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Okay, this came up in my last game, and my HQ choices for the future depend on the answer.

In the front of the orky rulebook, it discusses mob rule. Namely, 'orks may always replace their leadership score with the number of orks in the mob".

Now, that being stated, psykers must make a leadership check to use a power on their turn. Technically, the orky Weirdboy, attached to a group of 30 slugga's, would have a 30 leadership, which would make his psyker checks always succeed (except on a 2 or 12, of course). Is that correct? The player in my last game said that mob rule did not apply to psyker abilities, but it never explicitly states that. On the contrary, it says that his leadership is equal to the number of orks. It makes no claim of being limited to fear, or firing checks.

So I ask you plainly, does an ork Weirdboy use mob rule to determine his leadership for his POTW check?

The Weirdboy can get his leadership improved up to 10. It does not state that his leadership can go over 10, only that if it is over 11 models, the squad is fearless. I think that he tests on leadership 10, with an 11 failing, and 2/12 is perils of the warp

In using my Weirdboy, I've made the determination that, for purposes of Leadership checks for an Ork in a 11+ mob, his Ld tops out at 10. That's mainly because auto-success with powers, not to mention immunity to psychic hoods ("You rolled a 6, I rolled a 2... that's 16 to 32, I win..."), seems to be a little beyond the pale.

Remember that Fearless units sometimes have to use their Ld for things like target priority tests. That's one reason why all units have Ld ratings as well as having the Fearless rule, rather than the Fearless rule being a natural extension of Ld values going beyond 11. For the purpose of psychic tests, as well as target priority, the unit tests on its Ld. Fearless only applies to Morale tests and Pinning tests. Ld10 for Ork psychic powers ain't bad - they gotta 'eadbang sometime!

Yes, you can use Mob Rule for the psychic test (not "POTW check," by the way), but as stated in the BGB, Ld caps out at 10.

tegeus-Cromis wrote: but as stated in the BGB, Ld caps out at 10.

...which you can ignore, as the codex says that you instead use the number of Boyz in the mob.

Indeed it would seem a misconception (or more likely just an oversight) that wierdboy leadership is capped at 10 in a mob of that size or larger. Looking to the ork codex we can see:

1. "Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of orks in their mob for their normal leadership value. If an ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the fearless special rule." Codex: Orks, p. 31

If we look at this closely it would seem as though mobs of 11+ not only get their number in leadership but also the fearless rule, which admittedly will make the leadership=boys rule pointless, but not in the case of psychic powers.

2."Remember that a wierdboy's leadership is affected by Mob Rule (see page 31). Codex: Orks, p. 37

So the codex reminds us that his leadership is affected by Mob Rule. Since fearless does not affect psychic tests, we revert to the number of the models in the unit as per the Mob Rule special rule.

Though I can see this being an issue for a FAQ, let's not hold our breath.

Sure, the Mob rule means the player can always substitute the number of Orks for their Leadership rating, it's just that the highest Leadership you can have get is 10. Hence if you have 9 Orks, you can have Ld9, and 10 Orks, you can have Ld10, and 11 Orks, you can have Ld10 and Fearless, and 12 Orks, you can have Ld10 and Fearless, and so on. The Mob rule simply yields diminishing returns over counts of 11 models.

Unless this has changed, rules in a codex typically override those printed in the main rulebook. As such, an arguement could be made that by substituting the number of orks in the mob for their leadership, you are ignoring the Ld 10 cap presented in the BGB.

Except that the rule for counting the number of Orks in the mob for their leadership does not contradict the rule that leadership is capped at 10, as I've explained. They complement each other quite nicely.

Dakkaladd wrote:
1. "Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of orks in their mob for their normal leadership value. If an ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the fearless special rule." Codex: Orks, p. 31

It would seem to me as though this indicates that you can have a leadership of 11 or 12 or even more. Gaining the fearless rule makes the actual leadership irrelevant for morale checks because they auto pass. If we agree that mob rule does override the normal leaderhip rules then for the purposes of psychic tests the wierdboy can be effectively LD 12 in his mob. Yet another problem with clarification on GW's part.

RAW, they use the number in the mob as the leadership value. The rule you are refering to Nurglitch I believe refers to a statline. There is no modification to statline here.

5Th edition,Copyright Games Workshop 2008 would supercede The Ork Codex Copyright Games Workshop 2007. Page 50, 2nd paragraft "To use a psychic power successfully the psyker must pass a Psychic test, which is a normal leadership test. Note that this test must always be on the psyker own leadership value. Even where leadership tests would normally be taken on the value of another model, test for using psychic powers are always taken using the psykers own leadership

patghiggins wrote:5Th edition,Copyright Games Workshop 2008 would supercede The Ork Codex Copyright Games Workshop 2007. Page 50, 2nd paragraft "To use a psychic power successfully the psyker must pass a Psychic test, which is a normal leadership test. Note that this test must always be on the psyker own leadership value. Even where leadership tests would normally be taken on the value of another model, test for using psychic powers are always taken using the psykers own leadership

Errm... What???

Firstly, That's not how 40k Works... Seriously...
Secondly, it is not using another models Ld, the Weidboyz Ld is 10, because of the Mob Rule Special Rule.

Dakkaladd wrote:Unless this has changed, rules in a codex typically override those printed in the main rulebook. As such, an arguement could be made that by substituting the number of orks in the mob for their leadership, you are ignoring the Ld 10 cap presented in the BGB.

Dakkaladd, its not an issue of codicies overruling the big rule book, its an issue of specific overruling general. While there are very few rules that do superceed the codicies, this is one. The rule states that "However NO modifier may raise any characteristic above 10 or lower it below 0." (emphasis mine PG. 6 BRB) which is more specific than the codicies rule that their leadership is the number of figures in the squad. I cant think of another rule in the BRB that is more specific than a codex, but IIRC, there is at least one more.

I did vote yet on this one though as he does have mob rule on his entry in the Ork codex

Sweeping Advance is another Example.

This is answered in the FIRST FAQ question on the official GW Ork Codex FAQ:

Q. Can a Weirdboy’s Leadership be increased to more than 10 by the Mob Rule?

A. No, it can be increased, but only up to a maximum of 10.

/thread

polling pwnd by a GW "FAQ"..... never thought I'd see the day...

Thread is 2 years old. Just thought I'd point that out.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.