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Firstly, here's the list:

HQ

Command Platoon
- Command Squad @ [90] Pts
- Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, ccw & laspistol
- 4 Guardsmen, Master Vox-Caster
- Chimera @ [136] Pts
-- Extra Armour; Improved Comms; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Track Guards
- Anti-Tank Squad @ [110] Pts
-- 3 Lascannons

Troops

Alpha Platoon
- Command Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Junior Officer w/ ccw & Plasma Pistol
-- 4 Guardsmen w/ Vox Caster; 3 Plasmaguns, drop troops
- Infantry Squad @ [90] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; Vox Caster; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw & Laspistol
- Infantry Squad @ [90] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; Vox Caster; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw & Laspistol
- Infantry Squad @ [90] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; Vox Caster; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw & Laspistol

Beta Platoon
- Command Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Junior Officer w/ ccw & Plasma Pistol
-- 4 Guardsmen w/ Vox Caster; 3 Plasmaguns, drop troops
- Infantry Squad @ [90] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; Vox Caster; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw & Laspistol
- Infantry Squad @ [90] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; Vox Caster; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw & Laspistol
- Infantry Squad @ [90] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; Vox Caster; Plasmagun; Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw & Laspistol

Elite

Vets wtih Meltas @ 80 Pts
- Drop Troops; Vox Caster; 3 Meltaguns
- Veteran Sergeant w/ ccw & laspistol

Vets wtih Plasmas @ 80 Pts
- Drop Troops; Vox Caster; 3 Plasmaguns
- Veteran Sergeant w/ ccw & laspistol

Fast Attack

2 Hellhounds @ 146 Pts each
- Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Track Guards; Hull Heavy Bolter


Heavy Support

Leman Russ Demolisher @ 203 Pts
- Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Track Guards; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon

Leman Russ Battle Tank @ 174 Pts
- Extra Armour; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Track Guards; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Basilisk @ 125 Pts
- Indirect Fire Capability

Total Roster Cost: 2000


So, I figured I better redo my list from the other day in light of my BFG campaign game loss which means in our 40K game my death guard enemy will get an extra 200 pts, so it will be my 2000 vs his 2200. He only keeps 1 list and just tweaks it a bit, and I played against it a few times.. he's got 2 predator annihilators, 1 defiler, 1 demon price with warp time, and the rest is all plague marines.

So, I'm taking my 2 units of DK grenadiers and just adding them in as regular guardsmen. There's tons of plasmas. I wanted to keep the anti tank squad with 3 lascannons, and I went with missile launchers for the platoons because of cost, so I could add a HW to each squad

I took the vox network so I can spread my guys out a little more and have them in cover. As I took the vox network, I figured the standard would be a waste since you can't see a standard through a vox. I could lose the vox network but I was hoping to use the platoon command squads as drop troops like my vets, so they can drop in behind stuff and mess it all up. So if I did that the platoons would need their voxes. I'm really out of models with this list, I'm even gonna need to do some proxies to pull it off since I doubt I can buy anything new between now and next weekend....

Anyway, wadayas think? Will it do good against death guard? is it too cheesy with all that plasma? I need to get a win with this game but I don't want a 1 sided unfun game...

Voxes... *sigh*

If you're still doing it after all this time, after all I and others have said, then there's nothing more I can do for you my son.

*walks away*

BYE

I just don't see why they're that bad? it's only 5 pts.. yeah if I remove em I can get more guys on the board.. but it just seems like the bigger I make the army, the tougher it is for me to keep em inside the command radius.. between terrain and all that stuff... 12" isn't that big of an area. And then what happens when I need to capture objectives in order to win? I can't just sit there in my deployment zone while the other guy gets em all

That's why as your army expands, so does the amount of Command units. You're not trying to keep everyone within 12" of the CHQ are you? Any HQ will do. Keeping one model in every unit within 12" of an HQ isn't that hard. You've got three in the above list. That's 3 12" bubbles.

And this question:

"I just don't see why they're that bad?"

... was answered in your very next sentence:

"It's only 5pts"

Exactly. It costs points. The Command Raidus is free.

