Pariahs

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**Lady_Canoness**

Hey all, I just started collecting necrons. The army I want is one that has tonnes of Warriors, a few Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers, a handful of Immortals, and the customary Lord and scarabs.

I don't want to touch flayed ones with a ten-foot pole.

Then I saw Pariahs. In my eyes, the models are pretty good-looking, the fluff and imagery is awesome, the stat-line is strong, and the weapon load out is wicked. So why the hell don't they ever see the table? Sure they aren't 'necrons' and don't stand back up. Sure they can't be teleported around like every other 'necron' can. But is there no way to make this unit viable?

Are they just doomed to be a point sink?

I want to use them, but at their price can I afford to?

Thanks for any advice.

**Bunker**

5 words:

Lack
Of
The
"Necron"
Rule

**Tacobake**

to put it another way, Immortals and other 'crons make WBB saves, Pariahs do not. Besides Phase-out and possibly other considerations.

There was a tactica on BoLS using Pariahs in Apocolypse. Redeploy them and attack Super-heavies in close combat.

**Nurglitch**

The short answer is that people don't like them. Maybe they're justified.

I think that the objection to their non-Necron status isn't a problem so long as you don't use them in heavy combination with other non-Necron unit choices, so they won't deplete the army's Phase Out number beyond what it already is.

Regarding the objection to their Assault capabilities, namely being their limited number of attacks and comparatively low Initiative, having a Necron Lord join them and use Wargear to compensate helps - the Gaze of Flame, the Solar Pulse, Lightening Field, and Chronometron all benefit units of Pariahs.

Their relative brittle-ness in close combat can also be alleviated somewhat by having them assault in combination with some unit like Scarabs, Warriors, and Flayed Ones (particularly Scarabs and Flayed Ones), but that also applies to Wraiths. Intermixing a unit of Warriors among Pariahs will also protect them somewhat from an assault.

Essentially the value of Pariahs is their synergy with other elements of the Necron army, not what they can do on their own. Expect them to die expensively if left unsupported, and expect them to waste points if they aren't supporting another unit.

**Tacobake**

note he didn't say anything about the lack of WBB.

I overlooked the fact that they are I3 A1. They suck in close combat against infantry, too.

They do have their cool leadership rule. You can take 4 for 144 points if you think it is worth it for that. They are also fearless, which is always good, but WBB is better.

**PistolWraithCaine**

They don't get the 4+ rerollable ward save that the rest of the army gets, and they don't help you with phase out. That's why nobody takes them.

**Nurglitch**

Tacobake: Well, now that you mention it, I should point out that We'll Be Back can be negated by the application of weapons and tactics. The weapons are obvious and widespread, the tactics less so (further topic of discussion?).

Where Pariahs don't have We'll Be Back, they also don't have the subtle weaknesses that We'll Be Back encourages. Likewise with their impact on the Necron Phase Out - sure they don't contribute models, but they don't subtract models from that total when they are eventually killed.

Another good point is the I3 A1 - they won't take care of any units by themselves, but in combination with another units such as Flayed Ones (and a Lord with a Chronometron) they can clean up.

Also, good point about the Fearless - they can't be Pinned like most Necron units, and they'll never get taken in a Sweeping Advance.

**Aduro**

How does a Cronometron help you in an assault? It just makes you run away a shorter distance.

And don't diss the Flayed Ones Cannoness, they're quite nice when used well and I'm rather fond of mine.

**Nurglitch**

Aduro: The Chonometron helps out in assaults by allowing the Necron player to roll an extra die and discard the lowest of the three when rolling for Sweeping Advance and Fall Back of the Necron Lord and any unit he has joined.

**PistolWraithCaine**

Nurglitch, please explain how you can utilize tactics to make your opponent move his units away from the res orb. Why would any good necron player do that?

**Nurglitch**

We'll Be Back can be negated by Sweeping Advances in assaults. You can overwhelm a block of Necron units crowded around a Necron Lord with a Resurrection Orb by hitting them hard with assault troops.

Pariahs do not suffer from Sweeping Advance.

Pinning, particular with Dark Eldar Horrorfexes and Terrorfexes, but also numerous weapons like Sniper Rifles and Pulse Carbines, can pin units of Necrons down while you assault nearby Necron Lords, Tomb Spyders, and similar units.

Pariahs do not suffer from Pinning.

Tank Shock, while risky thanks to the Gauss rule, can be used to spread Necrons around the board. If you're very lucky you can catch a unit of Necrons below 50% strength, and they will not be able to rally (unless they pick up stragglers, but that's why you escort them off the board at a 4" remove). We'll Be Back does you little good if you are falling back away from a Resurrection Orb or Tomb Spyder.

