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Well, as I've returned to the 40K & DakkaDakka folds, it only seems right to post an army list. Here's what I'm thinking about running. Common Opponents are Vanilla Marines, Thousand Sons & Tyranids with the occasional IG thrown in.

I'm sure you ruthless people can help me optimize this to be nasty killy death to all

HQ 1
Commander Shas'el
Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle
Multi-Tracker
==
87

Elite 1
3 Stealthsuits
==
90

Elite 2
2 Crisis
Missile Pods
Plasma Rifles
Multi-Trackers
==
124

Elite 3
2 Crisis
Missile Pods
Plasma Rifles
Multi-Trackers
==
124

Troops 1
12 FCW
Shas'ui
Markerlight
Devilfish
Disruption Pod
Multi-Tracker
==
235

Troops 2
12 FCW
Shas'ui
Markerlight
Devilfish
Disruption Pod
Multi-Tracker
==
235

Troops 3
12 FCW
Shas'ui
Markerlight
==
140

Troops 4
12 FCW
Shas'ui
Markerlight
==
140

Fast Attack 1
6 Pathfinders
Devilfish
Disruption Pod
Multi-Tracker
==
167

Heavy Support 1
2 Broadsides
1 Target Lock
1 Drone Controller
2 Shield Drones
==
175

Heavy Support 2
2 Broadsides
1 Target Lock
1 Drone Controller
2 Shield Drones
==
175

Heavy Support 3
Hammerhead
Railgun
Disruption Pod
Multi-Tracker
==
155

TOTAL 1847 points

Breakdown

HQ 87 points 4.7%
Elite 338 points 18.3%
Fast Attack 167 points 9.0%
Troops 750 points 40.5%
Heavy 505 points 27.3%

Three naked stealthsuits aren't really that impressive. The amount of firepower the squad puts out at BS3 is underwhelming, really.

With the changes to the Last Man Standing rule every Tau unit that can have bonding knives should.

Markerlights in the 'fish units seem like a waste. Either that squad is mobile or it isn't.

You might be better served by splitting that 12 man footslogging FW squad into two 6 man squads, both with markerlights.

If you are running a 6 man Pathfinder squad, they shouldn't be flanking. Drop the 'fish from one of the FW squads and have them use the mandatory 'fish that comes with the Pathfinders.

I don't like Broadsides in 5th. One squad might be OK, but two are going to be hard to protect from flankers and deepstrikers. Also it looks to me like you forgot to upgrade one of the suits to a team leader to give you access to shield drones and target lock.

You forgot to buy a secondary weapon system for your Hammerhead. This is not optional.

My suggestions?

Either drop the stealth team and include more crisis suits or give the stealth team markerlight drones.
Ditch one of the broadside teams and use another Hammerhead.
Use the points saved from dropping one devilfish (use the pathfinder's fish) and buy some Kroot. No, they aren't the strongest troops in the game, but they can flank, infiltrate or protect broadsides and they give you more tactical flexibility

I like this list test it and if it works run with it

Keep in mind that my experience with TAU is extremely limited.

I'd suggest switching a unit of Broadsides for a 2nd HH. Chances are the 2nd submunition round will come in very handy.

I'd also consider dropping the MLs off of the FW squads. If you drop those and the fish from your mech squads, you could add another Pathfinder squad, and end up with the same amount of fish and markerlights.

I like the idea of a second Hammer Head. Auto hit with an average deviation of 3"...you've got to miss up those nids and IG one way or the other.

Since I don't have the money to get more suits, I usually split them into either squads of 3 or 1 to avoid the points cost for bonding knives. It has worked ok for me so far.

I was about to suggest making those transports FoF, but will they be as effective in 5th? I love creating situations where my opponent can't return fire, but It doesn't seem like that will be very possible with the way I see terrain get set up.

Marshal_Gus wrote:I like the idea of a second Hammer Head. Auto hit with an average deviation of 3"...you've got to miss up those nids and IG one way or the other.

Since I don't have the money to get more suits, I usually split them into either squads of 3 or 1 to avoid the points cost for bonding knives. It has worked ok for me so far.

I was about to suggest making those transports FoF, but will they be as effective in 5th? I love creating situations where my opponent can't return fire, but It doesn't seem like that will be very possible with the way I see terrain get set up.

eBay is your friend for cheap crisis suites.

