Cost of 2 fists in 5th?

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**Apostolos**

Well my apologies if this has been touched upon already, but I was wondering if I wanted to do 2 fists on a model would I have to double the price of the fist to get the +1 attack?

**MachineSlave**

Maybe I have missed something but can't you model two fists and just buy a fist and close combat weapon since it woul dhave the same effect?

**Toreador**

Not in the rumoured 5th edition rules. It takes 2 fists to get the extra attack, just like lightning claws.

**ShumaGorath**

My guess is they will have a slight additional points cost to adding a second fist. I wouldn't guess it would be any more than half the cost of the first.

**Nurglitch**

Look to Lightening Claws for the difference in cost between pairs and singletons.

**Vandez**

I don't see how you can make any assumptions about cost without it being listed in a codex. Buying two at full cost is the only legal way in a lot of codexes, but is just not worth it. I can't imagine there being a universal rule in the 5th Ed. book covering the points cost of two fists for every army.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Vandez talks sense. Until the first post-5th dex comes out (Marines), there's no telling how this will be handled.

While we're speculating, though, I would be extremely surprised if the points difference was LC-esque, because that would defeat the whole purpose of the change, which was to neuter the squad-borne fist.

**Ozymandias**

Just FYI, in the DA dex you can't buy 2 power fists so expect not to in the new 5th ed SM dex.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

**tegeus-Cromis**

I'm not too sure about that, Ozy. We assume that the last few codices were designed "with 5th ed in mind," but that doesn't mean they anticipated everything 5th ed has become since then. It could well be that GW never considered that there may be a time when anyone would want to buy two PFs, and were just removing what was a redundant option. It's entirely possible (though perhaps not probable) that DAs may get the shaft yet again.

**Savnock**

Well, Orks were designed with 5th in mind, and there's no such reduced-cost for two option in there. While that might be an oversight, I'd say it bodes ill for those looking to field 2x fists with SM and later codices.

Even though it looks really cool.

On a side note, I just got a bunch of old Eldar plastic weapons sprues. I'm thinking those will be "Witchblades" on my Wild Rider-style un-Warlocks.

EDIT: Damn, beat to the (powerfist) punch!

**Shonuff**

I beliece T-C is correct.

if you've played 40k or WHFB for any ammount of time, you know very well GW is famous for Errata and FAQ and WD updates.
Just because they kicked out a DA or an Ork codex early. doesn't mean the designers didn't add in the 2nd PF weapon in the rules or the upcoming SM codex, which to game balance would see a Ork FAQ and a DA FAQ.

Since the SM codex would be more recent than the now new DA codex, it's rules inside would supercede anything in the DA codex. (Another famous rule of GW)

I'd expect it may show up..but with anything in the 5th edition rumor cloud, i'm waiting until the book is in hand before I plan/expect anything.

To the OP> Price in points for twin PFs, (if allowed) should be comparable to the LCs..

**Savnock**

Shonuff wrote:
if you've played 40k or WHFB for any ammount of time, you know very well GW is famous for Errata and FAQ and WD updates.
Just because they kicked out a DA or an Ork codex early. doesn't mean the designers didn't add in the 2nd PF weapon in the rules or the upcoming SM codex, which to game balance would see a Ork FAQ and a DA FAQ.

Um...

"Earth to The Rock You've Been Hiding Under, come in Rock You've Been Hiding Under. We seem to have a garbled transmission that has no relevance to GW's actual actions over the last 3 years. Come back, Rock You've Been Hiding Under?"

**tegeus-Cromis**

Shonuff, you agree with me, but I don't agree with you.

An update to give DAs etc. options to take two PFs doesn't look likely to me--when was the last time you saw GW actually add options to a dex after its publication? Probably when they printed the DE vehicle upgrades years back, I'll bet. All I'm saying is it's possible that the new SM dex will give a cheaper 2 x PF option, but we have no basis for assuming either way.

