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First Time poster, Had a discussion with my friends tonight after a friendly game.

In the 5th edition leak rules you are allowed to use vehicles to ram other vehicles.

So my friend that plays Orks starts talking about the applications of trucks and ramming in the new rules. And here's what he thought of:

Taking his trucks full of boyz he would go full bore 24 inches after tanks and other vehicles and ram them. Included on his trucks are reinforced rams. All this included if he hit at the end of his movement he'd effectively have a S10 + 1d6 vs. a vehicles armor. His hope is that this will not only destroy his target, but also wreck his truck. Where he can use the Ork open-topped wreck chart to get out and assault any unit in range (including troops escaping a destroyed transport).

Now he has around 8 trucks in his army right now, and that addition would make it even more sick. Anyone have any input on this at all? Comments? Something that might make this not so heinous?

For starters, fast only move 18 in the new edition.

Oh thank god, I totally forgot about that! Still a potential S8 +1d6 hit though, not too shabby. Chances that it'll wreck the truck though are a bit slimmer unless he's hitting something hard.

sounds very Orky.

It's not what it's cracked up to be.

18/3=6.

So it's a S6+D6 hit on them, and if you ram a tank it's a S7+D6 hit on you instead of S6+D6.

In short, it's silly.

The only real use is against dreads, which since tank shock won't auto-kill them anymore...is not that great.

It's weak all around.

Or just leave your tanks at home, they probably won't be worth their points anyways.

I could see the very rare case where you might want to ram something with your trukk or Deldar raider just in the hopes that your own vehicle dies so you get to disembark + fleet + assault after moving >12". S3 hit and a pin check? Ohnoes!

Lame sure, but you'll see it happen, with ramming or in the case of skimmers driving flank speed into terrain that is right next to your guys, hoping to catch a 1 on 2d6 for the difficult terrain roll.

3rd ed disembark rules ftw?

Don't forget about the reinforced rams

Yup. Those reinforced rams are pretty cool. They can break up Necron phalanxes like nothing else.

Something that stops ramming Trukks cold (or gets amusingly splatted) is a Furioso Dreadnought. They have a Melta Gun and Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons, so they can Death or Glory ramming vehicles pretty well.

Mind you, the Orks only fall for that twice... The next time it's their wrecking balls on your sarcophagus.

Stelek wrote:It's not what it's cracked up to be.

18/3=6.

So it's a S6+D6 hit on them, and if you ram a tank it's a S7+D6 hit on you instead of S6+D6.

In short, it's silly.

The only real use is against dreads, which since tank shock won't auto-kill them anymore...is not that great.

It's weak all around.

Its more than strength 6, you get 6 for moving 18", +2 for the ram giving you +2 front armor in tank shocks (its +1 for each armor point above 10 you have), and ramming is a type of tank shock, otherwise the truck couldnt do it, its not a tank.

There are a couple of other +1's but I dont recall what they are... So there is more to consider than just distance for the strength of the hit.

This is orks btw, a oirk truck is like 35 pts? I'm not sure but if you put a mega armoured Nob quad in there that could do some serious damage in CC as a ramming makes a perfect stop.

You get +2 armour against death or glory attacks, it doesn't say 'in tank shocks'. (ork codex pg 93)

I could see using this against battle taxis (rhino esp). Plus as one poster noted, if you destroy your trukk, your boys get out and get to fight!

17" with red paint job, smash your truck, get out and assault isn't too shabby, and is totally an ork-y tactic.

I can't wait to start my KOS army!

Yeah orks roll a different chart for damage, they dont actully get hurt much

Isn't there a good chance the Ork Boyz inside would die? Or am I just not familiar with the Ork rules? Or maybe it's just that I know nothing about 5th so far, and have limited knowledge of 4th still.

Because if there's a slim chance of troops inside getting hurt, my Raiders (Dark Eldar) just got a LOT more hilarious.

Well the worse that happens is everyone gets a strength 3 hit on a 4+ means most wont die and will be ready to assult everyone.

Space_hoppo wrote:Well the worse that happens is everyone gets a strength 3 hit on a 4+ means most wont die and will be ready to assult everyone.

especially if you have a bosspole!

