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harkequin wrote: I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.
Daaamn. I never noticed it before, the tables on digital and print rulebooks are different! On the print version (both assault rules on page 49 and reference section in the back) has the good old table that follows the same logic all the way through (so 4+ until against more than double WS), but the digital version really does have that strange anomaly on 2 vs 4.
That's a typo.
Of course it is, but someone who's only ever used the digital version wouldn't automatically know that, because it almost makes sense.
EDIT: The digital one has a typo I (we?) mean. That's how the table has always been, 4+ until over double.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 18:53:56
but if history has taught us anything in this game, anytime an army found a legal way for the first player to get off a first turn charge, it was immediately faq'ed out.
Except for that blood angel formation But yeah, a T1 15 scarab charge will at minimum, upset someone's plan , if not outright ruin it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 18:54:04
harkequin wrote: I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.
Daaamn. I never noticed it before, the tables on digital and print rulebooks are different! On the print version (both assault rules on page 49 and reference section in the back) has the good old table that follows the same logic all the way through (so 4+ until against more than double WS), but the digital version really does have that strange anomaly on 2 vs 4.
That's a typo.
The chart contradicts the logic explained elsewhere on the page. I would check with your opponent or TO to see which they would go with.
omerakk wrote: I dont know if I would get to used to the scarab idea.
There's nothing wrong with it; it is perfectly legal... but if history has taught us anything in this game, anytime an army found a legal way for the first player to get off a first turn charge, it was immediately faq'ed out.
immediately faq'ed
It would be worth it for an immediate Necron FAQ for the new codex.
Seriously though, It's a combo that requires 300 points, and $200 worth, of Spyders to get a half dozen 20 point models into combat. It's not exactly a deathstar.
adamsouza wrote: I take back everything I said about Scarab Dash being a gimmick. Dug out my models and ran a few simulations, with 6 Spyders, starting on the deployment zone edge. You can reliably spawn scarabs up to 12" into the center of the battlefield in the first movement phase without even moving the scarabs. Their 12" movement carries a few of them them all them way to the enemies deployment zone edge, within charge range.
If you go first, a first turn charge could be invaluable tool to monkey wrench enemy forces.
I tried it with 6 Spyders, but I believe you could still accomplish it with a minimum of 4 Spyders.
I thought they worded it so that the scarab itself has to be placed within 6" from the Spyder.
I thought they worded it so that the scarab itself has to be placed within 6" from the Spyder.
Yes , but you move the spyder 6" forward then spawn in coherency until the last one spawns 6" infron of the spyder, so 12" past your deployment line, before even moving the scarabs
I thought they worded it so that the scarab itself has to be placed within 6" from the Spyder.
Yes , but you move the spyder 6" forward then spawn in coherency until the last one spawns 6" infron of the spyder, so 12" past your deployment line, before even moving the scarabs
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light
1844
Possible changes include:
-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.
-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.
-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.
Thoughts?
You could save points by just going with the 5+ , 4+ versus shooting with taking a Chronometron.
-25 Points
- Points for Warscythe Change
- Points Drop the Lord take a Cryptek
- Drop the H. Destroyers in the Destroyer Units
- Add More Flayed Ones
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light
1844
Possible changes include:
-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.
-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.
-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.
Thoughts?
Why so many phase shifters on the Crypteks? they all ready have a 4++ (technically) id drop one and buy the DL a 2+.
Id also split the Flayed ones, 1 x group of 5 and the rest deep striking in with the DL.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hollismason wrote: You could save points by just going with the 5+ , 4+ versus shooting with taking a Chronometron.
-25 Points
- Points for Warscythe Change
- Points Drop the Lord take a Cryptek
- Drop the H. Destroyers in the Destroyer Units
- Add More Flayed Ones
Not a fan of dropping the HD on the Destroyers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/13 02:28:50
I really don't suggest taking minimum squads of Flayed Ones, you're going to see them get run off the board, while yes they have LD 10 there's enough out there for negative leadership modifiers to not care.
Plus having more bodies to soak up Overwatch.
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
Other than the kill points I don't see any issue with running small units of flayed ones. You are just as likely to fail a morale check with 10 in a squad as you are when you have 5. Only difference on a morale level is that you only need 2 casualties for a check with 5 vs 3 for 10, if you are considering running a squad of 10 flayed ones I would argue that 2 squads of 5 would be better if you have available slots. You can always just charge them into the same unit which further protects them incase they do loose a combat as your less likely to be run down.
Minimum squads of flayed ones are fine especially if your deepstriking since the smaller footprint will make landing easier. The only concern is the easy kill points for 5 man squads which aren't terribly durable but are still about as hard to kill as a 5 man marine squad.
