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Edit: Link added for reference by yakface: http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showthread.php?p=127054#post127054


The design studio's idea of humor...man this stuff cracks me up. My comments in BOLD. GW Quotes in Italics.

CHAOS DEMONS:

Lots of Deep Striking Daemon Troops can capture game-winning objectives with ease.

Including your own, unprotected in the back. Don't forget anyone with brains has his objective(s) covered and far from where you can deep strike.

Running also allows units to disperse after Deep Striking, offering them protection from template weapons.

Totally countered by the fact there are no partials anymore from said template weapons--a hit is a hit.

CHAOS SPACE MARINES:

Both running and more resilient transports will get close combat specialists into combat faster.

Unfortunately, since you cannot assault any differently...you will run into rapid fire/assault range, and be rapid fired/assaulted. Ref: Basic Math. 6+6=12. No matter how I roll D6, I cannot get out of assault/rapid fire range of the enemy without taking myself out of assault range.

Template weapons, such as Havoc's missile launchers, Obliterator's plasma cannons and the Defiler's battle cannons are now more effective at hitting multiple targets as there are no longer partial hits from template weapons.

Wait...wait...either you are SAFE from template weapons, or you AREN'T. Which is it?

DARK ELDAR:

Dark Eldar transports are much safer now that glancing hits are less dangerous and passengers take less damage when their transports are destroyed.

Except...you don't get SMF auto-glancing anymore, so...do you mean Lascannon hits that roll a 1 to penetrate are "less dangerous"? Less damage? See, in the old days, when Licrest and Co were shot out of their transports, they were all wounded on a 4+ with a re-roll. Now it's a 3+ with no re-roll? Woot! The mathhammer geeks will go crazy figuring that one out.

The new rules for intervening models allow units of Dark Eldar Warriors or Scourges to be screened by friendly troops.

Who is going to screen the DE warriors? That's right...DE Warriors! Scourges...people play Scourges? Where?! I gotta see this.

Dark Eldar Wyches count as Troops in Lelith Hesperax’s Wych army meaning they can capture objectives, and as noted above, the increased chance of receiving a cover save greatly enhances their surviveability without hampering their movement.

Wait...wait...are...are...you...suggesting...that Wyches run on foot towards the enemy to get cover saves?

ELDAR:

Now that transports have become less dangerous for the passengers, Falcons and Wave Serpents are better for carrying troops.

Now because they get penetrated and die? They didn't die before, so how are they 'better'? Falcon, worse. Wave Serpent, better. Facts, straight.

IMPERIAL GUARD:

The enemy can no longer consolidate into another assault, so your line won't be rolled up the moment a single enemy unit hits your forces.

Unless the enemy hits your line with multiple units across multiple units, and cunningly clears you out on YOUR turn. Just like now...

NECRONS:

Now that glancing hits can no longer kill it, the Monolith is even harder to destroy.

Yes, you are correct. Please nerf immediately. I already own a Tau army and do not need to buy another so Necrons can't laugh at my anti-tank.

Now that they can Run, Necrons can effectively field an assault force.

I'm speechless.

ORKS:

When they are done protecting Boyz Mobs, Grots can sneak off to claim objectives.

Until anyone looks their way and decides grots make a handy springing off point for a counter offensive into a Ork horde with a tarpit unit. Hope you can roll on two rolls, before you get annihilated. Grots have their uses, this isn't really a good one. Tanks and anyone elevated will smoke your Orks anyway since grots are short.

TAU:

Enemies can't consolidate into a new assault, so Fire Warriors gun lines can’t be wiped out by a single close combat unit.

Play more, write less. Fire Warriors can be pulled out of position with 1 unit (see countercharges) and hit with another CC unit. See, tactics > talk. Smacking multiple Tau units around with multiple CC units is just as effective as it was before. Now you just can't play lazy.

Fire Warriors mounted in Devilfish make excellent game-winning objective grabbers.

Buy your new shiny Fish o'Fury boxed sets now! Wait, what? You have? All of you? Well, they're not nerfed! You can make it across the table and take objectives. Yes really. Hey who put the life preserver here? Sinking ship? HEY!

With real Line of Sight, lesser creatures can more effectively shield the all-important Synapse Creatures of the Hive Mind.

With real Line of Sight, lesser creatures can less effectively shield the all-important Synapse Creatures of the Hive Mind. There, fixed your typo. EYES TO TORSO GOES OVER THE HEADS OF STEALERS! Wait...are WARRIORS lesser creatures?