12 man squad
6 hits
2 wounds
2 die (most likely)
roll ld 10 for pinning, re-rolling from bosspole
charge!

See so if it works ands its the orky way of tranport, because there is a good chance that will not explode (it still has to roll on damage chart) so orky goodness all the way!

Anyone else remember ork transports in second edition? It carried as many boyz as you could fit on the model, and if any fell off while moving it, they took a S? hit. I think it was pretty high, like S8.

I was like 9 so no i didnt star warhammer till i was 11.

The_Landstander wrote:First Time poster, Had a discussion with my friends tonight after a friendly game.

In the 5th edition leak rules you are allowed to use vehicles to ram other vehicles.

So my friend that plays Orks starts talking about the applications of trucks and ramming in the new rules. And here's what he thought of:

Taking his trucks full of boyz he would go full bore 24 inches after tanks and other vehicles and ram them. Included on his trucks are reinforced rams. All this included if he hit at the end of his movement he'd effectively have a S10 + 1d6 vs. a vehicles armor. His hope is that this will not only destroy his target, but also wreck his truck. Where he can use the Ork open-topped wreck chart to get out and assault any unit in range (including troops escaping a destroyed transport).

Now he has around 8 trucks in his army right now, and that addition would make it even more sick. Anyone have any input on this at all? Comments? Something that might make this not so heinous?

The gakky thing about the whole ramming rule is that they are originally from 2nd edition, I am rather pissed off with GW taking off rules and re-using em just to make a new edition.

Space_hoppo wrote:See so if it works ands its the orky way of tranport, because there is a good chance that will not explode (it still has to roll on damage chart) so orky goodness all the way!

no, due to the "ramshakle" rule, it rolls on a different table once for each pen hit, taking the highest one.

but even a "1" on the roll will crunch the trukk.

if the trukk is penetrated (and if it rams a AV13-14 tank, it will take a 6+3-4+1=str 10 hit, which is auto pen.

I would totally go ahead and ram the landraider, cause you will get out, and hopefully not be too far away to charge for 4 str9 Powerklaw hits! it's not an autokill, but it is a neat trick!

Ork player "I'm gonna ram your landraider!"
Marine player "that's the dumbest thing I ever heard of"
Ork player "ok, so my truck kreunches, and the orks get out.
Marine player "wait, what?"
Ork player"and in the assault phase they are going to charge your devastator squad!
Marine player "WHAT!"

Thats what i ment with the damage chart. I rammed a Vindicator with the new rules in a pre 5th ed match at my GW. It blew it to bits, skidded into a squad of marines next to it, then ran at them like idiots and hacked them to bits.

Not even, point your guns on them and BOOM!

Well,

Models may not disembark if their transport moved over 12"

Did the transport move over 12" in that turn? If yes...


Emergency disembark. Models may do nothing until the end of their following turn. (paraphrase).

No rules in front of me, but that would be my quick flow chart to determine what was happening.

Sounds nice, but I don't think it'll hold up.

PapaNurgle wrote:Well,

Models may not disembark if their transport moved over 12"

Did the transport move over 12" in that turn? If yes...

The orks are not moving, they are assaulting and open topped vehicles allow disembarked models to assault after the vehicle has moved, there is no distance defined after wich this rule does not apply as far as I know.

Emergency disembark. Models may do nothing until the end of their following turn. (paraphrase).

The emergency disembarkment rules deal with 4 situations:
vehicle suffers a penetrating hit after moving upp to 6" and more than 6" but does not explode or is wrecked
Orks follow thise rules just like anyone else.

Vehicle explodes or is wrecked after moving upp to 6" an more than 6".
In this situation the ramshackle rule steps in and the passengers suffer the effects of it rather than the core rules.
In the core rules, when a vehicle explodes or is wrecked the passangers suffer from entanglement.
Entanglement is basically pinning but no unit can resist it, they are actually not pinned, rather frantically climbing out of the wreck.

As orks have the ramshackle effect they check that and thus passengers on trukks can never become entangled.
Worst case, every passenger and every other model within D6" of the truck suffers a S3 hit, normal saves apply, surviving passengers dissembark and take a pinning test.

Thus yes, passengers on a trukk that survive and pass their pinning test may assault.

No rules in front of me, but that would be my quick flow chart to determine what was happening.

