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I was recently of the opinion, and many of the more experienced dakkites are of the opinion, that the basic lesser demons aren't worth taking. But I keep seeing them pop up in lists. I'm beginning to see a good use for them.

Dropping a large squad of lesser demons around an icon bearing squad can pump that squads usefulness in CC and can really surprise the opponent. It gives versatility to HtH weak chaos units, although there are relatively few. Shooty squads can drop the lesser demons in front of them as they march forward using them as a screen and if they don't drop until later can use them as support in HtH. Not to mention they can back up smaller units of Oblits against units that would be hunting them. The lesser demons can even drop without an icon at some risk to assault sniper squads, like Eldar pathfinders. Plus they are fearless so dropping small squads out to support in CC or tie up weak HtH sniper squads can be good.

But that doesn't mean they aren't without their bad side. They have no shooting potential. They can scatter themselves to death without icons. The area where I keep insisting they be applied, HtH, is kind of weak. With WS4 S4 hits they aren't going to be taking care of much and at I5 they aren't getting the jump on anyone. Their 5+ invl save is not really a god send either. They are going down to most hits and aren't going to stay around long as single units.

It seems that their application is all completely tactical. I've heard good stories. It seems that all the positive is tactically based while all the negative relies more on stats and math. So which is it? Are they bad or good?

If you know what opp you are facing they can be used to counter some things but they are 13 points, so you actually get some better things for a large units worth.

Just to be nit picky, some of your points are moot as lesser daemons must be summoned next to an icon.

I’ve had some good results the last few months using a single unit. I think you could still have success with a summoning focused AKA daemonbomb army, but it’s tricky. There was some good discussion about it in my Adepticon list thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/208724.page

As you’ve noted, the tactical flexibility of summoning at several possible points on the table is their biggest virtue. Their combat stats by themselves are nothing to write home about, but when I am able to add another 8 SM-type bodies into a combat along with a Rhino squad, I’ve functionally transported 14-18 assault models in a single transport. The daemons can also do fun things like assault and tie up a unit which popped the Rhino in shooting; protecting the Entangled squad and allowing them to gain the benefits of charging into combat the following round. Or I can summon a bunch of daemons next to my Sorcerer with Flight, again basically getting a Raptor squad (albeit without special weapons and with inferior saves) across the table to support him for 7pts less per model, and without getting shot at on the way over.

In my three 1850pt games at the Adepticon Championships my 8 lessers did the following:

Game 1: Helped my raptors and sorcerer finish off a squad of plague marines, then tied up another one for the final two turns of the game.

Game 2: Killed a haemonculous, broke and ran off the table a squad of DE warriors, weathered the charge of and then killed a squad of warp beasts, and then consolidated to tie up a squad of wyches and prevent them from charging something else valuable.

Game 3: Tied up and eventually broke and ran down a heavy destroyer and squad of three light destroyers. Assaulted and tied up a second squad of destroyers to prevent them from contesting an objective.

In the 1500pt tourney I played 5/17, they did the following:

Game 1: Supported a small Rhino squad and my Sorcerer in taking out the HS firebase of a mostly-dropping IG army, then cleaned up a couple of dropping squads.

Game 2: Finished off half a tactical squad, held the enemy DZ at the end of the game.

Game 3: In Cleanse, my Ravenwing opponent swung hard around one flank with almost all his speeders, plus a bike squad, plus a DSing termie squad. I had one Rhino on that flank. When he popped the Rhino my squad hid behind it, but I was able to keep my Icon close enough that the Lessers were able to assault the bikes when they appeared. With average dice they would have made the bikes non-scoring and distracted the terminators for at least one turn, keeping them from having any significant effect on the game as they were out of position. The “distract the terminators” part of the plan worked, but 54 attacks over three rounds of HTH only killed a single biker. Which is just bad dice.

I started to write a report but haven’t finished yet. Still, you can check out some pics here:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Danger_Planet_May_17_Tourney_Report

with lesser demons i run a 9 man unit in my 1750/1850 list. I just use my lord on a bike drive up to the other guys lines hopefully i don't die and then pop out the unit i. then charge tyeing up the unit and my lord charges something else. . Now there is times this works great and time they get wasted.

Interesting. Good to hear that they do have a use still. Apparently their ability to come in right on the icons is really their strength.

I'm not very familiar with the new chaos codex, are deamons still able to assault on the turn they show up or did they remove that ability?

They still can assault the turn they DS (unlike the ones in new Daemon dex). They'd be truly useless otherwise, instead of merely mediocre.

Mediocre I think is still unjust. Their tactical flexibility (especially with the removal of Escalation in 5th, so they don’t have to worry about all the fast summoning units starting off table) is really a pretty unique asset, and they do something nothing else in the army can. Summoned lessers to some extent allow a CSM army to act as if it’s bigger than it really is, by adding extra numbers to the point where you most need them, and saving points on transport/jump pack costs.