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I used this list a few days ago against a Tyranid army. I didn't know if I would be facing a Nidzilla or horde army, so made a list that would hopefully handle both. Turned out it was mostly a Horde army: it had a Flyrant, a Tyrant with 2 Guard, 3 Zoans, 2 Lictors, 1 Shooty Carnifex, 1 Ravener, the Red Terror (we allow it in our gaming circle), 6 Leaping warriors, 2 large units of Gaunts, 2 large units of Hormagaunts, a Ripper Swarm, and 12 Genestealers (I believe that was all). Played a Recon mission, at the end of the game, he only had his Tyrant left, which was locked in hand to hand combat with my remaining demons and had been knocked down to 2 wounds. I still had a full 10 man squad of Noise Marines, the full squad of TSs, my 2 Sorcerors, 8 out of 9 Oblits, and a champion and squad member from one NM squad (plus the demons in hth with the Tyrant). It faired very well against the horde list, so was wondering how this list would probably hold up against other types of armies.

HQ
1 Chaos Sorceror
Mark of Slaanesh
Lash of Submission
125pts

1 Chaos Sorceror
Mark of Slaanesh
Lash of Submission
125pts

TROOPS
10 Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Icon
Champion
Power Fist
295pts

10 Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Icon
Champion
Power Fist
295pts

9 Noise Marines
Sonic Blasters
Icon
Champion
Power Fist
270pts

5 Thousand Sons
Icon
1 Sorceror
Doom Bolt
185pts

20 Demons
260pts

10 Demons
130pts

10 Demons
130pts

HEAVY SUPPORT
3 Obliterators
225pts

3 Obliterators
225pts

3 Obliterators
225pts

looks interesting. a lot of 24" shooting backed up by a full compliment of obliterators and lash for control/obliterator messiness.

Why not split the group of twenty demons into two groups of ten? They don't count against force org, and having 2 tens gives you an extra deppstrike reserve roll. Right now you get twenty or none depending on that roll.

the thousand sones...seem lonely and sort of small. I would find a way either to beef them up to 9 or replace them with something else, though right now I'm not sure what.

Overall, looks pretty good. It's main weakness would seem to pointy-eared eldar points denial/triple falcon madness.

gamefiend wrote:looks interesting. a lot of 24" shooting backed up by a full compliment of obliterators and lash for control/obliterator messiness.

Why not split the group of twenty demons into two groups of ten? They don't count against force org, and having 2 tens gives you an extra deppstrike reserve roll. Right now you get twenty or none depending on that roll.

For the game against the Tyranids, I decided to have one big unit of demons to take on any big units of gaunts/hormogaunts, then move on and tie up other things . The other two smaller units would be there to help out in any combats as needed and then move on to tie other things up. Against other armies, I could probably break it down into 4 units of 10.

the thousand sones...seem lonely and sort of small. I would find a way either to beef them up to 9 or replace them with something else, though right now I'm not sure what.

I put them in to run "interference." With their 4+ invulnerable and their AP3 weapons, plus the sorceror's force weapon, I figured they could shoot/tie up even MCs until I got my troops into a position to deal with them. In this particular game, they didn't take any losses and got into the Tyranids deployment zone, winning the game.

Overall, looks pretty good. It's main weakness would seem to pointy-eared eldar points denial/triple falcon madness.

Thanks. I haven't played against the Eldar. Even with 9 Oblits lascannons, the Falcons would be troublesome?

The PFs on the Noise Marine champs rob them of their advantage of high Init. And the Tson squad is small and weak. Did it help out a lot in the game or was it held back due to it's slow and purposeful? I'll suggest axeing the Tsons and using the points to make the 9 man Noise marine squad 10 and use the points after that to upgrade the sorcerers to Demon Princes with wings. If you did that it would give you 100 points. Just enough for a great demon, if you felt that would work out well.

Typeline, I think you're getting hung up on that I 5. Is it good? Sure. Is it so good you need to preserve it at all costs? Not really. People still put PFs on Chaplains and Scorpion Exarchs. Hell, people (sometimes) use Karandras, who "wastes" a ridiculous I 7. Consider what the PF offers vs. the PW. Don't just see the I 5 and immediately go for the PW.

Why the Demons of chos ? ? ?

Why the what?

lol nothing its a joke. When i look at Chaos stuff

The Demons why ? ? ? there a Marine with no Gun and 1 more A. And DS in and sit still ? ? Except when a Icon is there...

As for the Power fist maybe he would want AT but he has Oblits so i have to say way as well .

It's really hard to understand what you're saying. Could you proofread before you post? I'm not trying to be mean. It really is a challenge.

