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I've heard of this guy referred to as a "mini-dreadnought that kicks serious ass" and after seeing that he is the 2nd cheapest Pheonix Lord and has the best mix of assault power and shooting power, I just had to get him for my footslogging Swordwind. Granted, I haven't used him yet (only tried out Jain Zar and the Avatar as I was waiting to finish painting up Maugan)

So how do you use this guy? Sit him with Dark Reapers to make them fearless and add his fire-power to theirs? Running him around as an IC and have him snipe things? Shoot the crap out of things then charge them? My problem is that he's such a bad-ass that I have no idea what role he's best at - he's good at them all! (definately not a 'point and click' character).

any tips/pointers would be welcome!

-L_C

He seems like the definition of point-and-click to me. Shoot anything other than a Monolith with him and you can't go wrong. When nasty stuff gets near, assault it with him. Rinse/repeat. He's fine marching up the board with Scorps and he's fine babysitting Reapers. If you could field an army of Maugan Ras, it would play itself.

I'm not saying he's imba. It's just that he has an assault cannon and a load of S7 PW attacks. How can you go wrong?

In 4th, you sit him anywhere you want. So long as he isn't the closest target, he cannot be shot. Most enemies won't assault him, because he'll kill them.

I run him around as a shooty HQ that can assault and kill most things in the game, so he has a 15" exclusion zone that most enemy troops don't want to enter.

I ran him with dark reapers once. It was silly overkill. I wouldn't do it.

You really only have to fear in CC: C'Tan, Wraithlords, Asurmen, Archon, Canoness, Dreadnoughts, and Hive Tyrants with Implant Attack/Maw.

Everything else, you can usually take in close combat or at worst...bring down to a single wound remaining.

Often as not, you just fire him at the enemy army until they're dead. He's really good at taking out just about anything. If you face a enemy with only 2 or 3 lascannons; I'd leave him out of units in 5th and let them try and kill him.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:It's just that he has an assault cannon and a load of S7 PW attacks. How can you go wrong?

S6.

tegeus-Cromis wrote:He seems like the definition of point-and-click to me. Shoot anything other than a Monolith with him and you can't go wrong. When nasty stuff gets near, assault it with him. Rinse/repeat. He's fine marching up the board with Scorps and he's fine babysitting Reapers. If you could field an army of Maugan Ras, it would play itself.

I'm not saying he's imba. It's just that he has an assault cannon and a load of S7 PW attacks. How can you go wrong?

Strength 6 I believe although not too shabby either. Jain Zar is strength 7 on the assault.

In most of my games >1500 I use Maugan and Eldrad. Ra becomes much scarier in combat when hidden fists can be mind wared. He also provides AV14 killing power, so you don't have to worry if you don't have fire dragons/bright lances.

I wouldn't advise hanging him back with the reapers. Fearless vs mobility should be a no brainer.

He's barely effected by V.V. either: BS 7 mitigates the rending nerf and the fist nerf makes up for the IC nerf. (all these nerfs, lol)

-Leo037

He's better not hanging with the Reapers. With Ld.9 the Reapers don't need Fearless as much as you need to be able to split your shots. Also, as Stelek said, they are often overkill together. Better to split them up, shoot with one, then decide whether to pile shots from the other in to finish a target off, or fire on a different unit. Finally, Maugan Ra is decent vs. vehicles, where the Reapers should never shoot anything tougher than a Sentinel or Trukk. Splitting is again an advantage over Fearless here.

I'm looking forward to fielding him against a bunch of Tyranid Gargantuan Creatures in a couple of weeks. With Karandras losing a PF attack in 5th, I think Maugan Ra is my new favorite PL.

Oops, sorry. I must have been thinking of Jain Zar when I typed that.

By "babysitting Reapers," I didn't actually mean he should join them, just sit near them and shoot. (Although he'll often have to join something in 5th.) Of course, it's probably only worthwhile if there's more than just the Reapers parked there.

Cypher037, the Rending nerf is actually not purely a nerf for Maugan Ra. Against certain targets, his Rending has actually become better. Let's say he's taking aim at a T6 fex. Right now, he can take his 5 shots and get 0.83 Rends. In 5th, assuming BS7 lets you reroll missed shots with a 5+ to hit (have I got that right?), he can take 4 shots with CS and get 0.89 Rends.

To chime in here, I wouldn't bother keeping him with reapers. It is a waste of his hand to hand abilities. The only exception to this would be if you know a deep strike army is comming, then it may be worth it (although there is also the split fire thing to think about too). Regardless, move him up and get him into the fight. Shoot at whatever needs shooting and assault whatever needs assaulting. He is a good complement to just about anything out there and since he is an IC, its easy to keep him alive. Just don't get him in base to base with any power fists and you'll be fine.

Wow, I hadn't even thought of that t-C. He's the new PotMS(ed) twin linked assault cannon.

Another problem with Ra joining the reapers is that if he leaves, he denies the reapers their shooting for the turn. If I'm not mistaken.

-Leo037

Cypher037 wrote:Another problem with Ra joining the reapers is that if he leaves, he denies the reapers their shooting for the turn. If I'm not mistaken.

How do you figure that?

In 5th if anyone moves in a unit at any point, your entire unit counts as shooting. That includes IC's leaving/joining the squad at any point.

Stelek wrote:In 5th if anyone moves in a unit at any point, your entire unit counts as shooting. That includes IC's leaving/joining the squad at any point.

Can you give us a page reference on that? I've never even heard that before.

[scurries off to find battered BGB]

Well, he did say "In 5th," Savnock. (Is there some mistake, though, Stelek? "If anyone moves, everyone counts as shooting" makes no sense.)

