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dietrich wrote:Anyone else remember ork transports in second edition? It carried as many boyz as you could fit on the model, and if any fell off while moving it, they took a S? hit. I think it was pretty high, like S8.

Yes, and have you ever seen a London tour bus style ork trukk conversion? Enough said.

Only tanks have permission to ram in the 5th edition rules. Just because the Trukk has a reinforced ram doesn't suddenly mean it becomes a tank.

They may change that in an upcoming FAQ, but until then anyone who wants to ram vehicles with their Trukk is doing some wishful thinking.

If that's so, why does the main rulebook give an example of a trukk making a ramming attack?

The text example is of a Land Raider ramming a Trukk and the picture diagram is of a Rhino ramming a Trukk.

There is no example of a Trukk doing any ramming itself.

I am sure you can ram with trucks.
Tanks ramming get +1 strength.
What I remember reading.

Gaseraki, you are wrong. Here's how ramming works -
Let's say a Predator rams an Ork Trukk and moves 10 inches to do so.

The strength of the hit the Ork Trukk takes is:

+3 for every full 3" moved
+1 for being a tank (the Predator is a tank)
+3 for every point of front armour over 10

=7

The Predator also takes a hit. The strength of the hit is:

+3 for every full 3" moved (it's own momentum works against it.)
+0 for not being a tank (the Trukk isn't a tank)
+0 for having no armour above 10

=3

As Yak said ealier, only tanks may perform ramming.

Why would the ramming plus and minus table give tanks a +1 to its strength if there were no provisions for other vehicles ramming? They would otherwise have said the strength of the hit equals armor plus one.

Krak_kirby wrote:Why would the ramming plus and minus table give tanks a +1 to its strength if there were no provisions for other vehicles ramming? They would otherwise have said the strength of the hit equals armor plus one.

Because the vehicle getting rammed hits back. If it's a tank being rammed it gets +1 Strength to the attack it gives back, if it isn't a tank it doesn't get the +1 Strength bonus.

Well, at least now I can tell the people around here who were so excited about Vyper/Land Speeder "cruise missiles" that they're out of luck.

... yes but you'll still have danger of damaged fireprisms, falcons or waveserpents "cruise missiles" (and as they are fast skimers) ramming 24" Strenth 8 (24/3) + 1 for being a tank + 2 for front armour ... yes that does mean 11 so you don't even need to move 24" to get the max strenth 10 hit ... and if you've got star engins they can then back off 12" and/or hide behind a building .... which is evil

Tri, the eldar can only move 18 like everyone else. The extra movement is in the shooting phase and not when you can ram. I think it is already posted here...

Ramming is a special type of tank shock move and is executed the same way, except that the TANK must always move at the highest speed it is capable of.

Sorry, but this is a pretty telling line.

if Ramming is a subset of TANK Shock, and the Unit can Tank Shock, than they can also Ram.

frgsinwntr wrote:Tri, the eldar can only move 18 like everyone else. The extra movement is in the shooting phase and not when you can ram. I think it is already posted here...

No, fast skimmers can still move 24 inches.

...

Sushicaddy wrote:

Space_hoppo wrote:See so if it works ands its the orky way of tranport, because there is a good chance that will not explode (it still has to roll on damage chart) so orky goodness all the way!

no, due to the "ramshakle" rule, it rolls on a different table once for each pen hit, taking the highest one.

but even a "1" on the roll will crunch the trukk.

if the trukk is penetrated (and if it rams a AV13-14 tank, it will take a 6+3-4+1=str 10 hit, which is auto pen.

I would totally go ahead and ram the landraider, cause you will get out, and hopefully not be too far away to charge for 4 str9 Powerklaw hits! it's not an autokill, but it is a neat trick!

Ork player "I'm gonna ram your landraider!"
Marine player "that's the dumbest thing I ever heard of"
Ork player "ok, so my truck kreunches, and the orks get out.
Marine player "wait, what?"
Ork player"and in the assault phase they are going to charge your devastator squad!
Marine player "WHAT!"

Now if this is a viable tactic and judging by responses so far the jury is still out. Consider adding this to the other dedicated transport rule allowing you to transport any unit in your truck now consider said truck ramming whilst full of Burnaz who then assault with power weapons.

fail

Tri wrote:er just been rereading the transport section am i right in thinking that there is no restrictions about people disembarking after moving x"

Yes there is. Check the fast vehicle rules. Units cannot embark or disembark from a vehicle that moved (or will move) flat out in that movement phase.

dam, ah well can't have it all ... though the eldar try, guess i'll just have to live with the extra 12" of movement from the star engins

The whole situation on weather a truck can ram.
no it cannot normally but by adding the reinforced ram allow you to, because it allows you to tank shock and ramming is a special type of tank shock move that the tank targets an enemy vehicle.

