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okay, the book says: Any brood of Gaunts with a cost of eight points or less per model may be given the "Without Number" special rule at a cost of +3 points per model.

does that mean that if the model is say, seven points, you can give it that rule and now make the model ten points?

also, that rule seems like it can be either really helpful, or just annyoing esp. if the enemy moves around a lot. i dont play 40K yet, so forgive me if i seem stupid on the tactics.

As to the points question yes, you can. As to the rule thing, its a real pain in the ass for the nids player, because instead of bringing more nids to the table, they simply wait until they die (which depending on the size can take a long time) and then you have to march them all the way across the board again, so unless you are playing a really long game its not worth it and the points can be better spent elsewhere.

Don't give your `Gaunts any upgrades other than the gun of your choice. The points for anything else you might give them are better spent on more `Gaunts.

With 40K 5, I don't know. Scuttling Spinegaunts without number could be very annoying for an opponent.

Gaunts without number will always be a terrible buy because of instinctive behavior. Your gaunts are generally going to have to start falling back towards a synapse creature which limits your ability to have them go grab an objective.

Plus if you synapse is dead those gaunts are probably going to IB right back off the board once they get on the table.

Cent is correct, Yak. They are real annoying.

You don't roll for IB the turn they arrive, they don't have to test to move on since they aren't on.

yakface wrote:
Gaunts without number will always be a terrible buy because of instinctive behavior. Your gaunts are generally going to have to start falling back towards a synapse creature which limits your ability to have them go grab an objective.

Plus if you synapse is dead those gaunts are probably going to IB right back off the board once they get on the table.

They're not game-breaking, but annoying. All you need to do is have a synapse creature left standing on top of an objective, and when the spinegauns die, they come back in off the sides. Next turn, they test for IB, and fail...and fall back 2d6" towards the objective, followed by a d6" fleet....

Centurian99 wrote:They're not game-breaking, but annoying. All you need to do is have a synapse creature left standing on top of an objective, and when the spinegauns die, they come back in off the sides. Next turn, they test for IB, and fail...and fall back 2d6" towards the objective, followed by a d6" fleet....

But you're paying 50 or 60% of the base cost of your spinegaunt or termagaunt. You might as well take a bigger brood so it doesn't get wiped in the first place, or if you really want something cheap to sneak onto an objective just buy a second, smaller brood.

It makes a lot more sense than adding a 50% premium onto your termagaunts so that if they get wiped out, and your're playing an objective mission, and you can get a synapse creature onto the objective which isn't a scoring unit itself, you might roll the fleeing and fleet rolls necessary to get the gaunts onto the unit.

You are paying 50-60% for a gaunt that _cannot be killed_ in the first few turns. Something few gaunts can claim.

In 5th, that makes them pretty nice, really, for objectives near the Tyranid edges - or not so near with scuttlers, but I daresay that may be a bit much.

Again, works well in Apocalypse on occation.
Showing up the last turn is a full brood for claiming that doesn't need IB for one turn.

shrug

Apocalypse is quite different, as VPs are determined entirely by objectives and there's a hell of a lot more units on the field per objective. In those situations without number becomes something closer to sensible. And given the question was asked by a guy who's just starting in the hobby, I don't see how Apocalypse is relevant.

Meanwhile, its a 50 or 60% upgrade, with a benefit that's only useful in certain missions, if everything in that mission goes well. Better to just spend the points on a bigger horde or a second horde.

As an insurance policy, it may be worth it. You don't even need to give them scuttlers, or have the unit be of decent size. 8 without number spinegaunts. Who's sole purpose is to hold an objective within 6" of their table edge.

50% of the time, (if you go second) it all but guarantees that you'll be able to at least contest one objective.

well thanks for all the input! now i knows. ha. im sad that i didnt have time to check this sooner!

couldnt the ability come in handy if are forced to or decide to play a more deffensive roll? i know that's not really the tyranid spirit, but if you decide/have to sit back at one edge wouldn't the rule really gum up the other player?

If you have lots of synapse creatures alive, and you run say units of 10 gaunts and they get slaughtered, and they come back. If you can interpret 'fall back toward the nearest synapse creature" as they move toward your nearest surviving synapse creature, then suddenly you just got more scoring troops back, and troops are very important in 5th edition apparently.

Also, when they come back...where? Can they come on one of the sides, or do they come from your table side only?

So - if you take warriors and maybe zoanthropes, leave the tyrant at home, "fall back to nearest synapese' lets them move to where your synapse creatures are - which should by then be middle of the board or near your opponents deployment zone - maybe just maybe it might work.

First round they do not fall back. The check is made before movement, and they appear during movement. Thus they are under full control and count as scoring even without leaving syanapse "at home"

The NEXT round, assuming it is early enough to still use them, it is rarely bad for them to Fall "Back" towards the enemy lines 2d6 and thus approaching the battle faster than anything on foot should. And then fleet. Or just shoot.