Pariahs can always Death or Glory, and their Warscythe guarantees some sort of damage.

**The Grog**

Guarantees 'Some sort of damage'? Hahahahaha. 2d6+5 is far, far too undependable for anything over AV 12. And even then you're risking a whole lot of points.

In practice, it is very very difficult to deny Rez Orb/WBB. Most necron armies are specifically designed, built, and strategized to make sure everything always gets back up. Primarily because if you can't, Necrons are just overcosted, undergunned Marines.

Also in practice, Pariahs are outshot by Immortals and Destoyers, and are terrible in CC. Their best possible CC target, Terminators, tend to break even after a few rounds. Necrons in general are weak in CC. Pariahs are bad, Flayed Ones are bad, Wraiths are bad (for winning CC). Scarabs are actually pretty dangerous, and Spyders are good but only for countercharge.

Pin LD 10. Right. Gigantic concern there.

Admittedly, the pariah + flayed one combo isn't bad. Similarly pariahs + any form of winning CC unit can be dangerous. Too bad the pariahs are not deliverable. You have to march the pariahs across the board and have one live, or hope your opponent comes to you, is beatable in CC, and isn't fearless.

Many opponents will just blow the pariahs off the table, since they give just about the best points/firepower invested ratio.

**Nurglitch**

Let me get this straight, you don't find rolling 7 or above on 2D6 reliable? Compared to rolling a 6 on 1D6, which is what you're get other-wise if someone tried a tank-shock?

In practice if you're creative enough to just turtle-up around around a Resurrection Orb, then you're meat.

Pinning Leadership 10 should be a concern. Weapons such as the Horrorfex and Terrorfex can seriously reduce that. Weapons such as the Sniper Rifle, Pulse Carbine and such can be brought in large quantities, ensuring several opportunities to fail.

Pariahs don't need to be "deliverable". All they have to do is hang around. They don't need to be in close combat for their special rules to affect its outcome.

If you want to deliver them in close combat though, they combine well with Flayed Ones and Scarabs because those troops can get stuck in early against the troops that would otherwise threaten the Pariahs, such as Havocs and Devastators. As mentioned embedding the Pariah unit amongst a unit of Warriors (and behind the first rank or two of warriors), and you can screen them from shooting somewhat (target priority tests) and put them in position to counter-assault if someone tries to charge them first.

Moreover they have a Gauss Blaster so they have equivalent firepower to Immortals, and it's an assault weapon so that they can advance with impunity. An opponent's best chance against beating Necrons is close combat, so either they close with you and can be counter-assault, or they get to sit at round and get eaten by Gauss blasts.

Adding a Lord with the Solar Pulse is damned handy for preserving Pariahs, forcing attacking units to follow the Night Fight rules (or if the Night Fight rules are in effect, remove them for a turn of accurate firepower with the Gauss Blasters).

The Gaze of Flame, in combination with Pariahs, is handy for removing the charge bonus, while the Lightening Field is fantastic for those massive stacks of wounds caused by stuff like Genestealers and Harlequins (although it essentially reduces the Pariahs to expensive bait).

**E'dain**

I'll take 2d6+5 against a vehicle over a gauss weapon any day! Your average roll is going to be a 12, with a chance to pen. AV14. Sounds good to me.

Something that's been mentioned in other forums but hasn't shown up here yet is the efficacy of Pariahs when coupled with the Deceiver. When dealing with other high ldshp armies, this can be a nasty combo, with the Pariahs dropping ldshp, the Deceiver blocking LOS to some of the Pariahs and forcing ldshp checks, and maybe some scarabs to keep the Pariahs out of any unfavorable assaults that might come your way.

**Nurglitch**

The problem with using the Deceiver to block line of sight to some of the Pariahs is that you only get one unit, and the Deceiver's powers only benefit from the Soulless effect where their ranges overlap. With the short range of the Soulless effect, it'll be a question of putting the Deceiver between the Pariahs and any vehicles, and putting the Pariahs between the Deceiver and non-Fearless troops.

I think they'd synergize better with the Nightbringer, since the Nightbringer would be a definite threat to anything planning to assault nearby Pariahs, while its Lightening Arc complements the Pariah's Gauss Blasters by keeping vehicles off their backs.

