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Oh yeah, Dread attacks are S10, not 8, so they will nerf RP down. Wasn't thinking about that.

Still, ultimately, even outside of the formation, and only getting 6+ RP, I think the odds favor the TPs slightly.

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Oh yeah, Dread attacks are S10, not 8, so they will nerf RP down. Wasn't thinking about that.

Still, ultimately, even outside of the formation, and only getting 6+ RP, I think the odds favor the TPs slightly.

There is also another reality. If using the formation, it's easy for the Praetorians to jump behind to rear armor, and reroll armor pen rolls before charging in. So, there's that.

Obviously, those numbers double if they are in the formation and the Dread is marked. In other words, he dies in one round.

Just remember, the judicator mark, is only for the shooting phase, not the assault phase.

It takes 18 hits with s4 gauss to drop 3 MEQ or a dread. Charging a model that has 2 or 3 attacks with an expensive unit of 10 TP when it can be dakkad down as easy as 3 MEQ is wasting the time of 10 TP.

The only walkers necrons should be sweating is multiple soul grinders. They are ugly with MOT and cursed earth. Fortunately initiative 4 knights with d weapons kick the viability right out of that list.

Agreed. Even though Wraiths and voidblade Praetorians hit hard, they should rarely charge an intact walker and definitely never PLAN to do so. They're more of a mop up crew than an alpha strike. Strip off a hull point or two with gauss flayers first, then get stuck in and take off the last one or two points. Warriors, Immortals, Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, voidblade Praetorians, shield Lychguard and even Tomb Blades are all durable generalists, and need to work in concert with the rest of the force. There's no reason for them to go at it solo unless you have no other choice.

That's not to say there aren't specialists, but they are less common in Necron lists If you really need to hit vehicles hard and fast, try a Doom Scythe or maybe a Doomsday Ark. If you want to go head to head with elite infantry without support, try rod Praetorians. Svarms of light infantry ruining your day? Beamer Tomb Blades.

Here's my take on a decurion with double harvests:

Overlord (shifter, veil, scythe)
5 Lychguard (swords & shields)
6 Immortals
10 Warriors + Ark
10 Warriors + Ark
5 Tomb Blades (beamers, 3+ saves, scopes)

6 Wraiths (all coils)
6 Scarabs
Spyder

6 Wraiths (all coils)
6 Scarabs
Spyder

1848

The overlord costs exactly the same as Zahndrekh, who I've been using up to now, but I think warscythe and veil might be better than zealot and 2+ save. Zahndrekh of course does all sorts of other stuff, but in this list the rest isn't so obviously useful, and while he's default warlord trait is perfect for lychguard, not being much of a fighter himself is a bit problematic in that unit.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
5TP is 20 attacks, 10 hits and 1.6 hull points.

It would be even less as the Dread is going to kill 1 or 2 guys before the TP get to swing, so I don't see odds in the TP's favor.

The Dread might kill 2, 3 at the most, and the TPs will ultimately win the combat.

Your assumptions don't match the reality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, if the TPs are coming from the formation and the Dread is marked, it's even more lopsided.

4 Dread CC attacks kill .83 [4(1÷2)(5÷6)(1÷2)] to 1.11 [ 4(1÷2)(5÷6)(2÷3) ] TPs/turn, depending on what RP the TPs are getting. He needs to kill 5.

The TPs can easily take off 2 HPs on the charge
(.56 from Pistols, 1.33 from CC, assuming Dread kills one). So. Statistically speaking, the Dread should have about 1 HP to go, and the TPs should be 4 strong, at the end of one round.

Obviously, those numbers double if they are in the formation and the Dread is marked. In other words, he dies in one round.

Also, this ignores the fact the TPs will likely have Pens, due to rending, which will further limit the Dreads ability.

One error, the RP is either 5+ or 6+ because ID. Although I forgot to count the pistols' shooting.

 MLKTH wrote:
Here's my take on a decurion with double harvests:

Overlord (shifter, veil, scythe)
5 Lychguard (swords & shields)
6 Immortals
10 Warriors + Ark
10 Warriors + Ark
5 Tomb Blades (beamers, 3+ saves, scopes)

6 Wraiths (all coils)
6 Scarabs
Spyder

6 Wraiths (all coils)
6 Scarabs
Spyder

1848

The overlord costs exactly the same as Zahndrekh, who I've been using up to now, but I think warscythe and veil might be better than zealot and 2+ save. Zahndrekh of course does all sorts of other stuff, but in this list the rest isn't so obviously useful, and while he's default warlord trait is perfect for lychguard, not being much of a fighter himself is a bit problematic in that unit.