WITCH HUNTERS:

Flamers and heavy flamers are now much more powerful as there are no partial hits from template weapons.

Wait...when were there partial hits from template weapons? SOMEONE TELL THE FANTASY GUYS TO PLAY 40K4 BEFORE THEY "FIX" IT FOR HEAVENS SAKE!!

The new Line of Sight rules will provide ample targets for Exorcists.

You could shoot marines in 40k4 anyway. Now they get saves. Exorcists le suck. Good fix.

Please note I am a ardent fan of 40K, and this is tongue-in-cheek humor.

Seriously though...write less silly comments.

FYI - The Tau and Tyranid comments and squished together. And I've seen this fun facts sheet they threw together and it gives me a migraine. Like they know they have to rationalize everything they changed immediately. "Look, look! its not that bad!"

The DE comments made me laugh. Good way to start the day.

The thing is, internet communities and comments like these are what make them feel like they have defend everything they do, leading to silly releases like this. That said, many of the things ridiculed here are in fact true statements:

Running after deepstrike does help protect you from blast markers. The fact of the matter is that you are still more likely to take more hits from a blast marker clumped together than spread out.

Running and more resiliant transports DO help close combat specialists get into combat faster. Note they said nothing about being the one to assault or not take incoming fire.

You are safer being spread out versus templates, but blasts overall are more powerful. These are not mutually exclusive statements.

DE transports are safer. Are you not going to be moving flat out to unload your payload? Small arms fire glancing cannot destroy you, and I believe someone already ran the numbers on the 4+ cover save being better against any weapons of Str9 or less than SMF was.

The Falcon is better for carrying troops. Again, the numbers have already been run. It's harder to kill with anything lower than Str 10 than it was before, as long as it's moving flat out, which is what you're going to be doing if you are using it to transport troops. The Falcon is MUCH worse as a battle tank, but slightly better as a transport.

Enemy consolidation does prevent your firing line from being rolled up by a single enemy unit. Yes, multiple units in your line will still get you, but it's much easier when playing IG or Tau to only allow one unit to hit you than to allow no units to hit you.

The difference between this edition and last is that those FCW in Devilfish still claim the object if they are mounted. That's a significant difference, allowing them to load and jet over on the last turn to claim. So they are even better than before at this task.

Again, not disagreeing that some of the statements are silly (Grots taking objectives, Necron Assault WTF), but most of them are in fact true statements.

It's a good thing Smoke is getting better so they can blow more up our asses.

I think the sheet does an overall good job of explaining the changes to the new edition.

You never know exactly who is writing these things and what kind of tactical knowledge they have about the game but (as evidenced by a couple of the more questionable bits of advice).

But still it is a promotional piece for the company so like any other promotion you expect it to highlight the positive changes to each race while ignoring the negatives. No company would do it any differently.

SIGH. Nevermind.

yakface wrote:But still it is a promotional piece for the company so like any other promotion you expect it to highlight the positive changes to each race while ignoring the negatives. No company would do it any differently.

But of course you knew I knew that.

avantgarde wrote:It's a good thing Smoke is getting better so they can blow more up our asses.

And that's just funny.

Stelek wrote:

IF you roll high.

IF it isn't a large blast and clips you anyway.

IF it isn't a flamer template.

The only situation in which it benefits you to be clumped when facing a template of any kind, is when it's a blast and they roll a large number on the 2d6 AND don't roll a hit on the scatter dice. Obviously this situation is going to come up on something resembling a semi-regular basis, but more often it will be advantageous to by spread out. Running facilitates this, making their initial statement true.

Stelek wrote:
DE transports are not necessarily safer.

Those in a Wych army that will be running forward, are safer.

Immune to small arms fire? S4 shots en masse blow you out of the sky.

Safer vs lascannon fire for Wyches moving all out.

Not safer for anyone else, or against light weapons fire. If you get glanced 6 times, you're still dead.

Not arguing with any of your points, but that doesn't mean that their statement, that DE transports are less vulnerable, is untrue. They may not be less vulnerable by enough to actually matter in game play (I honestly don't know, and will have to see how it turns out as we have a pretty dedicated DE player in my area), but GWs actual statement remains true.

Celestial Lion wrote:Could you kindly show me the posts backing up those statistics?

The Falcon is MUCH better as a MBT now, and isn't really changed as a transport.

Go ahead and zoom 24" but you can still get assaulted and have your vehicle blown up rather easily.