Psienesis wrote: While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons
Hey, do you guys think a tournament list can do well without Night Scythes? It cuts down on our mobility and removes anti-air, but more boots on the ground and more MSU might make up for that?
Plus, Flayed Ones and Wraiths can move around the board fast enough to not care about needing flying transports... I dunno. Losing out on flyers hurts, but I think it could work out besides.
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light
1844
Possible changes include:
-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.
-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.
-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.
Thoughts?
Why so many phase shifters on the Crypteks? they all ready have a 4++ (technically) id drop one and buy the DL a 2+.
4++/4+++ is nearly unkillable. Once they fall, the C'Tan is quite less powerful. Chronometron is nearly as good (not quite there, but cheaper yes), but once they get into assault - and the Nightbringer wants to be in assault - it does nothing and they die. Horribly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/13 04:22:22
Punisher wrote: Other than the kill points I don't see any issue with running small units of flayed ones. You are just as likely to fail a morale check with 10 in a squad as you are when you have 5. Only difference on a morale level is that you only need 2 casualties for a check with 5 vs 3 for 10, if you are considering running a squad of 10 flayed ones I would argue that 2 squads of 5 would be better if you have available slots. You can always just charge them into the same unit which further protects them incase they do loose a combat as your less likely to be run down.
Minimum squads of flayed ones are fine especially if your deepstriking since the smaller footprint will make landing easier. The only concern is the easy kill points for 5 man squads which aren't terribly durable but are still about as hard to kill as a 5 man marine squad.
I tend to agree. Unless you are going to work a Dlord or Cryptek into the group, MSU them up as slots allow. Like you said, you can always multi charge with them if needed.
Requizen wrote: 4++/4+++ is nearly unkillable. Once they fall, the C'Tan is quite less powerful. Chronometron is nearly as good (not quite there, but cheaper yes), but once they get into assault - and the Nightbringer wants to be in assault - it does nothing and they die. Horribly.
That's why I think you only need one, 4++ / 4+++ on a 2 wound model with T8 (Crypteks are T8 in the formation right?) If your worried about combat it's possible you still may get a 4+ / 4+++ (depending on who you charged)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/13 06:31:36
SCARAB DASH Gaming Table, 48" across, with enemy on their 12" deployment line border
6 Canoptek Spyders and a swarm of scarabs ready to dash across the board
Spyders moved up 6" and spawned Scarabs. Each scarab base is placed as far forward as possible while remaining within squad coherency and within 6" of the Spyder that created it.
The Canoptek Scarabs spawned furthest out should now be 12" into the center of the battlefield.
The Canoptek Scarabs then advance 12"
The view of a satisfied Necron General
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/13 15:29:10
Conclave of the Burning One Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Chronometron, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Solar Staff)
1848
Made the Conclave 25 points cheaper, and split the Flayed Ones into 2 units of 8. I prefer larger units, but units of 8 strike the balance between minimum and large, and taking 2 units allows for more map presence from Infiltrate/Outflank.
I'm thinking of dropping the Scythes altogether and instead taking 6 Whip Coil Wraiths, either in 1 big unit or 2 units of 3. It makes my Troops less useful, but gives more units for taking/contesting objectives and gives a stronger midfield presence. Immortals would basically be relegated to ObSec camping on backfield/midfield objectives. Thoughts on running this with no Flyers?
SCARAB DASH Gaming Table, 48" across, with enemy on their 12" deployment line border
6 Canoptek Spyders and a swarm of scarabs ready to dash across the board
Spyders moved up 6" and spawned Scarabs. Each scarab base is placed as far forward as possible while remaining within squad coherency and within 6" of the Spyder that created it.
The Canoptek Scarabs spawned furthest out should now be 12" into the center of the battlefield.
The Canoptek Scarabs then advance 12"
The view of a satisfied Necron General
Great Job!!! Way better than my drawing!
The only thing I would add is show the movment of the Scarabs from above so that people realize the Non Produced Scarabs ( the ones not spawned in the deployment zone) end up in the center of the table.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/13 20:25:56
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
SCARAB DASH Gaming Table, 48" across, with enemy on their 12" deployment line border
6 Canoptek Spyders and a swarm of scarabs ready to dash across the board
Spyders moved up 6" and spawned Scarabs. Each scarab base is placed as far forward as possible while remaining within squad coherency and within 6" of the Spyder that created it.
The Canoptek Scarabs spawned furthest out should now be 12" into the center of the battlefield.
The Canoptek Scarabs then advance 12"
The view of a satisfied Necron General
That is awesome. Thanks for posting this. Seems like if your enemy has first turn though it would be pretty easy to move away.
6000+
2000
2000