In the rulebook on page 69 on the ramming section.
It says the tank must concentrate on moving on full speed towards one enemy vehicle.(flat out) correct

On the next page (page 70)
Fast transport vehicles.
Passengers may not embark or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved or is going to move flat out in the movement phase.

There for to be able to assault you need to have to bail out if your broken trukk if the trunk dont brake you can't get out of your trukk there for no assault.

has anyone emailed or contacted GW about the ramming rules??

If you contact three different GW reps you'll get four different answers.

I don't particularly see this as a valid tactic.

Really unless the enemy target is a AV 13 or 14 tank they won't reliably penetrate you all the time.

Should they do so, the odds of wrecking or blowing up your trukk is 1 in 3. You may then be able to disembark, but you will hurt your guys some and then have to take a pinning check. If only 3 guys die [fairly likely], that means you're no longer fearless and with a squad of 9 remaining, the odds are still decent you'll fail the pinning check.

This is of course assuming a couple things. You could also get the kareen result, which sends the trukk flying. You could end up too far to assault anything. You could end up in impassible terrain. You could end up on top of the tank you tried to ram, in which case your orks are either going to have to emergency disembark [can't do anything] or die.

What it comes down to is that while this is FUN, and COOL, and FLUFFY, it's also RISKY, which I agree is all very orky. Use this all you want [I can't see any reason why it's not legal after reading through all the rules], but don't expect it to always work quite as well as you planned.

I remember in the star engines ramming debate (which didn't seem to have any solid resolution) the possibility also emerged that fast vehicles simply cannot ram, which would put the reinforced ram in the same category as trust your battle brothers, special drop pod / terminator deep strike, and other 4th edition codex notes made moot by 5th.

(sorry for double post, my computer was choking editing the first post)

also - isn't this thread in the wrong forum? Nobody seems to be proposing any rules.

it does seem logic that a RAM can ram things. its also kinda logical that if something can tankshock it can do a SUBSET of a tankshock, namely ramming

I've read this a few times and I have to say ork trukks can ram. Reason? it is a special type of tank shock... and why the hell would that logically stop them?

Arguement against seems to be it is in a different section of the rules under tanks... well the damage tables for vehicles are under shooting... does this mean you can get pens and glances... but there is no table so you can't kill them in assault?

I call it beardy rules lawyering if you try to tell me A trukk can't ram!

*shrug*

I hear you on the rules lawyering thing. That and the fact that my clubmates openly mock people who play by GW rules are the two things that keep me from actively playing the game. I'm not one to criticize anyones desire to use the products they purchased any way they like.

I've got a 66% suspicion that the confusing term"normal movement" will be errataed from the section on ramming after a couple of tourneys are played with it. The issue is really only relevant to GW run tournies, practice games for GW run tournies, and games played in GW stores, which are the only instances where any reasonable person would worry about such an esoteric distinction. These instances are also the focus of about 99% of the posts on this site outside of the modelling forum - there's absolutely nothing to talk about as far as rolling dice and pushing bits of plastic around in a non-competitive environment using sensible house rules.

***

re-read the OP - can anyone point out what rule he or she is proposing? I don't see any rules propositions.

its just not worth it
it will proly kill your trukk and leave the other tank pretty mcuh unscathed

Well, the point of ork trukks ramming isn't so much to actually destroy the enemy vehicle, but rather allow it to move 18" and either POTENTIALLY destroy the enemy vehicle and/or POTENTIALLY destroying itself, so that the orks may disembark and assault. Normally, their trukk would only be allowed to move 12" and disembark the passengers, but this proposed ramming idea allows them to potentially bypass that.

That potential bypass is an obvious unintended consequence of the new rule if they wanted vehicles other than tanks to ram the rules would say so. Also if an ork ram were intended to bypass the normal rules those rules would say so. The ram only amends the tank shock rules and not the ramming rules.The lack of a statement specifically allowing a bypass of the normal rules means it has to follow the normal rules, even if it defies your logic.

Also I think if the ram were somehow intended for making ramming attacks against vehicles the +2 to armour would probably be carried over for that as well and not just against death and glory tests. I think the specifics of that aspect also point to the fact that the author did not intend for the ram to be used against vehicles.

Yes its a ram... just not good enough to ram vehicles.