This is a interesting list I do like it though a lot.

Agreed. Even though Wraiths and voidblade Praetorians hit hard, they should rarely charge an intact walker and definitely never PLAN to do so. They're more of a mop up crew than an alpha strike. Strip off a hull point or two with gauss flayers first, then get stuck in and take off the last one or two points. Warriors, Immortals, Wraiths, Scarabs, Spyders, voidblade Praetorians, shield Lychguard and even Tomb Blades are all durable generalists, and need to work in concert with the rest of the force. There's no reason for them to go at it solo unless you have no other choice.

There are some reasons, most walkers we can glance down, but if god forbid, you meet ad-lance. I've math-hammered it out , and VB praets are the best bet. it takes upwards of 170 gauss shots to bring down a lance knight, which is more dakka than most people can afford to use on it. If you bring that many warriors, they are all goinf to get stomped and swept by the other 2. 2 squads of VB praets will comfortably remove a knight, before stomps, and if they dont, fearless + armor3+ should make it so that you arent immediately rekt.

Dreadnaughts? yeah gauss all the way, 4++ re-rollable from shooting, VB praets all day every day.

What is ad-lance?

Sorry, adamantium lance. 3 imperial knights, when within 3" of eachother re-roll their invulns. It can be a pain to deal with. Not super common, but if you play competitively you could see it pop up.

Ah, I see. True, seems sensible to assault that (although flanking gauss Tomb Blades might help as well). Just need to decide whether to get Wraiths (expensive, but invul helps against battlecannon and chainsaw, can hit first if upgraded), Praetorians (same offensive potential for less points) or Scarabs (cheaper, higher offensive potential, much more vulnerable).

Scarabs are terrible versus knights, WS 2 means they only hit 1/3 attacks, severely handicaps them.
Other than that, yeah , it's all points dependant.

Knights usually are ws4, so it is 4+ to hit, not 5+.

I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.

Yeah, you are right, it is the exception.

What do you people do about your scarabs losing combat, then failing leadership and being wiped out completely due to poor initiative? This has happened to me twice.

xghostmakerx wrote:
What do you people do about your scarabs losing combat, then failing leadership and being wiped out completely due to poor initiative? This has happened to me twice.

Realize that they're Fearless and they don't make morale tests?

darn it!

xD

What do you people do about your scarabs losing combat, then failing leadership and being wiped out completely due to poor initiative? This has happened to me twice.

Mate, all canopteks are fearless, Wraiths/scarabs/spyders. They're service robots, the wraith heavy weapon is a vacuum cleaner. they don't know what fear is.

Alright, I have a base list and possible variants for Adepticon and I'd like some feedback on it.

CAD
Lord (Warscythe)

Immortals x5 in Night Scythe
Immortals x5 in Night Scythe

Flayed Ones x13

Destroyer Cult
Destroyer Lord (Voidreaper, Phase Shifter)
Heavy Destroyers x3
Destroyers x3 (one Heavy)
Destroyers x3 (one Heavy)
Destroyers x3 (one Heavy)

Conclave of the Burning One
Nightbringer
Cryptek (God Shackle, Phase Shifter, Veil of Darkness)
Cryptek (Phase Shifter, Staff of Light

1844

Possible changes include:

-Dropping 3 Flayed Ones to give the Lord a Phase Shifter and Gauntlet of the Conflagrator. Would make him a lot more scary to drop on a target, and harder to remove once he got there. Though it doesn't really matter as much, as the DLord will probably be the Warlord.

-Changing the DLord's Voidreaper to a regular Warscythe for another Flayed One, splitting the FOs into 2 units of 7. This grants another Infiltrator unit and more map presence, but each are more easy to kill.

-Dropping the Lord and cutting the Flayed Ones to 7, using a CCB with a Warscythe as the HQ. Gives another good durable fire magnet target, and another unit on the map that can move really fast, hold objectives, and/or kill certain units. Unfortunately makes the Flayed Ones much weaker.

Thoughts?

It's a nice list, just a few points.

Firstly, i'm not familiar with adepticon, but i know that a lot of tournies limit you to 2 detatchments, so you mightn't be able to run CAD+formation+formation.

Other than that. With that many Destroyers, you don't want anyone getting up your field, would you consider dropping voidreaper for the solar staff +1 flayed one? It allows you to drop in from reserves in their face, with an immediate threat.

D-lord + flayed ones DS in, pop the staff at the start of their turn. you're only real weakness would be a walker, which shouldn't be popping up too often. Anything else you can drown in saves.