They appear on Tyranid table edges (flank march FTW!), so just choose the edge nearest the synapse you want to rush. I field w/o# guants in broods of 8 when I use them, and to great effect.

rarrr

even tho this add-on can be helpful, it seems that you have the potential to loose a lot of VPs for all the extra gaunts that get mowed down... are the broods just too small to really to amount to anything? what if the broods are larger, would that cause some problems on the VP side and as well as how long it takes them to come back in to play? my understanding is that the whole brood must be killed before they can come back into battle.

Well if the broods get larger you really shouldn't be having them wiped out. 32 guants may die like flies but with that many they have to kill 16 before they aren't scoring. (and 32 in fifth) So pretty much if you run them big enough you shouldn't have to worry about them needing to come back.

i guess that's true. i new to 40k, that's why i'm so dumb.
and im not really all taht interested in tyranids, i was just wonder because my one friend is going to start as well and he's playing tyranids.

i'd really like some tips on how to fight. then. i plan on being orks and it seems that tyranids are even more based one numbers that orks are! is there an good way to fight them with orks, or is it a losing battle? i hate for all my wonderful boyz to has there genes assimilated in to those nasty bugs own gene pool!

i plan on being orks and it seems that tyranids are even more based one numbers that orks are!

Ironically, this is often far from the case. Do a search for "nidzilla."

Do you know for a fact that your friend is going for swarm nids?

yesh, yesh i do. and im worried that even tho ill have numbers. taht some how he'll go and out umber the orks! my boyz aint gonna like that!!

Well, your ork boys are as cheap as his termaguants and a heck of a lot better. Just yell WAAAGH!!! Go ova der an crump 'em!

Centurian99 wrote:

They're not game-breaking, but annoying. All you need to do is have a synapse creature left standing on top of an objective, and when the spinegauns die, they come back in off the sides. Next turn, they test for IB, and fail...and fall back 2d6" towards the objective, followed by a d6" fleet....

In 5th edition it seems pretty clear that Reserves aren't coming on from the sides of the board. They clarified the wording so now reserves and fall backs go towards the board edge the player stands behind. . .i.e. the long table edge.

Second, if neither side wins on the objectives, then all of a sudden VPs come into play and all those times the gaunts were wiped out and came back is helping the opponent to beat you.

And again, all this relies on the fact that you will have a Synapse creature alive and near an objective at the end of the game. This is often not the case, and if all Synapse creatures are wiped out the Gaunts will come on the board and the next turn they will likely fail their IB test and run right back off giving up even more VPs.

I still think without numbers is a junk ability in 5th edition.

yakface wrote:

I still think without numbers is a junk ability in 5th edition.

Yeah I agree, your gaunts get to come in your own board edge and get to do..absolutely nothing. Then they test for being out of synapse and run away.

yakface wrote:
In 5th edition it seems pretty clear that Reserves aren't coming on from the sides of the board. They clarified the wording so now reserves and fall backs go towards the board edge the player stands behind. . .i.e. the long table edge.

Agreed...unless you give them scuttling, so they can outflank. At least that's how I read it according to the pdf. Could be wrong, though.

If them running off the board is really the issue, do not move them.

No roll, problem solved.

Shrug.

I do not mean to say it is great, but it is not quite junk for a 64 point unit.
In 5th where having "troops" on the table is that much more important and gaunts are meant to be fodder, it will be better and make it less likely that VP will be counted. As the players place the objectives, the Tyranid players (with those gaunts) should place one nearby their viable edges.

Even if the rule is silly it can definitely be used effectively. Actually maybe because it is silly - no one seems to plan to counter it.

other than just mowing them down and any synapse creatures near a table edge, is there really a way to counter this rule?

would it be beneficial to hold a synapse creature back so as to help them move forward when they come back, or would that really only work in a battle with large points?

kirsanth wrote:If them running off the board is really the issue, do not move them.

No roll, problem solved.

As I read the instinctive behavior rules, gaunt broods out of synapse have only two options:
1) Test for instinctive behavior if they want to move, thus risking fallback and non-scoring status.
2) Lurk, thus becoming non-scoring.

While one could argue that the rule is somewhat ambiguous, RAW (and, I think, probably intent as well) seems pretty clear to me that susceptible units out of synapse cannot avoid testing unless they lurk.


That nitpick aside, I basically agree with your take on WoN; not great, but maybe viable under some circumstances if someone wants to try it.

they can still shoot while Lurking tho, right?

cyanidemassive wrote:they can still shoot while Lurking tho, right?

Right.

yeah, but read the range on their weapons and it won't seem so cool

ha. that's very true, but if you're backed up to the table edge it may not be so bad.