I want to actually read the rulebook rather than relying on intrawebz rumor before I comment on FoF, but I suspect it'll be way more situational that it was before and will require more planning to pull off.

newbis wrote:Three naked stealthsuits aren't really that impressive. The amount of firepower the squad puts out at BS3 is underwhelming, really.

With the changes to the Last Man Standing rule every Tau unit that can have bonding knives should.

No three stealth aren't great, but I had 93pts left over and tthey sucked that up. What's the LMS change?

newbis wrote:
You might be better served by splitting that 12 man footslogging FW squad into two 6 man squads, both with markerlights.

I was under the impression big units of Troops were the way forward in V5

newbis wrote:
I don't like Broadsides in 5th. One squad might be OK, but two are going to be hard to protect from flankers and deepstrikers. Also it looks to me like you forgot to upgrade one of the suits to a team leader to give you access to shield drones and target lock.

Part of that & my hammerhead cock-up is a lack of familiarity with the rules there. Must try harder.

newbis wrote:
Ditch one of the broadside teams and use another Hammerhead.

Flagg07 wrote:I'd suggest switching a unit of Broadsides for a 2nd HH. Chances are the 2nd submunition round will come in very handy.

Marshal_Gus wrote:I like the idea of a second Hammer Head. Auto hit with an average deviation of 3"...you've got to miss up those nids and IG one way or the other.

So consensus seems to be adding a second Railgun head and only running one Broadside unit. But I was under the Impressions that vehicles kind of sucked now. Are 'Heads the exception or what?

Squig_herder wrote:I like this list test it and if it works run with it

Thnaks for the non-advice. I hadn't considered just playing the game. I was crippled without such scintillating feedback.

Flagg07 wrote:I'd also consider dropping the MLs off of the FW squads. If you drop those and the fish from your mech squads, you could add another Pathfinder squad, and end up with the same amount of fish and markerlights.

Oooh, sneaky. might try that.

Marshal_Gus wrote:
I was about to suggest making those transports FoF, but will they be as effective in 5th?

FoF? Fleeet of Foot? How does that work wirth vehicles? Do you mean fast?

No three stealth aren't great, but I had 93pts left over and tthey sucked that up. What's the LMS change?

I think you could get 2 deathrain suits for about the same cost and they'd be 10X as effective. The change to Last Man Standing is that there is no more Last Man Standing. As long as a single model from the squad exists and isn't broken it stays.

I was under the impression big units of Troops were the way forward in V5

Large units of Kroot, yes. Large units of FW, no. The point of having larger units is to either soak up damage or provide a meaty counter charge. Tau aren't going to scare anyone with a counter charge. You can reduce damage done to units by stacking one in front of the other, always ensuring a 4+ cover save for at least one unit and, if necessary, throwing away a 6 man squad to incoming assault troops is less painful than chucking a full squad out to get eaten. Six man Tau squads with a markerlight are reasonable screening and harassing troops and if the enemy ignores them, they count as scoring.

I was under the Impressions that vehicles kind of sucked now. Are 'Heads the exception or what?

Hammerheads will still be plenty good. Armor 13 front, with a 4+ save is nothing to sniff at. Plus, if you land em, they provide something LOS blocking to hide suits behind for JSJ.

FoF? Fleeet of Foot? How does that work wirth vehicles? Do you mean fast?

FoF = Fish of Fury. Do a search if you aren't familiar with the tactic.

The benefit of having a few more smaller squads of FW is that you can sacrifice them, but they better all die or run away. With the new no-consolidate into new enemies that works really well. It also gives you more units that can grab objectives, the only drawback beeing worth more KP in case of that.

I would also like 2 HHs more or sniper drones. Markerlights are your friend definently.

Well taking all your feedback into account here's V2 of my Tau List

HQ: Commander Shas'el (1#, 87 Pts)
1 Commander Shas'el @ 87 Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (2#, 124 Pts)
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ 124 Pts
Crisis Battlesuit; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [62] Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (2#, 124 Pts)
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ 124 Pts
Crisis Battlesuit; Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [62] Pts
Missile Pod; Plasma Rifle; Multi-Tracker

Elite: Crisis Battlesuit (6#, 126 Pts)
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ 126 Pts
Crisis Battlesuit; Gun Drone; Twin Linked Missile Pod; Drone Controller
1 Crisis Battlesuit @ [63] Pts
Gun Drone; Twin Linked Missile Pod; Drone Controller
2 Gun Drone @ [20] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines
2 Gun Drone @ [20] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 100 Pts)
10 Fire Warrior @ 100 Pts
Pulse Rifle (x10)

Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 100 Pts)
10 Fire Warrior @ 100 Pts
Pulse Rifle (x10)

Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 100 Pts)
10 Fire Warrior @ 100 Pts
Pulse Rifle (x10)

Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 100 Pts)
10 Fire Warrior @ 100 Pts
Pulse Rifle (x10)

Troops: Fire Warrior (10#, 100 Pts)
10 Fire Warrior @ 100 Pts
Pulse Rifle (x10)

Fast Attack: Pathfinder (11#, 191 Pts)
8 Pathfinder @ 191 Pts
Markerlight (x8); Pulse Carbine (x8)
1 Devilfish @ [95] Pts
Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Marker Beacon; Multi-Tracker
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

Fast Attack: Pathfinder (11#, 191 Pts)
8 Pathfinder @ 191 Pts
Markerlight (x8); Pulse Carbine (x8)
1 Devilfish @ [95] Pts
Burst Cannon; Gun Drones; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Marker Beacon; Multi-Tracker
2 Gun Drones @ [0] Pts
Twin Linked Pulse Carbines

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 165 Pts)
1 Hammerhead Gunship @ 165 Pts
Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Targeting Array

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 165 Pts)
1 Hammerhead Gunship @ 165 Pts
Railgun; Two Burst Cannons; Disruption Pod; Landing Gear; Multi-Tracker; Targeting Array

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (4#, 175 Pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ 175 Pts
Twin linked Railgun; Broadside Battlesuit; Smart Missile System; Target Lock
1 Broadside Battlesuit @ [100] Pts
Twin linked Railgun; Smart Missile System; Shield Drone; Shield Drone; Drone Controller
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator
1 Shield Drone @ [15] Pts
Shield Generator

TOTAL 1848pts

Break Down
Pts %
HQ 87 4.7
Elite 374 20.2
Troops 500 27.0
Fast Attack 382 20.6
Heavy Support 505 27.3


Sorry if it's confusing I'm still playing with AB3's roster outputs.

for all hammer-heads and devilfish's you need to include the disruptor pod, its the best upgrade for the cheapest points and essentially gives your tank, as long as the enemy is not within 12 inches, a 4+ coversave. also if you want to drop the broadsides use the stealth suites to sneak melta weapons into thier artillery trains. also something thats been twiddling in my mind but the tau carbine might be becoming a usefull weapon in tying down squads that have finished of other firewarrior squads and to boot you can keep them much more mobile

strana wrote:for all hammer-heads and devilfish's you need to include the disruptor pod, its the best upgrade for the cheapest points and essentially gives your tank, as long as the enemy is not within 12 inches, a 4+ coversave.

I know, and if you look ever-so-closely (or simply read the revised list) you'll see that all the vehicles do in fact already have the disruption pods...

strana wrote: also if you want to drop the broadsides use the stealth suites to sneak melta weapons into thier artillery trains.

I'd rather have long range Railguns than short-range Fusion blasters on easily killed units, but that's just me.

strana wrote: also something thats been twiddling in my mind but the tau carbine might be becoming a usefull weapon in tying down squads

It might. That's one of the reasons I'm running two Pathfinder squads. The other reason is, of course, Marker Lights.

FOF in reference to Tau is Fish of Fury. Taxi FW in a fish. Park the fish within 1 inch of enemy unit and deploy FW at rear of tank within rapidfire range to smoke a squad. This formation allowed you to avoid assaults because a squad couldn't make it all the way around a fish to assault the FW.

I think FOF will still be viable in 5th.
1) Skimmers don't block LOS in 4th so return fire doesn't change.
2) "Run" adds d6, still not enough to get around and unless you have fleet, you can't assault anyway.
3) Fish grants a cover save

If I'm off, please be so kind as to show me where.

As far as V2, It is very similar to what I'm getting set up.

I'm just trying to figure out how to deal with the swarms/ ork hordes.

I'm going to experiment with a dual TL Mpod/ flamer unit. The intent is to hit transports turns 1/2 and then flame anything that's close. 2 flame templates for the cost of a FW "seems" worth it vs. the orks I know I'll see.

I'm also considering a squad or 2 of Kroot. Mostly for a conversion idea, but they do add some cheap troops to help.