Phoenix, it's worthwhile if you have a firebase that's vulnerable to assaults and an opponent with highly mobile assault units. Like I said, if it's just Reapers, it's not such a great idea, but if you have more stuff there (Rangers/Pathfinders, etc.), then that's an investment worth protecting. I also don't agree that you're necessarily wasting his potential by not getting him into CC, because if he's in CC, then you could equally be said to be "wasting" his shooting for the duration of the combat.

It's just the way the design studio wants IC's to be vulnerable, and not be able to skip from your rear (firing) units to your forward (assaulting) units without a penalty.

Missed the 5th thing- sorry! Boy, that's a terrible rule.

If you have a firebase of guardians, pathfinders, and reapers in a list of say 1800pts, what advantage would Maugan Ra provide over the Avatar? Does the extra shooting justify the cost? Is being able to hide him worth the extra cost?

If you have a static firebase like you describe, the avatar is your better choice. You can hide him and use the Fearless bubble, and keep him there as a countercharge threat. If you're fielding Reapers, this can be a good approach.

Why hide the Avatar and use him in static lists rather than forward-moving lists? Well, if you have no vehicles or other MCs (like Wraithlords), then the Avatar can end up a sitting duck for your opponents' otherwise-idle antitank fire. If he's out charging towards the enemy, this is a serious problem. If you have a couple other MCs, vehicles etc. to distract the anti-tank wepaons, the Avatar can move forwards. otherwise, keep him in the bushes.

If, however, you have an advancing firebase (one that uses the mobility of weapons platforms, Warwalkers, etc. to advance while firing, eventually taking the middle of the table or some objective), but one without MCs or vehicles, then Maugan Ra is the better choice. Maugan Ra can hide inside units (or just not be the closest target, but that's goign away in 5th). His counter-charge is great. And the maugetar is really useful against MEQ. I think the Fearless bubble is often worth more as it enhances so many of your units, but YMMV.

Of the two styles of firebase (advancing and static), I prefer to advance. Capturing objectives and rooting out enemy from heavy cover are way better than trying to shoot 'em up from a distance, even if you have one or two mobile units to go after prize targets.

So

Static (the list you describe above), with no other MCs/vehicles, go with the Avatar.

Advancing with no MCs/vehicles, go with Maugan Ra.

Advancing with (ideally at least two) other MCs/vehicles, go with the Avatar.

Savnock, thanks for the advice.

I'm trying to change my usual list from mobile to a mixed list but I haven't yet had a lot of experience with the new (for me) approach. I still have two falcons with harlis and dragons; the rest of the list I'm going to try the walking firebase. I think I would be generally advancing with them rather than be static. I haven't yet decided on WWs or WL or Reapers for the third HS. From what you've said, it seems that if I went with Reapers, then Ra is a better bet.

In the two games I've tried the Avatar, he did take a lot of lascannon shots (once the falcons had the obligatory shaken results), and with some bad luck with my fortune rolls was out of the games by turn two or three. I guess that was why this thread on Maugan got me thinking.

Savnock, disagree heartily. Guardians, Pathfinders, Reapers--if they're hanging back, the only thing that really needs Fearlessness is the Guardians. You can get around that by playing peek-a-boo with the weapons crew (initially, only expose one crew member, and no other member of the squad). 150-odd points for just counter-charge and a Fearless bubble is not worth it for Eldar. In my experience, the Avatar needs to get stuck in and soak shots to fully justify his cost. I run a Guardian-heavy list, but even then I found him to be almost deadweight when he didn't get to fulfill these functions (i.e. when I had to hold my army back).

I just recently used Maugan Ra for the first time in a 1000pt game against my buddies Dark Angels.

I was using my footslogging Swordwind:

-Maugan Ra
-1 medium unit of Banshees with a tooled up Exarch w. Executioner
-1 medium unit of Scorpions with a tooled up Exarch w. Biting Blade
-1 small unit of Avengers
-1 small unit of Rangers
-1 small unit of Spiders with a tooled up Exarch w. dual guns and blades
-1 full squad of Dark Reapers with an Exarch w. Crackshot

He had

-Jump Chaplain
-5 Assault Marines
-2 x 10 tactical marines
-Dreadnought with Assault Cannon
-Predator Tank
-Whirlwind

We were playing on a swap/wooded table, and he decided that he wanted to shoot me out of my hole then assault my weaker flank with the Marines. If it hadn't been for Maugan Ra, I would have been in a tight spot. Maugan claimed the Predator on the first turn, the dreadnought, the chaplain (the Reapers having killed the ASMs after they had promptly failed their Massacre move after eating the Avengers), and six tactical Marines.
I have to say that his shooting was what thrilled me the most - he was just so damnably good at dropping tanks!

t-C, I find that when exposed and Fortuned the Avatar sucks plenty of shots from the WLs, WWs, etc. When hiding, his value really comes in deterrence. It's all the charging that doesn't go on that makes him worthwhile, IMO. But your mileage may have varied from mine in the past. It's sort of academic for me, as I really don't advise static Guardian lists anyways.

randyc, if you want to advance Reapers are not the best bet. Better to go with WW or WL. I'd say the latter, as they're tougher and the BS4 antitank power of an EML/BL WL is pretty sweet. But you already have 2 Falcons occupying HS slots, so 3 WWs is probably your best bet overall. Mixed mobility works well, and is a nice change after the relative fragility of mech (well, apart from the Falcons).

Lady_Canoness, that sounds about par for the course. Was Ra with the Reapers, initially, or on his own? Sounds like he was on his own. Nice shootin'!