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I want to see my speedy lord hit the table in fun games. With the lack of eternal warrior and no utility gained over DPs (lightning claws is about the only thing he can get that they don't have built in or can buy with upgrades). He has some benefits but is generally not as killy or threatening (espescially to vehicles). I run a MOS lord with twin Lightning claws, and demonic steed of slaanesh.

Two questions:

In a friendly game would you be willing to allow your opponent to do this? I often play opponents I don't know for friendly pick up games in the FLGS, so assume it is with a person who is a stranger or only an acquaintance.

How much would you cost adding the ability?

My thoughts are: Most people would be willing to accept the minor change, espescailly if it means not facing yet another 2 DP list. I think 10-15 points would be reasonable as there is no invul save on a steed mounted character, and even if applied to any combination the best invul save would be 5+ from terminator armor. I don't run lists like Stelek's where I take high numbers of uber troops(nothing specifially wrong with those lists, i just like more variety and like to change out units in most battles). I usually run 2 DP, several squads of Basic CSM and one cult troop in rhinos, 2 oblits and change out the rest according to what sounds fun at the moment. I use raptors, chosen, terms, and even ocassionally pull out the suctastic defiler just because it is such a fun cool model that I want to show off for one turn before it dies.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Meph

it used to be 35 points.

dunno. Probably not. Powerfists are pretty expensive. If he is taking power fists in EVERY SQUAD he is paying a points premium for it anyway.

It does mean he can take on things like Terminator squads, not that they probably would not take him out anyway.

Gotta be more points. The lack of EW is the Lord's designed weakness, so patching it should cost a lot.

I can't see any reason why a steed mounted Lord would not retain his 5+ Invuln save.

Also, 5th is getting rid of IC shooting immunity, so the solo cavalry lord is a worse choice than previously, even with your unofficial buff.

I think a better use for the model would be to use it as a "counts as" biker lord, so he could join a squad of bikers or raptors.

Alternatively, you could run him as a counter assault unit with spawn as a cavalry lord. (Counter assault because the slow and purposeful could make them unreliable as front line assault.) This could be fluffy and fun, but probably not that effective for the points.

The best things about the lord are 1) Demon weapon and 2) ability to hide in squads on the way to assault. If you are not using both of these, I can't really see a good reason to take a lord instead of a prince or sorcerer regardless of EW.

I wouldn't allow it. Stick to the rules.

Wrong forum for this. Go to Proposed Rules.

Anyway, I'm not sure why you'd bother with this. If it's a fun game, run the Lord as best you can from the dex--it's just for fun, right? If it's anything more serious, then you can use what your dex gives you as far as I'm concerned. Things like homebrew characters are one thing, but little, pointless (aside from a small increase in effectiveness) changes are just strange.

If you insisted, I'd let you do it, since it isn't exactly uber. I'd just be really confused.

I too wish the Chaos Lord had EW, but you know, I don't think he needs it. Not for 100 points, anyway. And yeah, my lords either die to powerfists (the biker lord) or small arms fire (the Tizz lord) :S

- Salvage

Don't forget girls with chainsaws and self inflicted wounds Salvage.

Honestly, I think they make a few too many things immune to instant death. It seems to me that the reason for letting characters have invulnerable saves is to help them avoid the odd lascannon to the chest. Being able to just accept the hit is quite a strong bonus compared to other armies, and makes independant characters more powerful than they probably should be. I could see Eternal Warrior and the like allowing say a reroll of the roll to wound, or perhaps commuting ID to d3 wounds, but I dislike that it is just "Nope, sorry, only 1 wound for you!"

No problems. Looks like the answer most people would give is no, or wtf ... ok...

Thanks for pointing out a few things I forgot like still getting invul save...shows how not recently I read the lord entry...

In all fairness I guess I already knew that the best option is to suck it up and take the disadvantages and work around them as biztheclown suggests at the end of his post. Herohammer just annoys me when I want to use all of my models even though some are superior in almost every way to others ...but changing the rules really isn't a fix for that.

At TC: Oops ... I did post in the wrong place. I'm not sure how to move a thread though, so if a mod sees this and wants to put it in its proper home please feel free.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Meph

I suggest 'fun games' use the rules for Apocalypse, even if under 3,000 points, IMHO.

That means you can just take a Daemon Lord from the Daemons codex and he will have eternal warrior.

Sure he costs more points but he also Deep Strikes into play (which is generally a cool ability).

Wehrkind wrote:Don't forget girls with chainsaws and self inflicted wounds Salvage.

Honestly, I think they make a few too many things immune to instant death. It seems to me that the reason for letting characters have invulnerable saves is to help them avoid the odd lascannon to the chest. Being able to just accept the hit is quite a strong bonus compared to other armies, and makes independant characters more powerful than they probably should be. I could see Eternal Warrior and the like allowing say a reroll of the roll to wound, or perhaps commuting ID to d3 wounds, but I dislike that it is just "Nope, sorry, only 1 wound for you!"

Bah, I was being general. Bikey has only died once to mass eviscerators (who didn't kill him the first chance they had!), and my lords actually don't kill themselves, just incapacitate and let others do the job ...

Only recently have I heard people kvetching about "there's so much immune to instant death, sad time now" but when I think about it I can only disagree (except for Nids). Off the top of my head:

- Eldar phoenix lords
- CSM demon princes
- Tyranids within synapse
- Demons

What am I missing? And there's the mantle and IG item too, which is a pretty decent concept in itself, ignore the first instant kill. The Nid synapse thing I think is a bit OTT, but everything else makes sense to me. Hell, I think the chaos characters should be EW too, given who they are and how long they've been around, but I'd keep them as is if that means that marine characters stay fistable

And if anybody complains about demons being immune to ID across the board, have you seen the rest of the book besides that rule? Yeah.

- Salvage

I wouldn't have a problem with a Chaos Lord with EW. But, I always took a demonic rune on my lords in the older dex. It was so worth it to protect him from power fists. Often times I wish chaos lords still had it, but I can understand why they don't. It wouldn't really be far to space marine players if chaos lords had EW, but chapter masters and so forth don't.

I really think Kharn should have EW, because otherwise how the heck has he survived for so long? I can understand Typhus sending out plauge ships and avoiding huge combats. I can understand Ahriman looking for knowledge. And Lucius just possesses who ever kills him. But what about bunny ears? How has he avoided a bloody death all these years?

Maybe it never occured to some devastator to aim his lascannon specifically at Kharn.

Boss_Salvage wrote:What am I missing?

Abbabadndnandboom

Noisy_Marine wrote:I really think Kharn should have EW, because otherwise how the heck has he survived for so long?

Kharn is precisely who I had in mind when I mentioned chaos characters. Though FWIW he died at the Siege of Terra and was revived, and has been killing strong ever since. That whole 'chaotic resurrection' thing really gets a guy going.

- Salvage