The C'tan is already T8 with effectively 8 wounds and FNP/RP so it wouldn't be much of a loss on him.

Finally, the only thing i notice, but again i don't know the tourney, Is your vulnerability to knights. 1 shouldn't be an issue, but it would take a lot of fire power, 2 would be worse, and an ad-lance would walk all over you.

Dreadknights could also be an issue, but, H-destroyers should remove them easily enough.

Best of luck, hope it works for you.

Adepticon allows as many Detachments as you like, but each one (including CAD and Allied) is Unique 0-1. So you can have lots of detachments, but can't spam one OP one.

I have reservations about deep striking Flayed Ones (without Imotekh, at least). Especially if I'm going to put an expensive Character in there, scattering a big unit like that is scary. Deep Striking the Conclave is easier, as 3 models with fairly small bases are extremely hard to mishap. Flayed Ones are set to Infiltrate/Outflank.

I don't fear Knights too badly. 6 Destroyers and 6 Heavy Destroyers with Tank Hunter as well as Night Scythes and the Gauss Immortals within can easily strip one of Hull Points and get around to multiple facings to limit the amount of Invuln saves. AdLance scares me, but I think I have enough map presence and mobility that I could play the objectives around them.

Dreadknights don't scare me in the least. Heavy Destroyers will shoot them dead, the Conclave will murder them (might even do so with lucky Power rolls and Gaze), and even Flayed Ones can bog it down and put some wounds on.

I'm most worried about Knights and other Superheavies (like the dreaded Lynx), but I think it can be dealt with.

Yeah, i think your list is well rounded, but someone speecing right into a niche will walk all over you, same with most lists. 300 ork boyz beat anything without enough large blasts. Ad-lance are the same deal, you need to build to beat them and only them really.

As long as you know your plan though. any plans for dealing with draigo/tiggy/invis/centstar? could remove your C'tan (4+/4++) or heavy destroyers instantly.

harkequin wrote:
I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.

Daaamn. I never noticed it before, the tables on digital and print rulebooks are different! On the print version (both assault rules on page 49 and reference section in the back) has the good old table that follows the same logic all the way through (so 4+ until against more than double WS), but the digital version really does have that strange anomaly on 2 vs 4.

harkequin wrote:
Yeah, i think your list is well rounded, but someone speecing right into a niche will walk all over you, same with most lists. 300 ork boyz beat anything without enough large blasts. Ad-lance are the same deal, you need to build to beat them and only them really.

As long as you know your plan though. any plans for dealing with draigo/tiggy/invis/centstar? could remove your C'tan (4+/4++) or heavy destroyers instantly.

Well the shooting from them I don't really fear. Destroyers will always be in cover (Move Through Cover from the formation + Jet thrust moves) means that I can get into cover or if they get off Ignores Cover, I can throw them behind LOS blockers hopefully.

The Conclave is there to help deal with Deathstars like Centstar. Gaze of Death doesn't care about Invisibility, and hopefully I can just spread out the rest to overload targets. Centstar is annoying, but I think as long as Vortex doesn't straight up remove any of my power units I should be fine. But yeah that's a big if.

I take back everything I said about Scarab Dash being a gimmick. Dug out my models and ran a few simulations, with 6 Spyders, starting on the deployment zone edge. You can reliably spawn scarabs up to 12" into the center of the battlefield in the first movement phase without even moving the scarabs. Their 12" movement carries a few of them them all them way to the enemies deployment zone edge, within charge range.

If you go first, a first turn charge could be invaluable tool to monkey wrench enemy forces.

I tried it with 6 Spyders, but I believe you could still accomplish it with a minimum of 4 Spyders.

 MLKTH wrote:

harkequin wrote:
I thought so too, then i checked the chart, Ws2 - Ws4, is like the only exception to it xD. And i did check, WS2 vs WS4 is 5's to hit.

Daaamn. I never noticed it before, the tables on digital and print rulebooks are different! On the print version (both assault rules on page 49 and reference section in the back) has the good old table that follows the same logic all the way through (so 4+ until against more than double WS), but the digital version really does have that strange anomaly on 2 vs 4.

That's a typo.

I dont know if I would get to used to the scarab idea.

There's nothing wrong with it; it is perfectly legal... but if history has taught us anything in this game, anytime an army found a legal way for the first player to get off a first turn charge, it was immediately faq'ed out.

That's a typo.

Which one? and how do you know, seriously asking this could make scarabs the defacto solution to knights, the potential buff/nerf here is massive.

Personally i'd reckon the Digital one would be updated and so more reliable?