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Howdy

So, I don;t know the new 5E rules too much yet, but have heard rumours of new running rules.

Quite simply to the point, does anyone think these rules will make close combat fexes worthwhile?

The point of my question is simple, I like the look of combat fexes and they appeal to me, so I amn looking for an excuse to use them

well n ow scary thing is the fact that you cant consolidate into another enemy troop, so even if you wipe out a squad or cause them to fall back then you are stuck in most armies nasty los for rapid fire and no covers most likely

I doubt it. Monstrous creatures only count as one model now and it seems like with their low initiative they would be easily overrun. I've never seen cc fexes used to any great effect and it doesn't look like that's going to change.

Bring devourers and then go for CC when you need too, maybe run first turn then walk and shoot. Fexxes are always good in CC but gets a little more flexibility this way.

Just stay away from powerfist units.

I think they'll a fun option in a smaller game, but there are still two huge problems:
1) Nid's don't suffer for great combat units
2) Fexes are good at other things

The discusion of close combat fexes is similar to a talk about fire support rough riders for IG: sure you can do it, but why? If you want a fex, take one for anti-tank or fire support. If you want a great combat unit, take stealers or hormies or ravenors.

Fexes can dish a bit in close combat, but they should only do that if they have to. You shouldn't ever try to get a Carnifex in close combat.

I suppose you might make a cheap Elite Carnifex to Run forward and be a fire magnet, but I can't really see any other use...

If fexs could deepstrike and assult then you could get them. Also they count as 10 models not 1. so they dont always get overrun.

TommyStriker wrote:I doubt it. Monstrous creatures only count as one model now and it seems like with their low initiative they would be easily overrun. I've never seen cc fexes used to any great effect and it doesn't look like that's going to change.

Yeah, but for the most part they are pretty hard to kill, so they can win combat handily against most units.

Kallbrand wrote:Bring devourers and then go for CC when you need too, maybe run first turn then walk and shoot. Fexxes are always good in CC but gets a little more flexibility this way.

Just stay away from powerfist units.

Thats how I would run them! Maybe only a single pair of Devourers and a pair of Scything Talons, thats what 4 shots at S6 reroll everything and 4 attacks on the charge? Should be enough to win combat against most squads without high strength power weapons or set to wound rolls. Plus with wounds counting towards combat resolution they have a greater chance to break their foes. And even if they dont then they can stick in CC to avoid getting shot at.

MCs seriously only count for 1 model now? Ahhhhhhaha!

For the record, I'm always interested in fex-heavy nids, and I think at this point I'd run scytals + barbed strangler + T7 + 2+ save, etc.

- Salvage

Close combat Fexes get a lot better in 5th. If thats enough to regularly field them will require a bit of testing though.

Here are some pros:

- Fexes can run. Mission objectives are more or less around the center of the map. Fexes can contest objectives.

- Prohibited consolidation into new combats favours resilient units (high strength + good save) that can survive a turn of rapidfire. Combat resolution with its focus on wound-difference allows Fexes to destroy even numerous foes. The rather low initiative can even be good at times, when you want to win combat in your turn, but stay locked till the opponents turn.

- Vehicles being hit on the rear armour, and the reduced efficiency of the former anti tank (glance only) ranged weapons favour close combat against vehicles. Again something that will let the attackers stand in the open relying on toughness.

- Many of the classical counters to Fexes got worse: Powerfists lose an attack. Lascannons more limited, rending toned down especially regarding Harlequins and Assault Cannons.

Overall I think it might be worthwhile to run, skip ranged weapons, and maximise wounds in close combat, to win combat resolution more likely.

Boss_Salvage wrote:MCs seriously only count for 1 model now? Ahhhhhhaha!

Do numbers count for anything at all regarding close combat results now? I thought I read somewhere that they do not (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Consider yourself corrected.

Not often do fexs win CC in the first round and drive off the enemy. It usually takes at least two turns, so I'm not to worried about this, "can't sweep into new combat". Also, if you do win in the turn you charge, I don't really care if that opens me up to rapid fire, don't forget you are a fexs, small arms fire doesn't scare me. Lascannons scare me....

Darth Balls wrote:Not often do fexs win CC in the first round and drive off the enemy. It usually takes at least two turns, so I'm not to worried about this, "can't sweep into new combat". Also, if you do win in the turn you charge, I don't really care if that opens me up to rapid fire, don't forget you are a fexs, small arms fire doesn't scare me. Lascannons scare me....

