this Rumor is missing a key point. DG & Tson are NOT mentioned in the Factions getting updated rules in PA2.
So it may very well mean that Rubrics and Plague Marines stay at 1W, but Noise Marines and Zerkersare are getting 2W.

This would be odd and frustratingly inconsistent, but maybe par for the course at this point

-

If they keep doing it like they have for the rest of the edition, Plague Marines and Rubrics would go to 2W for CSM only, and TS and DG would keep their 1W version.

Kind of like how they didn't apply brutal assault to all the CSM factions, right?

That aside I fully recognize the possibility that they gave EC and WE a buff in PA that won't percolate to everyone else later. If that happens, we ride! Or something.

As was pointed out to me, DG and TS are on the picture with all the "who will get an update" army symbols. So it is possible they are saving them for later, because they might otherwise run out of badies for the imperium to fight.

Or they fight each other - not unlikely considering they are the only two primarchs with models that could clash and both walk away afterwards.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Biasn wrote:
One thing could be that chosen will go to 2 Wounds since they are the "cult" equivalent of undivided right?

Yes that could be argued and I quiet like them but they don't fill a troops slot. Which means undivided would suddenly have considerably weaker troops.

Sure, but having access to some Undivided W2 marines is better than no Undivided W2 marines at all.

And personally I think having your troops be cultists and then having couple of squads of beefy Chosen would be pretty cool. I'd prefer Chaos Marines themselves to be pretty rare but powerful.

 Jidmah wrote:
As was pointed out to me, DG and TS are on the picture with all the "who will get an update" army symbols. So it is possible they are saving them for later, because they might otherwise run out of badies for the imperium to fight.

Or they fight each other - not unlikely considering they are the only two primarchs with models that could clash and both walk away afterwards.

Everyone gets "something". I'm curious how many books there will be, because the first didn't cover a lot. I'd guess PA3 would be the last one with everyone else crammed in. PA3 can't possibly be out before the end of the year, either, so CA first, if anything.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Everyone gets "something". I'm curious how many books there will be, because the first didn't cover a lot. I'd guess PA3 would be the last one with everyone else crammed in. PA3 can't possibly be out before the end of the year, either, so CA first, if anything.

PA3 is december. PA is running through next year, it's not just the 3 boxes.

Get comfortable folks, this is your 2.0 codex.

Leaks had PA2 on 11/29 unless something changed. Seems exceedingly crammed to have CA, PA3, and battle boxes on top of everything else. Too much.

 Crimson wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Biasn wrote:
One thing could be that chosen will go to 2 Wounds since they are the "cult" equivalent of undivided right?

Yes that could be argued and I quiet like them but they don't fill a troops slot. Which means undivided would suddenly have considerably weaker troops.

Sure, but having access to some Undivided W2 marines is better than no Undivided W2 marines at all.

And personally I think having your troops be cultists and then having couple of squads of beefy Chosen would be pretty cool. I'd prefer Chaos Marines themselves to be pretty rare but powerful.

This is what I've been talking about. The basic Chaos Marine profile has no place in the CSM codex. It doesn't represent Legions proper.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Leaks had PA2 on 11/29 unless something changed. Seems exceedingly crammed to have CA, PA3, and battle boxes on top of everything else. Too much.

CA's not going to be much more than points adjustments and the 'Legends' transition from what I've heard.

PA updates are on a 1/month schedule. Assuming they stick to that, PA3 is next month. It's BA and someone else that I didn't really care about. Probably tied into the Primaris Mephiston release.

It's not too much if you are trying to max out sales profits before dropping 9th in 6-8 months.

 Crimson wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Biasn wrote:
One thing could be that chosen will go to 2 Wounds since they are the "cult" equivalent of undivided right?

Yes that could be argued and I quiet like them but they don't fill a troops slot. Which means undivided would suddenly have considerably weaker troops.

Sure, but having access to some Undivided W2 marines is better than no Undivided W2 marines at all.

And personally I think having your troops be cultists and then having couple of squads of beefy Chosen would be pretty cool. I'd prefer Chaos Marines themselves to be pretty rare but powerful.

Like I said earlier just let Night Lords have raptors as troops again and I'll gladly take my 2 wound chosen (terror squads) and be happy.

Is there another faction in the game (excluding nu-Marines) who's units just get free wounds for literally no cost? Are GW actually trying to make 40k 30k v2.0? This is one of the most stupid things I have ever heard if true and is a sign that the game is heading towards/is already in a completely broken state. I don't quite fancy a game where I can't compete and I don't get updates unless I play a blessed faction. feth this.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's not too much if you are trying to max out sales profits before dropping 9th in 6-8 months.

wasn't that how fantasy ended, they hyped up a ton of books, and hinted at new stuff coming up, only to then make AoS and leave people with hundrades of dollars spend on stuff, they could no longer use?

I got a quick question. People are saying that cult marines are just going to be prime targets for D2 weapons. Which yeah. But where were these D2 weapons pointed before? Tanks? The cult marines to start with?

Provided the 2nd wound comes at no cost I don't see much to worry about

 fraser1191 wrote:
...Provided the 2nd wound comes at no cost...

So are you going to make D1 weapons cheaper or double their rate of fire to compensate for the fact that you're making things 2x as durable against them for free?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
...Provided the 2nd wound comes at no cost...

So are you going to make D1 weapons cheaper or double their rate of fire to compensate for the fact that you're making things 2x as durable against them for free?

Many D1 weapons are free so let's make them negative points to make the game more lethal and only last for players that have more bodies than their opponent has bullets

 fraser1191 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
...Provided the 2nd wound comes at no cost...

So are you going to make D1 weapons cheaper or double their rate of fire to compensate for the fact that you're making things 2x as durable against them for free?

Many D1 weapons are free so let's make them negative points to make the game more lethal and only last for players that have more bodies than their opponent has bullets

A game of "the person who bought the most models wins!"?

Perfect. Why have we been writing 'game' rulebooks all these years? Get me the marketing department on the phone straight away!

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
...Provided the 2nd wound comes at no cost...

So are you going to make D1 weapons cheaper or double their rate of fire to compensate for the fact that you're making things 2x as durable against them for free?

Many D1 weapons are free so let's make them negative points to make the game more lethal and only last for players that have more bodies than their opponent has bullets

A game of "the person who bought the most models wins!"?

Perfect. Why have we been writing 'game' rulebooks all these years? Get me the marketing department on the phone straight away!

Well a lot of people say the game is already won at list building. This is just cutting out the middle man. You can get a lot more games in a day this way!