Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Dire Wombat wrote:

kirsanth wrote:If them running off the board is really the issue, do not move them.

No roll, problem solved.

As I read the instinctive behavior rules, gaunt broods out of synapse have only two options:
1) Test for instinctive behavior if they want to move, thus risking fallback and non-scoring status.
2) Lurk, thus becoming non-scoring.

While one could argue that the rule is somewhat ambiguous, RAW (and, I think, probably intent as well) seems pretty clear to me that susceptible units out of synapse cannot avoid testing unless they lurk.


That nitpick aside, I basically agree with your take on WoN; not great, but maybe viable under some circumstances if someone wants to try it.

Well I sort of assumed that nitpick - and agree, that was my point really. You DO have the choice, and if the issue is actually having them run off the board, as opposed to score. If there is not a single synapse on the table and objectives are not an issue (for the game or for the gaunts), do not roll or lose another set of 64 points.

I also want to reiterate the lack of synapse issue. If there is none left, that is more of a problem than what your gaunts are going to do. If there is any left, then odds are the Fall Back is again a "bonus" move. I have never had all synapse destroyed in a game over 500 points (though I admit to coming close in games up to 1k) and even then it was my fault.

I use the rule in 40k sometimes in larger games. I almost always use it in Apocalypse. With the Endless Swarm it is downright viscious (WoN hormagaunts?!?!?! not to touch the bodies over bullets).

Ah, gotcha. I thought (mistakenly) that you were implying that the gaunts would actually be able to hold an objective by just electing not to move. You're quite right, sorry for the misunderstanding.

so what it comes down to is that it's not that good and really wont help you all that much, save the points for some thing more important...!

Not at all.

It helps me regularly.

Having scoring _troops_ is only going to get more valuable to a "swarm" army that is meant to get its troops killled.
I guess I could keep repeating myself just to post like that last one. . .


Naaa

i guess ill just have to see it played and go from there. im getting mixed feelings here. but we shall see...

Just don't forget that Dakka - for all it is a really incredible place to get good advice -originally looked at Mech Tau and said 'this is a worthless tactic', as a whole.

Man, I wish I'd kept some of those early conversations.

I think the jury's very far out in 5th as to what will be useful and what won't, and I've always felt that many upgrades and units that are universally panned are simply waiting on someone to come up with good tactics for their use. Some units are simple one-trick ponies, some upgrades are absolutely amazing, some are subtle and dangerous - but I suspect that taking any axiom with a huge grain of salt is a Wise Move.

Not to say that it isn't good advice! But... look at your army list and decide for yourself.

(nods) that was rather poetic. and that's what i plan on doing! or atleast advising my fried to do. considering that he is the one doing Tyranids, not me...

jonahgrimm wrote:Just don't forget that Dakka - for all it is a really incredible place to get good advice -originally looked at Mech Tau and said 'this is a worthless tactic', as a whole.

Not really. Actually, it went the opposite way...foot Tau were, in general, disregarded until JTS came along and came up with nikkenryu. I went Mech from the very beginning, and no one told me I was a moron.

If you wanted without number the gaunt would have to be worth taking.

Generally I think this means a Devouergaunt, because of the extrra shot, and above all the extrra range. There isnt a whole lot extra you can add to make 8pts that is worthwhile.

Even when optimised yo8uget very little, your gaunbtsc are now expensive an d in this editiona and the next just offer easy VP's.

You would need to have a synapse creature in your rearzone to secure them, another waste of points as the sualy candidate monster a Zoanthrope with Warp Blast and synapse, needs to advance to some desgree to make use of its power.

Then without number might be 'useful' if the enemy is in your deployment zone, but if nids are defending against assault armies overpriced gaunts are not the answer.

Frankly its a non starter. I cannot see any reason or even excuse to use without number.

To me, the question is if scuttling allows you to use outflank each time you come back, or only the first time.

i think giving gaunts the ability is a waste think about this

if the have 10 scuttle spinegaunts with without numbers there 10 points each making it 100 points if the only reason to have scuttle is to have them come in with outflank
so you have 10 on the field all the time
if killed the other player gets points for killing a scoring unit each time they do it
and when they come back from the dead they have to run for a turn to get in Synapse

why not have 20 spinegaunts at 5 points each making it 100 points so you can rush the enemy
sure you will lose 10 on the way in but if it was the other sqaud you would have to start over at the egde of the board again
so now that you have at least 10 gaunts in the fight instead of being out of doing running drills

the last time i checked tyrainds are all about making your oppent to think they can't bet all your units
and 20 units are better then 10 and they look better
if they dont think they can bet you you have alrighty won

I must admit, I'm a little stunned by the negativity towards without number on dakka. I've found it to be a ridiculously good upgrade in a game where scoring units are needed to win.

Gaunt- spinefists and WoN - 8pts.

You can happily sacrifice these models for whatever purpose and still score at the end of the game.

I run a zilla-lite list in which the amount of points that I have to 'waste' in scoring units is minimal. I'm always guaranteed to have some troops at the end of the game, regardless of enemy action. This means that my opponent has to at least contest objectives, forcing them to close with my MCs. Ideal.

coredump wrote:To me, the question is if scuttling allows you to use outflank each time you come back, or only the first time.

Only the first time. If you read the rules carefully it's fairly obvious.

--edit-- that wasn't meant to come across as snippy as it probably does. Just an honest answer to an honest question.

Do not Knok WoN. The moment your opponent starts pointing templates or massed fire (even Lasguns kill these things) at your gaunts, you find yourself counting casualties by the dozens, or worse.
Since I started useing WoN, my score in objective games has gone up massively. You can freely send your gaunts into the Meatgrinder, as they will just arrive later. Yes, you can have problems. Smart opponents will go after Synapse, kill all but 1 Gaunt, whom they will deal with latter, or just wipe them out in droves.
WoN is worth it, because It provides you with a bottomless well of Scoreing units. Absolutely Bottomless. As long as Synapse is alive and well, you have no concerns about scoreing. In 5th ed, this is invaluable.
The trick to useing it is to A) keep Synapse alive, and B) have gaunts that can be quickly hurried forewards to fill the vacuum. A is the big part, but there are lots of tactics to doing this, such as hideing one Zoanthrope where no-one will look for it, haveing warriors hang back to provide support fire, or Tyrants with 3 Tyrant Gaurd and Extended Carapace/Warpfield. With 2+ Carnifex's on the feild, few opponents Will be able to pay enough attention to the Tyrant to kill it off Fast. For B, have one or two units of Gaunts sitting on the closest objective to your board Edge, and run them up to replace any Gaunt broods that are wiped out. The New brood of gaunts then hurries forewards to replace those that just got sent to the front. As opposed to haveing a unit of 30 gaunts which just takes a ton of shooting, and is out of the game.
Also, many opponents will ignore units of 10 Spinegaunts, but not 30.