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Be harsh.

Doctrines:

Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Drop Troops
Veterans
Sharpshooters

Total Points: 1746


HQ: (81)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), Honorifica Imperialis (25), Standard Bearer (11) = 81 points

Comments: Hides.

ELITES: (225)

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Comments: All drop.

TROOPS:

Platoon One: (465)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), 4x Meltagun (40) = 85 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Platoon Two: (465)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), 4x Meltagun (40) = 85 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

HEAVY SUPPORT: (510)

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Improved Comms (20): 170

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Improved Comms (20): 170

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Improved Comms (20): 170


I've never run a Drop Troops force before, or an IG force; this is entirely theorycraft. I've got a few questions:

1. Is it actually necessary/wise to take one or multiple Improved Comms for a drop troops force?
2. Currently, I plan on dropping my infantry squads. Is this unwise, since they only have one plasmagun? Should I deploy them normally, and only drop the command squads/vets?
3. Is it possible to only have Command squad of a platoon drop, and deploy rest of the platoon normally?
4. Plasma pistols. Should I add veteran sergeants and plasma pistols into the line infantry squads, or is that extra s7 ap2 shot not worth the points?
5. Lascannons: Better in a HQ-attached heavy weapons team, or better with the line infantry as they currently are?

Alt version of the list removes some or all improved comms, replaces line infantry lascannons with plasma pistols, and adds two 3x lascannon squads to the HQ. If I end up with the points I'd throw sharpshooters on the heavy weapons teams and the melta hqs.

Thanks!

Ok, the revised version: less Improved Comms, judicious application of Sharpshooters, and the lascannons are in HW teams rather than in the drop squads:

DROP GUARD 1750 v2:

Doctrines:

Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Drop Troops
Veterans
Sharpshooters

Total Points: 1748


HQ: (321)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), Honorifica Imperialis (25), Standard Bearer (11) = 81 points

Anti-Tank Support Squad: 6x Guardsmen (35), 3x Lascannon (75), Sharpshooters (10) = 120 points

Anti-Tank Support Squad: 6x Guardsmen (35), 3x Lascannon (75), Sharpshooters (10) = 120 points

ELITES: (225)

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points


TROOPS: (732)

Platoon One: (366)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), 4x Meltagun (40), Sharpshooters (10) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10) = 75 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10) = 75 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10) = 75 points

Infantry Squad (Remnant): 6x Guardsmen (36) Plasma Gun (10) = 46 points


Platoon Two: (366)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), 4x Meltagun (40), Sharpshooters (10) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10) = 75 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10) = 75 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10) = 75 points

Infantry Squad (Remnant): 6x Guardsmen (36) Plasma Gun (10) = 46 points



HEAVY SUPPORT: (470)

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5): 150

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5): 150

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Improved Comms (20): 170

Guard Squads without Heavy Weapons?

Try again.

BYE

Ok, your second list BLOWS.

So lets work with the first one:

Command squad.... hides? THen why the banner and honorifica? Why honorifica at all? Just get an HSO.
Veterans: Good, maybe throw in a melta gun to each one, so it's 2 plasma, one melta. Never know when you need it.
Troops: Command squads drop in, especially with 4 meltas. I would actually just park your normal squads. That's 8 lascannons of kick-ass to just place.
Heavies: 3 lemans is good - they draw a lot of fire though, so don't get scared the first time, if you play it. Drop improved comms off of two of the tanks. Give them sponson bolters. Again, it's worth the points, even in 5th. If you get a weapon destroyed, and you have sponsons, at least you're not a 180 pt heavy bolter turret.

Other than that, good start. ALWAYS keep your heavy weapon. If for some reason a squad can't take a heavy weapon, run them forward!

This is pretty much exactly the kind of criticism I'm looking for. Please continue to pull no punches. Since I'm new to Guard, the more honest appraisal I get, the less money I waste on models I don't need.

Here's the new version of the list:

DROP GUARD 1750 v2:

Doctrines:

Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Drop Troops
Veterans
Sharpshooters

Total Points: 1746


HQ: (81)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), Honorifica Imperialis (25), Standard Bearer (11) = 81 points


ELITES: (225)

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Veterans: 4x Vets, 1xSergeant (45), 3x Plasma gun (30) = 75 points

Comments: Drops.

TROOPS: (940)

Platoon One: (475)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), 4x Meltagun (40), Sharpshooters (10) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points


Platoon Two: (465)

Command Squad: Junior Officer (40), Iron Discipline (5), 4x Meltagun (40) = 85 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points

Infantry Squad: 10x Guardsmen (60) Plasma Gun (10), Lascannon (25) = 95 points


HEAVY SUPPORT: (500)

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Heavy Bolter sponsons (10): 160

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Heavy Bolter sponsons (10): 160

Leman Russ (140) w/hull heavy bolter (5), extra armor (5), Improved Comms (20), Heavy Bolter sponsons (10): 180

All Russes have bolter sponsons now, and I managed to squeeze Sharpshooters on one of the two melta-drop squads.

Jhagadurn: I'd like to keep the Vets to a specific purpose in each squad; while making one of the three squads 3x melta seems reasonable, I don't like to mix special weapons as a rule.

The command squad is there just to provide morale bonuses. I'll stick it behind cover in the middle of the line and provide Iron Discipline and Ld9 rerolls via the company standard. The JO + Honorifica gives me a HSO for 65 points instead of 70.