Given that you think Fenrisian Wolves are a bargain, I'd have expected you to like the Lesser Daemons. For 3 points more, you lose the Cavalry rule, but gain Fearlessness, a 5+ inv. save and the ability to assault after DSing. I'm not saying Lesser Daemons are great, but thinking they're absolutely terrible (they aren't--they're just mediocre) seems inconsistent with your stated opinions.

The PF isn't for AT. It's for insurance against MCs, ICs and Dreads and extra lethality against normal troops.

Typeline wrote:The PFs on the Noise Marine champs rob them of their advantage of high Init.

For this particular game against the Tyranids, I was looking more at the effects of their sonic blasters. That's almost 60 shots "on the move" and almost 90 shots sitting still. Back that up with the Oblits concentrating on the MCs and it's a pretty good gunline against Nids. I preferred to have the PF in the units just in case a MC got into assault with them. Since this army worked so well against the Nids, I was wondering how people thought it would fair against other armies.

And the Tson squad is small and weak. Did it help out a lot in the game or was it held back due to it's slow and purposeful?

They actually won the game for me, as they walked across the battlefield, took no casualties, and were the only scoring unit to make it in the Nids deployment zone (Alpha level Recon mission).

I'll suggest axeing the Tsons and using the points to make the 9 man Noise marine squad 10 and use the points after that to upgrade the sorcerers to Demon Princes with wings. If you did that it would give you 100 points. Just enough for a great demon, if you felt that would work out well.

I'm not sold on the DPs yet. They can be targeted by shooting whereas the sorcerors can hide near units and use the Lash to move the enemy around, and then help out in any close combats where needed. This army cleared the battlefield of all Tyranids except for a Hive Tyrant, who was down to 2 wounds and locked in a close combat against demons.

ghostmaker wrote:lol nothing its a joke. When i look at Chaos stuff

The Demons why ? ? ? there a Marine with no Gun and 1 more A. And DS in and sit still ? ? Except when a Icon is there...

The demons actually did a lot in this game. I summoned in the big unit of 20 on turn 2, and placed them within assault range of a big unit of hormagaunts that had moved across the battlefield. When they charged, they had almost 60 attacks against the unit of 25 (I believe it was 25) hormagaunts. They won the combat, and since the gaunts had moved out of synapse range (with a little help from the Lash), caught them in a sweeping advance and massacred them. They then moved on to tie up a unit of Genestealers, a Zoanthrope, and a Ravener for several turns which allowed me to concentrate my fire on other targets. The other two units came in the next turn and helped out in some combats. One unit came in and assaulted 2 Lictors and a Zoanthrope that were all in assault range and tied them up for several turns. The other unit came and helped out in a big close combat involving a Ripper Swarm, a unit of Tyranid Warriors, a Hormaquant sqaud, the 2 Sorcerors, a Noise Marine Squad, and an Obliterator Squad. Once those Nids were wiped out, they moved up the battlefield and then assaulted the Hive Tyrant and tied it up until the end of the game.

As for the Power fist maybe he would want AT but he has Oblits so i have to say way as well .

The PF in this game was mainly for taking out MCs. Against lower toughness armies I might swap it out with a power weapon, but against toughness 4 and above, I'd rather like to wound on a 2+ as opposed to a 4+ or higher.

K cool i get it

and yea i do need to work on it (spelling)

And i was kidding about getting mad lol

Ok, so I guess what I'm really wanting opinions on is how would this army, as is, fair against other types of armies. What would be the strengths and weakenesses of this army versus say "normal" and "competitive" Necrons, Orks, Eldar, etc, that are generally seen played.

i think its great..
i had problem fighting with my friends tyranid army
your list gave me a good idea..
but the difference is that he has a MC list..
i think i have to take chosens and with 4 PF inside it to take his MCs on..
9 obliterators are just crazy.. shoots down anything wouldn't it? i was surprised about his tyrant not getting killed by 9 lascannon shots per turn

i also had problem with using my DP probably..
he is just too much of a target for anyone..
everyone shoots at him, charges at him whenever they can
but then i found out that, DP should be kept hiding behind terrain for the first turn
and go out on the second turn, lashing and charge
thats my way of playin with my DP
have a look.. advices is welcomed

stone1208 wrote:i think its great..
i had problem fighting with my friends tyranid army
your list gave me a good idea..
but the difference is that he has a MC list..
i think i have to take chosens and with 4 PF inside it to take his MCs on..

The thing is, if he's taking a lot of MCs, then that means less squads of gaunts and such to worry about. If your taking the Noise Marines, concentrate all their fire on whatever "horde" units he has first and any infiltrators like stealers and Lictors, use the Lash to either stay out of combat with the horde units and/or use it to move the MCs around to keep them at bay, and concentrate all your Obliterator fire at the fastest moving MC first. You don't want a Flyrant hitting your lines in the 1st or 2nd turn! By the time any MCs do hit your lines, they should be on their last couple of wounds, and a champion with a PF should be able to finish them off in a single round of combat (if the dice gods are on your side that day).