BYE

OK, I'm dumb

yeah all this time I've been squeezing 2 platoons in a 12" bubble for the CHQ That was always my problem with all these crazy lists, I really hated having to squeeze everything in like that.

not so bad with 2-squad platoons but now that I'm trying to make em bigger it was becoming a pain.

well I'll ditch the voxes and do some tweaking. I'd like to try and get 2 antitank squads going...

It's not even 12", the codex states the unit has to be within 12" of the CHQ, making it 12" all around, making it a 24" bubble.

ok.. Based on the above list and the removal of vox casters and some other tweaks, I came up with something new. This uses every model I have besides my inquisitor and his retinue and his chimera.

I added stormtroopers for a couple reasons. 1) that's what the models are. 2) I could have done more tweaks and maybe had enough for a 2nd chimera if I used those models as a 3rd unit in each platoon, but I figured I'd get more mileage out of them as stormtrooers.. or am I wrong again? I gave them infiltrate as we usually have a good amt of terrain and i should be able to get them a nice building to hide in. I could have given them deep strike but I think they'd be better if they were dug in.

By removing vox casters and some vehicle upgrades I prolly won't need, I freed up enough points for a 2nd anti tank squad. I'm expecting a defiler and 2 predator annihilators and a couple of rhinos. I went with missiles in the platoons because of costs. I also went with 4 plasmas in those command squads instead of the flamers i used to have. I'm going against plague marines so i'm gonna need lots of good ap stuff. I'm expecting half my plasmagunners to fry themselves, but that's what's fun about em.

Anyway here's the list:

Unlimited Pts - Imperial Guard Roster - Stormguard 2000 pts

Doctrines: Close Order Drill, Iron Discipline, Drop Troops, Stormtroopers

HQ

Command HQ @ [81] Pts
- Junior Officer
-- Iron Discipline; Honorifica Imperialis; ccw/pistol
- 1 Standard Bearer
- 3 Guardsmen
- Chimera @ [102] Pts
-- Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Multilaser; Hull Heavy Bolter

2 Anti-Tank Squads @ [110] Pts each
- 3 Lascannons

Elite (26#, 343 Pts)
10 Storm Troopers @ 130 Pts
- 2 Plasmaguns, Infiltrate
- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol

10 Storm Troopers @ 130 Pts
- 2 Plasmaguns, Infiltrate
- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol

6 Vets wtih Meltas @ 83 Pts
- Drop Troops; 3 Meltaguns
- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol

Troops

Alpha Platoon @ 255 Pts
- Command Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Drop Troops, 4 Plasmaguns
-- Junior Officer w/ Iron Discipline, ccw/pistol
- Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; 1 Plasmagun; 1 Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol
- Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; 1 Plasmagun; 1 Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol

Bravo Platoon @ 255 Pts
- Command Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Drop Troops, 4 Plasmaguns
-- Junior Officer w/ Iron Discipline, ccw/pistol
- Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; 1 Plasmagun; 1 Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol
- Infantry Squad @ [85] Pts
-- Close Order Drill; Drop Troops; 1 Plasmagun; 1 Missile Launcher
-- Sergeant w/ ccw/pistol

Fast Attack

2 Hellhounds @ 132 Pts each
- Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support

Basilisk @ 125 Pts
- Hull Heavy Bolter; Indirect Fire Capability

Leman Russ Demolisher @ 190 Pts
- Extra Armour; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon

Leman Russ Battle Tank @ 160 Pts
- Extra Armour; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Total Roster Cost: 1995


Wadaya think?

Shouldnt have CCW srgs.

Should have Veterans instead of Storm Troopers personally.

Should have more men personally speaking.

I am still not too worried about guards, more souls for C'tan!!!!

Hmm... well, if i ditch the stormtroopers and get 3 vet squads I can have 3 squads of 10 each with 3 plasmas or meltas. Seems nice, I guess. But I just always ran my vets as 5 man drop troop suicide squads. They drop in, blow up a tank, and then get shot to ribbons by angry marines. Using em like that they almost always make up twice their pts when all is said and done. And it also does wonders for drawing fire away from my platoons

But yeah I guess as infiltrators sitting in cover the vets would be a better choice for that role. I could possibly make it 3 9-man squads with cameloline too... for an even better cover save.

just starting to wonder though, with all this plasma is the army bordering on cheese? or is it already there? I don't wanna have a 1 sided unfun game...

