Rough Riders

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**Orlanth**

Some questions.

1. Will one squadron be enough?

2. How many in the squadron/each squadron, 6, 8 or 10 riders?

3. Can I have a power weapon and hunting lance on the sergeant?

4. Do I bother anyway with a power weapon for the second round of combat?

**Grimaldi**

1. Probably. You'll always run into exceptions, but one squad is probably the right number a plurality of times.

2. 6 or 8 I like squads of 8, but I've seen 6 used fairly often, too, especially if running 2 squads.

3. yes

4. no

**H.B.M.C.**

You won't be around for a second round of combat, especially if there's only 6 of you.

Save the 5 points and spend 'em elsewhere.

BYE

**Orlanth**

Why not? After all you should do quite well in ther first round, but there might be something afterwards, a power weapon could give you a chance against it.

If it was 10pts I would agree, but I thinki I could afford five points.

Also what if you have squadrons of eight or ten.

**tegeus-Cromis**

It isn't 5 points though, is it? It's 11 in total (what do you need the vet sgt upgrade for?).

Besides, the guy's got what, 2 attacks the turn after the charge? 3? He's going to average half a MEq kill assuming 3 attacks. That's hardly going to make a difference.

**Orlanth**

I think the raw sgt upgrade is worthwhile as you get an extra lance attack for that.

**Polonius**

I run two squads of 6 in nearly every list, I think any time you could use 1 squad two will be helpful.

I ran power weapons for a while, they never accomplished much. I'd rather put the Power Weapon on a counter charge JO to spread out my power weapons. Others will disagree, but I agree with HBMC that RR power weapons are an upgrade of last resort.

I always take the vet sgt upgrade, it's an extra lance attack for 6 pts and LD 8 is worth it, especailly since RRs are often outside of a leadership bubble.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Given that a standard RR is two lance attacks on the charge for 11 points, I don't see the vet upgrade as such a bargain. I guess the Ld is always good, but do you find it matters so much for 6 guys? Won't they usually just die outright if shot at?

**Tacobake**

I think the +1 ld is more so maybe that one guy can stick in combat for an extra turn or two.

What about melta bombs, are they worth it?

**Orlanth**

Ok. I weant to hear the general concensuas , if any, on squadron size. Assuming I am only taking one squadron, and for two.

**Tacobake**

I would say six and six. I would not take two vets in two squads.

What about this: Instead of two squads, take one squad of 10 and give it a vet. But when you charge you charge multiple squads at once. I suppose that defeats the point of a counter-charge squad.

**Mnemoch**

Take 6, upgrade one to a vet, and give them all lances (no power sword). The powersword is worthless, as against enemies that it's really useful for (marines) will strike before you and kill him before he can strike anyways.

You strike hard on the charge, taking any losses on the troops. That way, if you lose the combat you can use the sgts upgraded Ld to stay in the fight. On your opponents assualt phase, remove the sgt as a casualty first so that even if you're not wiped out, you'll run easier (allowing you to shoot him in your next shooting phase).

**Polonius**

The vet upgrade costs 6pts, which is just over half the cost of an additional trooper. For that, you get half the attacks from that trooper (+1) as well as +1 leadership. It's up to you if the exchange is worth it.

I would never take one big squad of 10. The problem there is difficulty getting all the lances into combat, as well as hiding the squad.

**MinMax**

If you want two squads, take 6 in both. If you want one squad, which is the way I run Rough Riders, take 8 in it.

The Veteran upgrade is rarely worth it, but it can be helpful if you're out of your Leadership bubble, which is likely.

**Grimaldi**

I'd say no on melta-bombs. IG is all about lots of cheap units, so you're going to need pretty strong justification to carry them. Is your IG army seriously lacking in anti-tank firepower? If so, to the point you need RRs with meltabombs, maybe the rest of the list needs help. RRs are to weak to go hunt enemy tanks that sit back and shoot, so you should only be worried about vehicles that are charging your lines. Those are usually pretty lightly armored anyway, and because they are moving, you'll need 6s to hit. Not worth it.

**H.B.M.C.**

Orlanth wrote:Why not? After all you should do quite well in ther first round, but there might be something afterwards, a power weapon could give you a chance against it.

If it was 10pts I would agree, but I thinki I could afford five points.

Squad of 6 charges 10 assault Marines. They kill... say... 6 of them. Four Marines swing back (including Mr. Power fist) and kill 4-5 of them. Ok cool, the Sergeant will survive to the second round! Go, go, power weapons!