9 obliterators are just crazy.. shoots down anything wouldn't it? i was surprised about his tyrant not getting killed by 9 lascannon shots per turn

Just depends on LOS and such. In my game the Flyrant and Hive Tyrant were on one side of the table and his Carnifex was on the other. So, I had to split fire: whatever Oblits could see the Flyrant shot at it and the other Oblits squad shot at the Carnifex. His Flyrant was dead by the 2nd turn, which allowed me to concentrate the Oblits fire elsewhere and to help in combat.

i also had problem with using my DP probably..
he is just too much of a target for anyone..

That's why I took Sorcerors with Lash for my army. They didn't have to hide behind anything as they were protected by the units around them and thus could change positions easily if needed in order to target units with the Lash.

Sorc need wings. I'd also say warptime.
Drop the lesser demons.
Bring more TS.

Equip any and all unit champions with power weapons and meltabombs.

As far as tactics go...against nids you should lash the CLOSEST enemy units towards your army--namely leaping gaunts and scuttling stealers, turns 1 and 2.

Then unleash twin-linked plasma death from the oblits, and use your core troops to finish everything else off. If there are survivors, they shouldn't last long.

After that, retreat and lash dakkafexes away while your oblits kill tyrants then gunfexes...and then smash the dakkafexes.

I can smoke my nidzilla list in about 3 turns now with my chaos army. DP + Oblits = win.

Stelek wrote:Sorc need wings. I'd also say warptime.
Drop the lesser demons.
Bring more TS.

Thanks for your input. For this particular game against the Nids, I didn't know what level mission it was going to be, so I wanted everything to be on the table in case of an escalation mission. That's why I didn't equip the Sorcerors with wings. But escalation is dropped in 5th edition, right? So I'll probably start using wings on them. Plus giving them a familiar and Warptime.

I dunno about the demons just yet. They rocked in this game, being able to come in pretty much exactly where I needed them and tying up lots of units. I don't like taking vehicles, so they gave my army a little "mobility" in this game.

TS did very well in this game, actually winning it for me. I'd probably take more of them against MEQs instead of demons.

As far as tactics go...against nids you should lash the CLOSEST enemy units towards your army--namely leaping gaunts and scuttling stealers, turns 1 and 2.

Then unleash twin-linked plasma death from the oblits, and use your core troops to finish everything else off. If there are survivors, they shouldn't last long.

After that, retreat and lash dakkafexes away while your oblits kill tyrants then gunfexes...and then smash the dakkafexes.

I can smoke my nidzilla list in about 3 turns now with my chaos army. DP + Oblits = win.

I sorta did that in this game, and all that was left was his Hive Tyrant that was down to 2 wounds and locked in a never ending combat with the demons by the end of the 6th turn.

A close combat tyrant goes through lesser demons pretty easy. I'm guessing you got a charge in after it was already engaged, if it was a shooty one.

Lesser demons are worse in 5th. Lose by alot, and you'll lose alot.

Wings only make you move like jump-infantry not change your unit type so in escalation they would still be on board. Not that it will matter anymore.

Demons just dont have anything going for them, fearless is ok but as Stelek said, they will suffer from it in the future. They are also just too expensive for a few S4 CC attacks.

Stelek wrote:A close combat tyrant goes through lesser demons pretty easy. I'm guessing you got a charge in after it was already engaged, if it was a shooty one.

Lesser demons are worse in 5th. Lose by alot, and you'll lose alot.

He had a couple of Tyrant Guards with him, and I had used Lash to push it and his guards back a couple of times so that I could focus on the rest of his army. I believe it was a shooty tyrant. Anyways, I killed the Tyrant Guard with massed Obliterator fire, and then assaulted the Tyrant with a unit of 10 demons. This was the first time the Tyrant had gotten into combat the whole game. So the demons did a couple of wounds (he had the Warp Field power) and the Tyrant killed a few, but the game ended with them still locked in combat.

Kallbrand wrote:Wings only make you move like jump-infantry not change your unit type so in escalation they would still be on board. Not that it will matter anymore.

I did not know that. Looking in the back of the 4th edition rulebook it had models listed with demonic flight classified as Jump Infantry, and escalation says that Jump Infantry can't be deployed at the start of the game. So, this being the first time I played with an army from the new Codex, I figured Wings was the equivalent of Demonic Flight, and so figured models would count as jump infantry, again going by the last few pages of the 4th edition rulebook. But, that doesn't appear to be a problem anymore under 5th edition rules, so yay!