As for the jump from PF to dual PF being similar to the jump from single LC to dual LC, I doubt it. Like I said, if it was that cheap, what would be the point of the PF change in the first place?

**Cypher037**

My guess is that characters will have the option, but not squad leaders. PF characters are just dandy already, it's hidden fists that need to be taken down a small notch. This is an insightful rule by GW. It makes PFs much less of a no brainer on squad leaders, without making them useless.

-Leo037

**MinMax**

Probably a discount of 5-ish points...

25 for one, 45 for two...

**Vandez**

Of course, the one interesting upshoot here is that we're going to see more interesting choices of second weapon on squad leaders: I, for example, will seriously be considering giving my Nobz with klaws a kombi-skorcha, or even a twin shoota, just for the hell of it. Nothing wrong with a little variety.

*Edit*

You can't do it in Boyz mobs. How upsetting. Still, might see a few up-gunned Nobz mobs.

**Foda_Bett**

Well considering GW (Jervis/Kelly one of them) said that there would be new FAQs for EVERYONE to bring them up to speed for 5th edition, I think the odds are high we'll see them.

I guess I should stop building marines then.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Foda_Bett, think back to the FAQs released to bring the old codices up to speed with 4th ed. Were there any new options introduced there?

**Morskul**

IMHO the change in 5th Ed to remove the extra attack from PF+CCW combo is an attempt at a blanket nerf to all hidden PFs, giving you the option to take a second (albeit at an increased points cost) would be quite hypocritical. I predict that the 2 PF combo will be limited to Marneus only.

**Aduro**

Anyone going to stop taking Powerfists on their Vet Serge because of this? I know I won't. I've been taking a Powerfist on every serge in every squad (yes, even devastators) since 2nd and I don't plan on breaking my tradition any time soon!

**Vandez**

It's not going to stop me. It's a bit of a bugger, but seeing as Nobz get 3 attacks basic anyway it shouldn't slow them down too much!

**tegeus-Cromis**

Weren't lots of people running Shootas instead of Sluggas? Those Nobs weren't getting the +1 A anyway.

**Vandez**

I'd assumed that most people were allowing Shoota Boyz nobs to use a slugga and powerklaw, but as I haven't put together a shoota mob yet I haven't run into this hurdle.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Ah. You are probably right.

**Vandez**

Yeah, I think the argument ran "If I exchange the Nob's choppa for a power klaw FIRST, I can then exchange the boyz' sluggas/choppas for shoots", or some such. As it happens, when 5th rolls around it'd probably be quite good to be able to give the Nob a shoota - at least he contributes to the unit's firepower.

**sebster**

Aduro wrote:Anyone going to stop taking Powerfists on their Vet Serge because of this? I know I won't. I've been taking a Powerfist on every serge in every squad (yes, even devastators) since 2nd and I don't plan on breaking my tradition any time soon!

They'll likely be just as dominant, but less devestating in actual play. With the counter charge rule coming into play there'll be more troops in the combat and the ultimate result will be more wounds coming from the unit and less from the PF leader. Which is a step in the right direction, me thinks.

**tegeus-Cromis**

Eh, how often did Tac Marines not get to swing in 4th anyway? It's never happened in my games except where BTs are involved.

**Vaktathi**

Morskul wrote:IMHO the change in 5th Ed to remove the extra attack from PF+CCW combo is an attempt at a blanket nerf to all hidden PFs, giving you the option to take a second (albeit at an increased points cost) would be quite hypocritical. I predict that the 2 PF combo will be limited to Marneus only.

Don't forget that wounds must be allocated before saves are made, and thus removing hidden fists will be much easier as well. while I doubt it, GW may just decide that this and a slight cost increase solves the problem. They have also increased the cost of powerfists in many armies and reduced availability. I know I wouldn't want to deal with the extra cost imposed in addition to shorter lifespan. That said, I think GW is using a hammer where a scalpel would have been better.