And why would you take full Vet Squads? That's a waste of 40 points in each Vet Squad, or 120 points overall.

That's another squad + change.

There's nothing wrong with LP/CCW Sergeants. It means when they charge you your squad has 11 S3 I4 attacks rather than 10. Also means you have 22 when you charge rather than 20. Every little bit counts, especially when your swarming an assault unit with 3 of your units.

And Necros, there's no such thing as cheese except the types you eat.

BYE

Necros wrote:Hmm... well, if i ditch the stormtroopers and get 3 vet squads I can have 3 squads of 10 each with 3 plasmas or meltas. Seems nice, I guess. But I just always ran my vets as 5 man drop troop suicide squads. They drop in, blow up a tank, and then get shot to ribbons by angry marines. Using em like that they almost always make up twice their pts when all is said and done. And it also does wonders for drawing fire away from my platoons

But yeah I guess as infiltrators sitting in cover the vets would be a better choice for that role. I could possibly make it 3 9-man squads with cameloline too... for an even better cover save.

just starting to wonder though, with all this plasma is the army bordering on cheese? or is it already there? I don't wanna have a 1 sided unfun game...

when you get to 40 plasmas, people will start getting annoyed.

Until then, no.

And there is no cheese.

Just a new way of playing you aren't used to.

Stelek wrote:

Necros wrote:Hmm... well, if i ditch the stormtroopers and get 3 vet squads I can have 3 squads of 10 each with 3 plasmas or meltas. Seems nice, I guess. But I just always ran my vets as 5 man drop troop suicide squads. They drop in, blow up a tank, and then get shot to ribbons by angry marines. Using em like that they almost always make up twice their pts when all is said and done. And it also does wonders for drawing fire away from my platoons

But yeah I guess as infiltrators sitting in cover the vets would be a better choice for that role. I could possibly make it 3 9-man squads with cameloline too... for an even better cover save.

just starting to wonder though, with all this plasma is the army bordering on cheese? or is it already there? I don't wanna have a 1 sided unfun game...

when you get to 40 plasmas, people will start getting annoyed.

Until then, no.

And there is no cheese.

Just a new way of playing you aren't used to.

If he can legally take 40 plasmas, then what is the problem? People who scream cheese are just useless IMO. Not arguing with you, just emphosising ya point

Well, I'm just gonna keep it like I have it for now. I don't have the models to do much else. Gonna pick up another box of men soon so I can add another squad to each platoon eventually. I'd like to have it as all platoons with 3 units of drop troop vets for 2000 pts.. and save the stormtroopers and my other inquisitor stuff for 3000 pt apocalypse games. I've also been thinking about getting some ratling snipers, using the cadian models.

as far as the sergeants, I don't mind the ccw version.. for one it's fluffy and you can also tell them apart easier. I don't think 1 extra flashlight is that big of a deal.. if the bad guys do get close enough I can still get 2 pistol shots if I really wanna.

Yea the CCW seems niceit's up to you just my thoughts. But i much rather have one more shot and or 2 more in rapid. then a Laspistol.

Ratlings ......ewww (my thought)
Dont think there worth another doctrine pt. and for what they do....If you need them for points in mega game go ahead.

But yea if you do just use other models

Just keep it up could be a good list. like where it's heading.

You're right, Ratlings are a waste of time. You need 10 of them to cause any damage, and 10 of them costs the same as a AT squad with 3 Lascannons. Come 5th that AT squad's gonna be a lot more useful, so the Ratlings get even worse.

BYE

So, we finally got our game in. What a debacle on my part.

First, I packed the wrong list so I ended up having to use the original one I posted way at the top. I went first, first turn was great for me.. Immobolized a predator in a corner making it useless the whole game. Knocked out a rhino, and a bunch of plague marines. Then they took cover in the 20,000 ruined buildings we had.. the guy made like every save ever.. all those plasmas didn't help, he got cover saves from em. Blah..

good news is I didn't fry any of my own guys at least.

What I did manage to do was at least knock down most of his units to not count for scoring anyway.. but then, he wiped out all of mine so I guess that didn't matter. once they got in charge range that was it, as usual.