You bet: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/212486.page

It's Dire Wombat's post, a little down in the thread. The thing is, the Falcon only gets its 4+ if it gives up its ability to shoot, so the only time it is impossible to kill is when it's acting more like a transport and less like a battle tank. Now yes, I get that you can screen it up with Vypers or whatnot to grant it that save without moving flat out, but the other armies also have mobile firepower to end around your screen, and even if they don't, then you are still forced to dictate your battle plan around screening that Falcon, making it less user friendly than before. And if it does get caught without that screen then it is not too much more survivable than a venerable dreadnought. I would say these factors combine to create the exact opposite of what you are describing. It is a more cumbersome and vulnerable battle tank, and a slightly better (according to DW's numbers) transport. Finally, to address the last point, since you pick where your vehicle moves to, you can certainly protect it from being assaulted on your opponent's turn.

Devilfish can only move 12" in v5.

As in v4. And since FCW can only move 6+d6" on foot, versus 2" embark + 12" Devilfish, I would say that that makes Devilfish mounted squads better at objective grabbing.

Of course, intelligent players (many are included in this tally) will simply stun your devilfish and ignore it.

Once the vehicle is stunned if the game doesn't end that turn it is easy for opponents to shoot or assault the vehicle and kill the unit inside.

I have only skimmed the rulebook at my store, does being in a stunned vehicle at the end of the game take away the troops inside ability to score? If so, then that certainly makes that tactic much less worthwhile, though your opponent does still have to actual do the stunning, even if he is intelligent enough to see that is the play to make. Oftentimes that's harder than it looks, and in the same vein, destroying troops in a transport is not as easy as it has been in v4.

I included the link to tongue-in-cheek humor because I'm not being serious.

Oh, I getcha and I noted that before making my original post. Just felt like debating some of the points you made mostly for the heck of it I guess.

It may have been tongue in cheek, but it just seemed overly critical of something that really wasn't THAT badly written I thought. Many of your counterpoints are stretching at best, often criticising pretty good advise in parts.

There are SO MANY better things to complain about in v5 than advising you to run after a deep strike that should be the subject of ridicule I'm a little surprised you latched onto these. Things like true LOS being far-from true LOS since you can shoot stuff out of range and out of LOS (had to read THAT one twice) and moving pieces of area terrian to fit models, but cover saves relying on those trees you just moved o.O?

Now that they can Run, Necrons can effectively field an assault force.



I laughed so much I nearly spilt tea all over the keyboard at work - Its a work of genius

Thanks for sharing, Stelek, this post brightened up my morning

Necron Assault Force?

That's almost as funny as the CityFight Tactica that suggested to Tau players that 'Master Sniper' was a great Strategem to take for Drone Sniper Teams.

I mean, never mind the fact that Drone Sniper Teams don't actually have Sniper Rifles...



BYE

Excellent. Monoliths harder to kill. To be honest, I have always felt sorry for them..
1.Skimmer rule
2.AV14. all around.
3.Can DS
4.Can act as a 'Portal'
5.Living Metal.
6.Effective Blast/nasty weapons.
7.Cost less than a LR.

Poor Necrons.

I would also like to see a game where 2 opposing Armies were Grot heavy, and tried taking objectives.

As for the unadulterated overenthusiasm behind GW's descriptions........

They paid a Marketing guy ALOT to come up with some of those ploys/tactics.

He may have even had to play a game of 40k or two to get the $$$'s.

Maybe.

You miss the point about devilfish.

If I stun you before the last turn, how are you zooming?

Tau do not get extra armor.

See what I mean? If I stun you, you stand still and cannot move...so the FW have to get out and hoof it.

Since you can shoot transports down and assault the stuff inside, it seems like running up isn't really an option for Tau. I can see it for Eldar, but not Tau. 24" > 12".

All make sense now?

Oh and please no more Necrons running assault armies without power weapons on Necron units...it's as silly as Farsight assaulting marines. Yes, he has a power weapon. Does that mean he's assaulty? No, it doesn't.

Stelek wrote:You miss the point about devilfish.

If I stun you before the last turn, how are you zooming?

Tau do not get extra armor.

See what I mean?

I do indeed. My bad. Certainly a very valid point

Honestly, this is my fav part:

Grey Knight Terminators can Deep Strike to contest objectives and with more forgiving Deep Strike rules you are much less likely to lose expensive units to unfortunate rolls of the scatter dice

Wait... so, I'm supposed to be happy that my GK Termies are now allowed to contest objectives. But couldn't they hold objectives previously? How is this a good thing?