Take a look at the Crisis' gun drones. They're only adding 4 more shots at bs 2. Granted, they're twin linked, but 40 points is pricey.

Do your Broadsides have ASS's?

Besides how many Markerlights you want in your army, I think it's also important to think about how they are broken up. Right now you've got 16 MLs, but they can only be split up among 2 different enemy units.

Your last list featured naked stealth suits. Adding 2 marker drones+ a light to the TL gives you more lights and more targets. A SkyRay helps adding lights/ targets as well as the wonderful missile load.

Don't tell Jervis, but I think you've got too many troops. I'd cut atleast 1 unit of FW. There's so much other candy that would really help your list, while the vanilla FW don't do much to help it.

While troops scoring is something to keep in mind, it's just as important to remember that non-troops can contest.

By no means am I a Tau player, so take my ideas with a grain of salt.

Skimmers block LOS in 5th. Add to that the fact that DFs have HUGE outlines and you're gonna be giving the enemy 4+ cover saves against anything that can actually see past it. FoF = dead.

Damn. That should have been pretty obvious actually. If it blocks fire coming in, it blocks fire going out... Thanks. I'm not so sure that FOF is dead though. It'll take some time to test it, but couldn't the fish park, FW deploy, drones deploy, Fish/FW shoot, drones "run" to provide cover? Granted, it's different from the current incarnation of FOF, but I'm confident there's a valid TTP (tactic, technique, procedure) in there somewhere.

Sorry to derail the thread. Back OT. see my last post

Flagg07 wrote:Take a look at the Crisis' gun drones. They're only adding 4 more shots at bs 2. Granted, they're twin linked, but 40 points is pricey.

Very True. A bit more thought has me stripping the Gun Drones & controllers, and likely replacing them with Blacksun filters (frees me 34 points)

Or, I may replace the Deathrain unit with a 3rd unit of Pathfinders...

Flagg07 wrote:Do your Broadsides have ASS's?

An unfortunate abbreviation, that And they didn't, but I'm stripping the Shield Drones and Target Lock for ASS. (Saves me another 15 points)

Flagg07 wrote:Besides how many Markerlights you want in your army, I think it's also important to think about how they are broken up. Right now you've got 16 MLs, but they can only be split up among 2 different enemy units.

Your last list featured naked stealth suits. Adding 2 marker drones+ a light to the TL gives you more lights and more targets. A SkyRay helps adding lights/ targets as well as the wonderful missile load.

I do worry about my ML distribution. That's one of the reasons I'm considering more Pathfinders. Not sure if goign back to Stealths is ideal here. Still debating whether to used culled points to buy Shas'ui/Marker Light/Target Lock for my Fire Warriors. I like the Sky ray, but I like the Railheads more, and I want Broadsides in my army.

Flagg07 wrote:Don't tell Jervis, but I think you've got too many troops. I'd cut atleast 1 unit of FW. There's so much other candy that would really help your list, while the vanilla FW don't do much to help it.

While troops scoring is something to keep in mind, it's just as important to remember that non-troops can contest.

I know I could do with more 'candy' but I worry that my model coutn is kind of low as is, and want something to score with. Contesting is all well and good but it won't help me win, merely help me not lose.

Flagg07 wrote:By no means am I a Tau player, so take my ideas with a grain of salt.

Disclaimer duly noted.

I'd ditch the gun drones with the deathrains and one squad of fire warriors and add a couple units of kroot (or one big unit). 20 kroot running around behind the lines, as it were, will have to be dealt with, at least forcing your opponent to divide fire or redirect troops.

If you are gonna have that many marker lights you really should have some seeker missiles. More than four troops units is a waste IMO. I'd suggest dropping some troops for piranhas with seekers.

Shield drones should be gone from your broadsides.

If they're not *already* getting a free 4+ save from cover when you start shooting, something is horribly horribly wrong.

RE: fish of fury/Skimmers blocking line of sight - remember, everything in 5th edition is true line of sight. Skimmers block line of sight...if you can't see under or over them. Play around with positioning your firewarriors and the tanks and you'll see what I mean.

