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So, how does indirect fire work in 5th? Is it better or worse than current?

not much of a rules question, lol.
But "better" i suppose. Indirect = Barrage. Its better in that it hits Vehicles in the Side armor. Worse in that it can scatter much much further.
Multiple Barrages got a boost as well. Being able to go off of any of the templates fired in the Barrage on a "hit"

strange_eric wrote:Multiple Barrages got a boost as well. Being able to go off of any of the templates fired in the Barrage on a "hit"

You could do that in 4th also.

They work like all other blast weapons for the most part.

You place the marker over a model in the target unit and make sure it is in range.

You then roll a scatter die and 2D6. If a 'hit' is rolled the blast is on target.

If a 'miss' is rolled but the target is within LOS you subtract the firer's BS from the scatter. If the target is out of LOS then the blast scatters the full 2D6.

What about pinning from indirect barrage weapons?

All barrage are pinning still.

In 5th ed Indirect range or "guess" weapons work as follows.

1. Pick a target
2. Check range (min and max)
3. Roll 2d6 and the scatter dice. If a "hit" is rolled place the center of the template over the target. If the arrow is rolled the template moves in that direction whatever the result was on the 2d6.
4. Roll to wound any models under the template (even partially)
5. Defender rolls saves (if any)
6. If the defender suffers any causalities he must make a pinning check. If the check fails the unit immediately "goes to ground"

Red_Lives wrote:In 5th ed Indirect range or "guess" weapons work as follows.

1. Pick a target
2. Check range (min and max)
3. Roll 2d6 and the scatter dice. If a "hit" is rolled place the center of the template over the target. If the arrow is rolled the template moves in that direction whatever the result was on the 2d6.
4. Roll to wound any models under the template (even partially)
5. Defender rolls saves (if any)
6. If the defender suffers any causalities he must make a pinning check. If the check fails the unit immediately "goes to ground"

One more thing:

If the target is within LOS of the firer then the Scatter is reduced by their BS. If the target is out of LOS then the scatter is the full 2D6.

I thought that doesn't happen with indirect fire regardless of sight?

Red_Lives wrote:I thought that doesn't happen with indirect fire regardless of sight?

Nope, the only scatter the full 2D6 if they fire at a target they cannot see.

yea... but blast weapons still blow in 5th ed. The average scatter roll for a space marine plasma cannon is 3" hooray it should now miss most of the time >.<

Squig_herder wrote:

minus the BS? that stucks for armies like orks
i thought that it was only 1D6 scatter if you have LOS

No. 2D6-BS for blast/barrage/ordnance weapons firing at targets in LOS.

I wouldn't cry too hard for the Orks, they've got plenty of other things going for them.

Red_Lives wrote:yea... but blast weapons still blow in 5th ed. The average scatter roll for a space marine plasma cannon is 3" hooray it should now miss most of the time >.<

But you have to remember that all of those partials count as hits now. That is a big deal, if you were using the marker properly in 4th. Remember, the fourth ed. rule said it was a partial unless the base was covered. That means if even a small amount of base is out, it is a partial. This means that if you do hit dead on, you could easily wrap up four or five guys in a plasma cannon shot.

Also, remember that if you do hit a cluster of guys, the way I understand the rules you roll for wounds THEN apply them before rolling any saves ( cover or otherwise ). This means if you nailed enough guys you could force an armor save specifically on a heavy weapon or some other prime target.

On the subject of blast weapons in general, and barrage in particular, has there been any discussion about the interaction of blast weapons and cover saves from intermingled units?

I'm sure there is an argument for it, but I find the idea that two intermingled units would get cover saves from barrage weapons hitting models in both squads somewhat distateful.

Red_Lives wrote:yea... but blast weapons still blow in 5th ed. The average scatter roll for a space marine plasma cannon is 3" hooray it should now miss most of the time >.<

A hit is still a hit, i.e. no scatter. Combined with no more partials and even when missing you still have a chance to hit something (especially when targeting a horde), I think you're underestimating the usefulness of blast weapons.

Will the templates still allow saves?

Red_Lives wrote:yea... but blast weapons still blow in 5th ed. The average scatter roll for a space marine plasma cannon is 3" hooray it should now miss most of the time >.<

That's only if you are firing at one small based model.

Most of the time you will be firing at units, and since the standard Plasma Cannon defense is to spread out, you hit more often (though you hit less models with each hit.)

I take at least one Plasma cannon dev squad, and they are DEADLY! I ususally get 2-4 models with each hit, and I usually hit a squad of ten models 3 times out of four easy, a larger squad, like a 30 man ork mob is pretty much hit automatically.

After you destroy most of a squad, you then should switch to more precision weapons, like heavy bolters and the like to finish off the stragglers, and get those plasma cannons on a fresh squad.


Seriously plasma Cannons are one of the best weapons the SM have these days.


This is also an example of how Mathhammer is not necessarily Warhammer.

Flinty wrote:On the subject of blast weapons in general, and barrage in particular, has there been any discussion about the interaction of blast weapons and cover saves from intermingled units?

I'm sure there is an argument for it, but I find the idea that two intermingled units would get cover saves from barrage weapons hitting models in both squads somewhat distateful.

I'm sure there will be a FAQ about the "voodoo formation" after the First GT where someone tries it.

Flinty wrote:On the subject of blast weapons in general, and barrage in particular, has there been any discussion about the interaction of blast weapons and cover saves from intermingled units?

I'm sure there is an argument for it, but I find the idea that two intermingled units would get cover saves from barrage weapons hitting models in both squads somewhat distateful.

Standard blast and ordnance weapons follow the normal rules for cover saves: If the majority of models in the target unit are in cover from the majority of the firers then the unit gets a cover save. The physical position of the blast marker has absolutely no bearing on cover.


With barrage weapons, cover is determined by where the center of the blast ends up instead of from the firing model's LOS. But still, in the case of truly interspersed enemy units it isn't going to matter which direction the shot comes from, a cover save is going to be awarded.