Wait... now he's I3... and he swings after the 3 angry Marines... and dies before swinging.

No Orlanth, I3 power weapons do not swing. Spend the points elsewhere.

BYE

**Grimaldi**

More importantly, you want the RRs to die after the 2nd round of combat on the enemy's turn. Then they're stuck in the open, ready for you to shoot them apart on your (upcoming) turn. Why give them a useless PW to hinder that?

**Dakkaladd**

Another option to the plan of letting them die on the second round of combat is to hit smaller units that they can break in one round of combat. The RR unit is something that gets misused alot since it's alot more like fantasy than 40k in that your first round of combat is generally the most important. Personally, I'd use a unit of 6 to run at the 5 man las/plas squads that people seem to favor for marines. Or you might even kill a whole fire warrior team with em. Basically, I'm of the opinion that if you build a squad with the intention of it dying, then it tends to die. However, if you make an effort to use and design the squad effectively then it will most likely do much better.

As for the power weapon and veteran upgrade, unless you absolutely have something else to spend the 11 points on, it's not a terrible investment.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Basically, I'm of the opinion that if you build a squad with the intention of it dying, then it tends to die. However, if you make an effort to use and design the squad effectively then it will most likely do much better.

You assume that an RR squad that charges and then dies has not been effective.

You assume wrong.

**Wehrkind**

I agree that a Str3 I3 Power weapon is largely a waste of points. The main trouble is hitting on 4's and then wounding MEQ (your targets) on 5+ with 2-3 attacks. I have a power weapon on my one Seraphim Vet, and despite spending a LOT of time in melee, her 3 attacks base very rarely do any damage, and she is I4.

Really, your issue is that most things that want to be in melee with you are T4 or above. The only real exception that I can think of are Eldar, and even then their armor save isn't too worrysome, such that a power weapon is worth it.

What I would do if you are modeling up your Sgt is to put his sword in a sheath. Worst case then you can switch what it is without WYSIWYG issues, while being flexible with your local metagame. In general though, Str3 I3 power weapons are of questionable value, especially when you are looking for the shock value of Str6 weapons.

**Orlanth**

In was thinking of having the sgts lance attached to his saddle a bit like the lances odf old school Bret chasmpion miniatures. Then he can carry a power sword in hand.

The sword is a keeper, only now it will be the sgts free chainsword and I will take rough riders lances only.

The sgt stays though, its a nice character piece. That issue is fixed thanks to your feedback, but I might still buy 8 or 10 riders if enough people give me a good reason to do so.

The whole thread was because of my impending late order with Phoenix Club, I dont want to buy minitures I wont use, cannot afford it for starters.

**tegeus-Cromis**

S5, surely? Otherwise spot on.

**Grimaldi**

I'd say to get them. They're a great unit to have, depending on your style of play.

**Doctor Optimal**

Let's talk spec weapons; meltas, flamers or plasmas? (Or no sw, just lances?)

**Wehrkind**

Oops, Str5? My mistake. I thought the lances doubled it for some reason... Probably imagined them having krak grenades strapped to the tip once, and since then my brain has decided it is cannon

**tegeus-Cromis**

I thought you can't have specials if you take lances?

Assuming you can, though:

Plasma: Right out. You need to charge!

Flamer and melta: RRs aren't much more mobile than other troops when it comes to bringing these short-ranged weapons to bear. The cavalry charge move is of no use here and Fleet is also of no use on that one crucial turn--the turn you move into range.

So no specials.

**Wehrkind**

Particularly if you are using them for counter charging you will not be able to use the guns anyway. Probably best to keep them cheap instead of hoping off the lucky flamer shot before melee.

**Mnemoch**

No specials. They'll ususally be far enough away from their target that they won't be in range anyways, and in any case it makes them too expensive for a unit you want to use once and then let it die.

**Darkness**

2 units to be flexible, as one will only stall an opponent. The sarg upgrade for the extra attack and ld, no Pweapon though. 6 men are too small, will only be able to stop non assult armies and units. Think 8-10

**smart_alex**

1. Will one squadron be enough? YES, more is ok though

2. How many in the squadron/each squadron, 6, 8 or 10 riders? Always 10, any less will be a waste

3. Can I have a power weapon and hunting lance on the sergeant? I would say yes, but have been told you can't

4. Do I bother anyway with a power weapon for the second round of combat? S3 with PW is better than S3 without.