Both combinations are freakishly expensive though. I'd rather go for the Necron Lord joining the unit for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

**PistolWraithCaine**

Sweeping advance against LD10? That seems pretty unreliable to me honestly and this can be negated by any good necron player who just has to remove casualties that are in base contact and no more sweeping advance.

**Nurglitch**

Well, consider this: Morale tests for losing a close combat can be modified by -5, giving Necrons a 5 or less on 2D6 to avoid rolling on I2 for a Sweeping Advance. That is, of course, if they manage to beat the Necrons under half-strength, and outnumber them 4:1. More likely they'll just be rolling on an 8 or 9, depending on the number of attackers, the number of wounds, and so on.

Incidentally that's why I like Dreadnoughts so much, aside from their ability to mulch Orks: a Dreadnought supporting an assault will add some serious out-numbering muscle to the combat resolution.

As any Necron player with basic 40k skills would know to just remove all the casualties in base to base contact, any player with basic 40k skills would know to place as many charging models in base to base contact as possible to minimize that risk. Morever a player with basic skills would not rely on a single unit to break a unit of Necrons in a single round. I think it's safe to assume we all know the basics here.

**PistolWraithCaine**

Well, it has nothing to do with the basics, when you charge you have to get into base to base with as many models as you can it's the rules. But unless you're going to get a lot of kills you're relying on a 3/36 chance to run down the necrons. You're only going to get one try because as soon as it's their next turn the necrons will be teleported out of combat, 2/3 of the wounds you just did will be regenerated, and the units in combat are going to be shot to hell. And if you do get lots of kills, you won't get to sweeping advance.

**Wehrkind**

Nurglitch wrote:
Where Pariahs don't have We'll Be Back, they also don't have the subtle weaknesses that We'll Be Back encourages. Likewise with their impact on the Necron Phase Out - sure they don't contribute models, but they don't subtract models from that total when they are eventually killed.

That last bold part right there is what clinches it for me. You don't even have to wait till they get killed to get yourself closer to being phased out, they lower that threshold right up front! Yay!

There is no reason to fear them getting into melee with your vehicle unless you put them there. There is no reason to worry about them getting into melee at all unless you accept it, and if you do you can just direct your attacks at them to try and drop them first. There is no reason to even shoot them if there are any other targets like Immortals floating around.

So, by all means, put as many in your list as possible.

**Dakkaladd**

so far we've established that the non necron rule makes them less than desirable. What I think we need to look at is the other non necron units in the list and compare. Deciever, Nightbringer, and the Monolith. For the points cost of these, you would not be able to field the ammount of pariahs needed to have the same effect.

In general there is a certain acceptable % of non necron units in a necron army. With this being relatively low by all accounts, unless you plan on not taking a monolith there is pretty much no reason whatsoever to be taking pariahs in any number. Since their lack of attacks and initiative has allready been pointed out, I think that taking them in numbers is the only way to be effective. Most people aren't willing to take more than 4 or 5 which gives you a whole 5 power weapon attacks, which many basic infantry units can nearly match, but for too many points.

The arguement can be made for the existance of pariahs, but when compared to equivalent units they fall seriously short and thus they are rarely included in armies and almost never in any ammount to make a reasonable difference.

**Aduro**

The best idea I ever heard for Pariahs was as a "vet serge" upgrade option for a unit of Warriors. The Warriors get a guy with a strong CC attack to pop that pesky Dreadnought that charged them, a couple of stronger shots, and the area effect LD modifier. The Pariah gets protection of being picked out and shot.

The drawbacks are you still get one less "Necron" and the unit would lose the ability to be teleported because of it.

**Storm Lord**

As a necron player I can say the reason I never use them on the table (bar Apoc) is because they cost double the points of a warrior, I'd rather take 10 warriors than 5 Pariahs.

The close combat weakness (1 attack) is annoying, granted they can shoot then assault, but it doesnt seem worth it, Id rather have scarabs or flayed ones, both of which I've found to be more durable and deadly.

In the end though it comes down to personal preference, if you like them take them, but make sure yopu can capitalise on their strengths, and failing that, wait for 5th Ed and run like hell!

**Sgt_Scruffy**

Well, not being a necron player, I don't really have any experience with them. However, it seems to me that you have a unit that "can" be survivable and fill a niche in certain army builds. Let me explain.

A pariah costs alot of points, and they don't benefit from the Necron rules. However, whenever I used to play Necrons, I would ignore non-necron units in an attempt to force phase out unless I felt *compelled* to take care of it (Nightbringer about to charge gun line or something). So while WBB adds to the durability of necrons, not having it tends to get you ignored - especially for a unit that doesn't have the fearsome rep of Monoliths and C'Tan.