I think you're right that I shouldn't bother dropping the regular infantry squads. In most cases it's probably too risky.

I agree re: Boltor sponsons. Fixed that.

Would it be worthwhile to try to drop one of the infantry squads and squeeze in a Hellhound?

You dont need sharp shooters


But your just droping the Vet's? (so it's not really a drop Army.)

You need all the Inf. you can fit. Your IG you love Inf. So dont Drop another Platoon for a hell hound

Thats Decent you do have 8 Lascannon's and 20 Plasma.

You should Drop the Platoon's HQ's and have them kill everything.

Well, I don't know what I should do re: dropping. I planned it to be an 'all drop' army but I'm not sure if I should with the heavy weapons? Or does it not really matter?

Things that would always, always drop: Vets, Melta HQs.

Things I don't know about because I'm new to guard and don't know wtf: squads with plas/lascannon.

If I drop everything, the only stuff on the board at the beginning would be the 3 Russes.

Sigh. It's still crap.

I will show you how to do this properly.

Here is a link:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/213447.page

Crap? Ok. The question is: why? Not enough hellhounds to deal with hordes? HQ squad set up for morale rather than meltaguns?

I was about to criticize your Last Chancers selection until I read the rule about sub-units. It's particularly nasty in 5th since the krak grenades give every single LC team a good chance to blow up any tank in assault via hitting rear armor with s6.

You have a mixed bag army that anyone can put away.

Anti-tank into the tanks, everything else into the infantry.

If you can assault, run across the field and assault.

Orks will have a field day with you, no hellhounds means 180 ork armies will get to your lines. Most horde armies do the same thing.

Tau will just shoot you off the board.

I could go on and on, but either bring something harder than guard...ALOT of guard...or drop suicide squads into the enemy.

Hellhounds + Leman russes let you bring the suicide squads because you can rip holes in hordes with 'em.

Well he's right. to a degree.

Anti Tank is a lil harder now so his Russes are pretty solid.

Orks would die to the 3 Russes would they not. ( they dont have great anti tank)

Tau are still annoying but arent uber gay any more.

Hell hound is really good but you can still wipe hordes up with 3 Heavy bolters or 1 battle cannon.


But you shouldnt Drop Lascannon squads (dont Deepstrike it's a waste)

Yea it would be worth while to Drop a squad for a hell hound.

Drop Sharpshooters and a Vet Squad and take a Hell hound with Heavy stubber and Extra Arm.

You got 8 Lascannons thats pretty good.

Just Play test it againist a good horde army.

It's hard to argue with raw optimization, nor do I want to. If we're trying to make a competitive list, and the Hellhound is the best Fast Attack choice (and superior to a lot of other non-FA choices), it's entirely reasonable to take 3, just like we take 3 Russes.

Especially since in 5th, 'normal shooting' takes a huge nerf due to the proliferation of 4+ cover saves, which the Hellhounds can ignore.

Basically the ideal drop guard list is trying to do what the Last Chancer's list does, but it's impossible to take as many melta/plas in the base list. You could have 'stripped' infantry squads desgined only to drop, with as many command sections as you can take, something like 2x HQ commands with 4x melta or plasma, then try to pack your troops with squad command + 2 squads of grunts with only a special weapon.

About the only thing I can think of that a traditional drop guard force could do better than that LC army is objective holding, but the LC force can wipe things out enough through sheer firepower and contest most markers with tanks, only to capture one or two. Also, the LC force is far more compact than most guard armies in terms of kill points.

From a sheer number-crunching perspective, it seems like the best choice for Guard is to bring no tanks at all (SAFH swarm) or to bring 6+.

It's a pretty good army.

Rereading it you could probelly beat any of Stelek's Horde Armies

I Really would like to see more lascannons but thats a good amount.

Hell hound would be very good.

1. Is it actually necessary/wise to take one or multiple Improved Comms for a drop troops force?
Yes and no. I dont really ever take improved comms. There may be times when you do NOT want to bring in a unit however a re-roll is nice. It has never really appealed to me personally and I have done just fine without it.

2. Currently, I plan on dropping my infantry squads. Is this unwise, since they only have one plasmagun? Should I deploy them normally, and only drop the command squads/vets?
This is VERY unwise because you are taking lascannons which will be unable to fire so that is 100 points that are being thrown away. Keep in mind that whatever you DS likely die immediately. Do you really want to kill ALL you troop units like that? Especially in 5th ed when those are the ones that will score?

3. Is it possible to only have Command squad of a platoon drop, and deploy rest of the platoon normally?
YES
4. Plasma pistols. Should I add veteran sergeants and plasma pistols into the line infantry squads, or is that extra s7 ap2 shot not worth the points?
Give it to the officer. I would say drop the lascannons and get the pistols to everyone that can have one. Those 10 points could potentially kill a 50 point terminator.

5. Lascannons: Better in a HQ-attached heavy weapons team, or better with the line infantry as they currently are?
I only use them in anti tank squadrons. Or else the dampen the mobility of your regular units.

Smart Alex--"I would say drop the lascannons "

Are you High ?

Yea drop the Best thing he has for 5th ed a lascannon.
Only thing that can hurt the monolith yea.(cause meltas cant really)

Just stick with that list drop sharpshooter's and maybe a Vet squad and take a Hell hound.

The russes are fine for horde contorl though.