Oh well, now at least I know what I did wrong and i can fix it for next time

I mighta done better vs normal chaos, but he had all plague marines.. toughness 5 just sucked for me :(

I think this is a fairly nice list man.

I like the idea of mass plasma. I have been giving thought of revisiting my old guard soon, with the usual 3 russes and quite a few plasma guns in 1500 points. I can see it working.

Good luck in your next game

I'm gonna give the newer list a try too. But, i think I might wanna lose the hellhounds.. all the games i've tried them in they just hardly ever get to do anything.. they get shot to bitz before the russes, I guess since they're just easier to kill.

i've been planning to make some sentinel-jeeps out of marine land speeders, so maybe 3 sentinels with lascannons would be a better choice for heavy support.. especially against marines...

Good list except for the vox casters. They are totally worthless.

Look your JO is LD8, so are your vets, when in Base to base with COD they become LD9 so why would you bother with a caster, also it only gives you +1 LD with IG, you would be better of spending 6 for a vet sgt and gain acces to the armory. Voxes are totally lame.

Helps when you read the whole thread Alex.

Live up to your user title. I know you can do it.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:You're right, Ratlings are a waste of time. You need 10 of them to cause any damage, and 10 of them costs the same as a AT squad with 3 Lascannons. Come 5th that AT squad's gonna be a lot more useful, so the Ratlings get even worse.

BYE

The ratlings with the pinning, rending weapons, and a 3+ cover save will become a lot worse?

I think that these guys will be handy in 5th. 111 points (if I recall) for a serious hassle causing unit. I can see them getting bumped for more vets from time to time, but to totally write them off is a mistake in my opinion.

Necros wrote:I'm gonna give the newer list a try too. But, i think I might wanna lose the hellhounds.. all the games i've tried them in they just hardly ever get to do anything.. they get shot to bitz before the russes, I guess since they're just easier to kill.

Hellhounds can be tricky to use because people are scared of them, and will tend to put a lot of heat on them. They are often MVPs in my armies. I love them when playing Cities of Death. Screen them with your russes perhaps, or when 5th rolls out, be sure to give them smoke. Give your hellhounds another chance, when they work they are amazing.

Battlekai wrote:I think this is a fairly nice list man.

I like the idea of mass plasma. I have been giving thought of revisiting my old guard soon, with the usual 3 russes and quite a few plasma guns in 1500 points. I can see it working.

Good luck in your next game

I like this list too. I have a similar one that has worked pretty well. Drop troops is a gamble no matter what way you cut it. Here is something that I have done in the past to good effect, I have put medics into the command squads with the plasmaguns. This can help them stay around a bit longer as it helps out when you roll badly for overheat. I haven't done the math to compare the performance of this unit vs one with 4 plasmaguns, but I have been pretty happy when I have run them.

Yeah I think this is what I'll stick with as my general guard list. But for going up against plague marines I might want to fill up more on HQ support squads.. like the 2 anti tank squads and I think 2 autocannon squads might to a bit better against the high toughness stuff.

I didn't have many problems wounding really, it was just the armor & cover saves plus the feel no pain cheat that they get. I also kind of advanced a bit with my tanks, next time if I just hang back with them I might do better.

But yeah in a COD game I could see things going a lot differently especially with the hellhounds. Heck I'd prolly want to take 3

H.B.M.C. wrote:Helps when you read the whole thread Alex.

Live up to your user title. I know you can do it.

BYE

Not lazy and smart are two different things. Listen to the Adicts and you'll figure out where my screen name came from. I didn't give it to myself.

Still Ratlings arent that great.

But do they auto Pinn. and any ways with new rending ok they have a lesser chance. I much rather have 3 vet squads with 3 meltas deep striking 111 is more then one squad of vets.....why? And in 5th Ed Lascannons are so much better...

The New Snipers on the other hand maybe....

Hell Hounds are great like said earlier most people now what they do but you just got to stick to cover basically.

Autocannons are good for the Infantry like them cause of it's high S value and such.

yeah I was just thinking for a rematch against these guys autocannons are the way to go.. and 2 fire support squads with em are only 95 pts I think.

I like the cadian sniper figs and had some ideas to convert some using marine scout snipers too. I'll prolly end up doing a unit of them just for the modeling fun, but save em for apocalypse games.