This doesn't mean I think they are, to quote Anchorman, "The Balls," but thye seem like a pretty good addition for what if otherwise an extremely boring army to play -- in certain circumstances. I'll list a couple of them below and some caveats. I'm no tactical genius (I get about 6 games in a year) so take all this with a grain of salt.

I'll preface this by saying that if you already have a monolith and/or C'tan, it's probably not worth adding more non-necron units unless you're spamming warriors.

Horde Orks: You've got a unit that can shoot like an immortal and reduce Orkish LD when the charge (inevitably) comes. combine with Lord w/goodies and some scarabs and you've got a decent counter-assault force. Against MeQs, you've got a unit that tears up loyalist terminators and can be a cut through all those INV saves that Chaos gets. One last technique, and I'm breaking my own advice above, is that when using Deceiver as counter-charge, you use a small unit of them hiding behind warriors (for 4+ invulnerable). Deceiver takes the charge/charges assaulters, with pariahs moving up to either assist and/or reduce LD.

Again, I'm not saying they are great additions to any tournament winning force, but a small unit of 5 doesn't exactly break the bank and you get a somewhat useful NEW addition to a necron force.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Horde Orks: You've got a unit that can shoot like an immortal and reduce Orkish LD when the charge (inevitably) comes.

I'd be more worried about getting them to lose combat in the first place. Pariahs won't help there.

Against MeQs, you've got a unit that tears up loyalist terminators and can be a cut through all those INV saves that Chaos gets.

Only if you get the charge (and with a unit of 5 Pariahs, maybe not even then if the Termie unit hasn't already taken casualties). Both loyalist and Chaos Termies win out otherwise. It can work as a deterrent, I guess, but to put things into perspective, the points for 8.33 Pariahs gets you the Deceiver instead, a way better deterrent that pretty much everyone fears, not just overpriced generalists like Termies.

**The Grog**

If the Pariahs were A2, it'd look a lot better for their chances of getting fielded. Maybe WS5 or I4/5 too. Make them into a real elite CC unit.

Or change them from a unit into something like the Inquisitor armies Death Cult Assassins.

The fundamental problem with Pariahs is that if they ever become a threat to the opponent, they can simply be killed rapidly and easily due to their poor resilience and small numbers/high cost.

**Wehrkind**

I rather like the Vet Sgt. upgrade idea for Pariahs. Considering their strongest rule is the Ld7 trick, and that only requires a single pariah, spreading a few around in certain squads would be great insurance against anything getting close, and solves the durability issue by hiding the non-repairing fellow in with real Necrons. In this way you could have quite a spread of leadership killing bubbles over the table, and really scare the hell out of your opponant.

Best idea for a new Codex, right there.

**gorgon**

Aduro wrote:The best idea I ever heard for Pariahs was as a "vet serge" upgrade option for a unit of Warriors. The Warriors get a guy with a strong CC attack to pop that pesky Dreadnought that charged them, a couple of stronger shots, and the area effect LD modifier. The Pariah gets protection of being picked out and shot.

The drawbacks are you still get one less "Necron" and the unit would lose the ability to be teleported because of it.

That was my idea.

Kind of, anyway.

I've since come to the conclusion that they need to be blown up and given a defined role, and what makes the most sense to me is for them to be based around an expanded and altered Soulless rule. In fluff terms, how much sense does it make that the Necrontyr would give those precious Pariahs an axe and send them to the front? Pariahs' value is in their Pariah gene...ergo, make their rules reflect that and downplay the shooty/assaulty angle. That eliminates comparisons with Immortals and leaves the counterassault stuff to Scarabs and Wraiths (the latter of which I think should be the ones carrying phase blades).

So instead of "veteran sergeant," think "embedded terror weapon."

**Storm Lord**

Theres a chance if there is a new Necron Codex they may be more Anti-deamon, being anti warp and so may get rules to reflect that.

I would be more inclined to take them if they had the WBB rule, it would make them a bit more durable, albeit probably more expensive still

**gorgon**

Wehrkind wrote:In this way you could have quite a spread of leadership killing bubbles over the table, and really scare the hell out of your opponant.

That's it exactly. The army's playstyle should reflect the fluff. Necrons are supposed to be the scary army...so make 'em scary on the tabletop.

**PistolWraithCaine**

I agree that the vet sergeant is a cool idea, however, I don't think necrons need to get that better honestly :p. I think two attacks and at least I4 would make them a bit more viable.