Sounds nice, but I don't think it'll hold up.

In short:
The method can be used but...
#1: the vehicle must be open topped
#2: the vehicle must not suffer a penetrating, vehicle destroyed or vehicle explodes result .
#3: if the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit but survives then the unit must pass their pinning.
#2: in explodes or destroyed situation it can still be used with a trukk providing the orks pass their pinning test.

Nice tactic really and very orky

It's only going to be a valid tactic for Ork Trukks because the Ramshackle table supersedes the normal emergency disembarkation rules. The ramshackle table specifically says that the passengers "disembark."

I've got to admit that this tactic never occurred to me before reading this.

Before everybody continues to go off on how Ork Trukks get to ram. Lets go to the 5th Ed Rulebook and the Ork Codex:

Question: Can Ork Trukks with Reinforced Rams perform a RAMMING manouvre?


Supporting Arguments:

1. Vehicles are classed in the combination following ways:

5th Edition Rulebook:

Pg 65 - Vehicle Types -

Transport vehicles
TANKS
Open Topped Vehicles
Fast Vehicles
Skimmers
Walkers

2. Relevant structure of the rules section for TANKS:

Pg 68 - TANKS -

Sub-Section under TANKS called Tank Shock!

3. Relevant rules under Tank Shock!:

If an enemy unit other than another vehicle is reached (including any model in an artillery unit), the unit must take a Morale check and will immediately fall back if it fails it. If the test is passed the unit will simply let the tank move through, as if it was not there. Regardless of the result of the test, the vehicle keeps moving straight on, possible tank shocking more any units until it reaches its final position. If the tank accidentally moves into contact with a friendly model or comes within 1" of an enemy vehicle, it immediately stops moving.

4. Sub-Sub-Section under Tank Shock! called Death or Glory! (with slightly smaller font than the Tank Shock font and Ramming font)

5. Sub-Section under TANKS called Ramming (same font size and emphasis than the Tank Shock section)(pg 69)

6. Wording for Ramming:

Ramming is a desperate maneovre and means that the TANK must concentrate on moving at top speed towards one enemy vehicle. This means that it may not shoot in the that turn's Shooting phase, making it an attractive choice for vehicles that have no armanent left, or are shaken.

Ramming is a special type of tank shock move and is executed the same way, except that the TANK must always move at the highest speed it is capable of. Units other than vehicles in the way of a ramming TANK are tank shocked as normal. However, if the ramming TANK comes into contact with an enemy vehicle, the collision is resolved as follows: I am not going to quote the entire rules

7. Here is the relevant quote from the Ork Codex Page 93:

Ork drivers often miss the thrill of close combat and modify their vehicles so they can use them as a weapon in themselves. A vehicle with a reinforced ram can Tank Shock, and treats its front armour as two higher than normal when resolving Death or Glory
attacks (to a maximum of 14). Furthermore the vehicle may re-roll Dangerous Terrain tests.

Conclusions:

1. So based on the structure of the TANKS section: RAMMING is a different manouvre than Tank Shock. Vehicles classed as TANKS can perform one or the other type of manouvre. TANKS that perform a RAMMING manouvre can perform a Tank Shock if they contact a non-vehicle enemy unit. Tanks that declare a Tank Shock cannot perform a RAMMING manouvre if they contact a vehicle. In fact they stop immediately if they come within 1".

2. Ork Vehicles with Reinforced Rams may only perform a Tank Shock manouvre and therefore cannot conduct a Ramming manouvre.

So, you're trying to say that a vehicle that has reinforced -rams-, .....can't ram things?

Ridiculous. I can see the logic you used; however, it seems to stem more from a slight vagueness in wording than an intent to stop orks from being orky.

Psyrian wrote:So, you're trying to say that a vehicle that has reinforced -rams-, .....can't ram things?

Ridiculous. I can see the logic you used; however, it seems to stem more from a slight vagueness in wording than an intent to stop orks from being orky.

Only tanks have permission to ram in the 5th edition rules. Just because the Trukk has a reinforced ram doesn't suddenly mean it becomes a tank.

They may change that in an upcoming FAQ, but until then anyone who wants to ram vehicles with their Trukk is doing some wishful thinking.