And more forgiving? There's a table now that can have my opponent place my models for me. Again, how is this a good thing?

BYE

moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan

As a former Guard player, the changes make me very, very happy.

As a Marine player with Rhinos, I'm happy.

As a potential Nidzilla player, I'm ecstatic! Running Carnies? WOO HOO!

Shifting the emphasis to Troops can only be a good thing. Stops beardy gits taking their 2 min Troops and then whooping me with all the uber powerful stuff which any army should have less of, not more of as they do at the moment.

No consolidating into another Assault is going to take some getting used to.

Gunlines for everyone?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Honestly, this is my fav part:

Grey Knight Terminators can Deep Strike to contest objectives and with more forgiving Deep Strike rules you are much less likely to lose expensive units to unfortunate rolls of the scatter dice

Wait... so, I'm supposed to be happy that my GK Termies are now allowed to contest objectives. But couldn't they hold objectives previously? How is this a good thing?

And more forgiving? There's a table now that can have my opponent place my models for me. Again, how is this a good thing?

BYE

Agree completely. How is deepstrike more forgiving now? You take wounds if you land in difficult terrain now!!!! You didn't before!

Deep Strike is actually less forgiving because if *any* model in your DSing unit can't be placed without coming within 1" of the enemy, on a friendly model, in impassable terrain or off the table then you roll on the mishap chart (1-2 the whole unit dies, 3-4 the opponent places the unit with no scatter, 5-6 the unit goes back into reserve).

That actually makes Deep Striking much more risky.

As somebody already pointed some of these new "tactics" are ridiculous and some are good pieces of advice. But at least we can get a nice laugh out of it. Like assaulting with Wraithguard and Wraithlords like real men (TM) do instead of using those power weapon packing pussies (bad pun totaly intended ) or the totaly unoriginal clowns from hell.

M.

The whole think kind of reads like its taken directly from the imperial infantrymans uplifting primer.
A good laugh. Some of the stuff is true, but is quite countered by what they didnt mention. But Yakface is right, what company in their right mind would list the negatives for their customers.

I guess if they had just written :OMG, everyones armies are screwed! The Sky is falling! You need to buy new stuff to compete! then the Dakka community wouldnt have had anytrhing to say.


I for one am going to take these valuable tactics to heart. They come straight from GW! Victory will be mine! My grot screen will be invaluable against all the new assault Necrons !

I'm pretty sure that lists which don't have very points effective troops choices will just ignore them altogether and just contest every objective while destroying enemy units.

I'm going to take this little sheet as more evidence for my theory that GW really needs to hire a PR firm. The actual changes for 5th edition are going to be great for nearly every army, but this sheet makes them sound horrible! I'm sure they spent about 20 minutes or less putting it together, but as a promotional material for their new edition, including such silly suggestions just seems odd to me. Like I've been saying, I really think GW get's in more trouble with gamers for how they do things and how they explain them then for what they do.

moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan moan

As a former Guard player, the changes make me very, very happy.

The point Stelek is going off on how silly the statements are on new tactics that are senseless. I think on the whole most everyone I have spoke with are happy with the new rules.

Lemartes wrote:


The point Stelek is going off on how silly the statements are on new tactics that are senseless. I think on the whole most everyone I have spoke with are happy with the new rules.

Come now, we all know that the only thing you're allowed to complain about online is people complaining. Criticizing a product or company is a horrible thing that no sane person would do. Calling other people crybabies and wimps is manly and noble!

Stelek wrote:
NECRONS:

Now that glancing hits can no longer kill it, the Monolith is even harder to destroy.

Funny how they try and spin that rule as a positive for Necrons, nevermind the nerf to Gauss weapons because of it.
I mean the Lith is obscene, but for the army as a whole the rule hurts.

Play more, write less. Fire Warriors can be pulled out of position with 1 unit (see countercharges) and hit with another CC unit. See, tactics > talk. Smacking multiple Tau units around with multiple CC units is just as effective as it was before. Now you just can't play lazy.

Dont you move all assulters before defenders reaction now, at least according to the ref. sheet?

Other then that, spot on and quite a laugh.. as usual when GW tries PR.

It was a neat attempt at describing some of the changes per army. It's also semi laughable. Regardless, it's not worth multiple pages of argument and mathhammer debate.


Moving on.