How about some rapid fire plasma guns?

IMO dakka fex still lots better than CC ones.

I think we'll have Elite template Fexes showing up alongside the Dakka Fexes & see some Alpha-CC Fexes pop up with the sole intent to cause havok and get into CC. It's going to be interesting I can say that!

I think after some tests ,you will find out that 2D6 scater with BS2 is not a very impressive thing, I would say it's just like a BS3 fex with BS in the 4th ed.

Fexes cant score, so is there any reason to run them forward, especially while they keep the two gun rule.

They can contest.

They can get up to 12 attacks on the charge now for extra killy goodness.

+2 Tusks
+1 Scything Talons
+6 Crushing Claws
+3 Scythe Tail

Aduro wrote:They can get up to 12 attacks on the charge now for extra killy goodness.

+2 Tusks
+1 Scything Talons
+6 Crushing Claws
+3 Scythe Tail

Yeah...6 carnifexes outfitted for close combat backed by 2 tyrant super units isn't exactly easy to drop.

Unlike a normal nidzilla army where you can focus fire on the gunfexes until the dakkafexes get in range...against a true foot pounding nidzilla army, you've really got to kill everything and there is no target priority.

CC Fexes + run + cover + move through cover + super unit backup + power fist nerf = viability.

That tyranid CC army I posted a while back has been refined a bit, but it's still a SOB to deal with. Especially on good fleet rolls on turns 1 and 2.

The Warrior version is also a PITA.

Aduro wrote:They can get up to 12 attacks on the charge now for extra killy goodness.

+2 Tusks
+1 Scything Talons
+6 Crushing Claws
+3 Scythe Tail

And costs a fortune, and once you invest in the necessary protection in wounds, toughness and armour, you have way too many points invested in a unit with limited effect and considerable weaknesses (any dedicated assault unit with power weapons or rending will still cut you up, as will any concentration of heavy weapons).

Instead of looking to super-fex stacked with upgrades, look at the discount bin entries - scything talons and little else. For a touch over 100 points you’ve got unit that’s quite durable and will win the same combats as the super-fex.

If there’s a future for the melee ‘fex in competitive play, and we’ll probably know in about a year’s time, that future will lie in keeping the ‘fex cheap.

You mean like these fexes?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212993.page

Stelek wrote:You mean like these fexes?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/212993.page

Pretty much. Time will tell if it works against enough opponents, but the basics look solid.

Wow, suprised at the interest on this topic.

I like the fexes you have put together in your list Stelek.

I am tempted to run 2 fexes in that configuration, along with a dakkafex and a BS VC fex in my 1500 point army.

It'd be a bit different, and CC fexes look pretty schweet too, so thats a plus

Harr harr harr. You should see what a fex can do when a Broodlord is also running towards the enemy from 12/18 inches away. Talk about drawing fire...

Ratbarf wrote:Harr harr harr. You should see what a fex can do when a Broodlord is also running towards the enemy from 12/18 inches away. Talk about drawing fire...

Don't forget 40 scuttling Genestealers with re-rolls to wound/hit in CC... those bring a lot of distraction fire away from Fexes as well. As illustrated in Stelek's list.

Wh, the thing I like about it is that it really diverts the first few firing phases at the Brood lord cause they know if they ignore it it will come back to whack them in the nadz.

Okay, so I am thinking that it may be worthwhile taking 1 maybe 2 close combat fexes in 1500 points. They will either draw fire or the opponent ignores them and they end up hurting him hard.

I am also thinking its gonna be best to keep them cheap, possibly elite CC fexes will work best?

Battlekai wrote:Okay, so I am thinking that it may be worthwhile taking 1 maybe 2 close combat fexes in 1500 points. They will either draw fire or the opponent ignores them and they end up hurting him hard.

I am also thinking its gonna be best to keep them cheap, possibly elite CC fexes will work best?

One thing to watch out for with only a couple cheap CC fexes... the enemy can pump some effective shots into them right away and then finish them with a tough CC unit of thier own in assault later... probably better to spam the opponent than give them easy pickings.

With the inabilty to consolidate into new combats to roll upp gunlines it seems that if you wanna go CC you better commit to it.