As for the list - I think it is ok, but I personally wouldn't run 50 firewarriors. I don't agree that large squads of troops is the way to go. Every one of those squads that gets caught in combat by pretty much anything is going to die. So one idea is to have the squads smaller and make sure you have 6 troops of some kind to hold objectives. Keeping smaller squads alive isn't the end of the world - at the worst you can choose to go to ground and make people try to kill you with a 3+ cover save. I'd personally replace two of the firewarrior squads with Kroot - they're going to get the same cover saves positioned correctly, have very comparable shooting to firewarriors (counted in points per wound) can have way larger squads if you think squad size is important (hello 20 kroot and 10 hounds!) and can infiltrate/flank (handy for trying to capture points).

Well, I think I'm convinced by everyone here. I'm going to swap at least one of the Fire Warrior Squads for Kroot, and possibly 2. I just never liked the kroot models/fluff that much.

Don't forget that in 5th, your pathfinder's devilfish is free to ferry around another Firewarrior unit. Something to keep in mind.

I find the Kroot models a good contrast to the sleek and clean look of the Tau models, but to each his own .

Golden rule for Kroot is that they belong in cover with a 4+ save and I10 for close combat. While 60 attacks on the charge seem tempting, especially for Tau, keep in mind that they are I3 and S3, in cover, they'll at least get to swing before being killed.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:Well, I think I'm convinced by everyone here. I'm going to swap at least one of the Fire Warrior Squads for Kroot, and possibly 2. I just never liked the kroot models/fluff that much.

I don't like em much either, but they are too good to ignore in 5th.

it looks like you know wat you are doin, but on my last tau army which i sold to cheap and want it bak lol on your commander aka HQ consider having consider habveing one or more if you wish of these, aridium armour, Cyclic ion blaster espesilly that one cause 5 shots is better than one, an airbusrting fragmentation launcher or stimulant injector id would say you should have your:

shas'el=50
cyclic ion blaster=15
plasma rifle=20
malty-tracker=5
iridium armour 20

=110

this is wati had on my commander and it really did pay off have him along with two other crisis battlesuit budies in a squad and you'll be laughing at the oponent when he tryis to hit you with his fire power

BloodDeathAssault wrote:
it looks like you know wat you are doin, but on my last tau army which i sold to cheap and want it bak lol on your commander aka HQ consider having consider habveing one or more if you wish of these, aridium armour, Cyclic ion blaster espesilly that one cause 5 shots is better than one, an airbusrting fragmentation launcher or stimulant injector id would say you should have your:

I'm going to go ahead and assume the English isn't your native tongue, as it took quite a while for em to decode that. Anyway, a couple of quick points:

While the Cyclic Ion blaster is lots of shots, it's also much shorter range than the Missile Pod and I'd rather keep things at arms length for JSJ purposes.

As to the Iridium armour, while a boosted save is cool, the reduction in mobility is again painful from a JSJ point of view. If I wanted more armour I'd look into Shield Drones or Shield Generators.

I'm not a huge fan of the Cyclic Ion Blaster. An S3 weapon just doesn't have a lot of uses in the Tau army.

And you're correct with not going with Iridium Armour. Limits mobility too much.

i see what you mean but i fined that battle suits are very useful on the frontline with a bunch of kroot nearby, it alows you to blow the hell outta the squad that youyr kroot are going for so it makes it easier for them.

Yeah it might make it easier for the Kroot, but I'd rether have my suits mobile and surviveable rather than stuck out to be shot at.

i know what ya saying, that you dont wants your suits getting blown to heck on the frontline, but even though tau are made for longrange killin you shouldntbe afraid to try stuff like putting a bunch of kroot with some suits, and even though they are really weak, put in a few piranahs...i dont know how to spell that and some vespids, show your enemy what you are there for, and if you have a half desent loty of fire power behind you, your men shouldnt be sloughtered to all hell.

Well, I'm sure you're looking forward to it, so here it is

TAU 1850 LIST - ITERATION 3

HQ 1
Shas'o
Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle
Multi-Tracker
87

ELITE 1
3 Crisis
1 Team Leader Upgrade
Missile Pods
Plasma Rifles
Multi-Trackers
Bonding Knife
196

ELITE 2
3 Crisis
1 Team Leader Upgrade
Missile Pods
Plasma Rifles
Multi-Trackers
Bonding Knife
196

TROOPS 1
10 Fire Warriors
100

TROOPS 2
10 Fire Warriors
100

TROOPS 3
15 Kroot
105

TROOPS 4
15 Kroot
105

FAST ATTACK 1
8 Pathfinders
Devilfish
Disruption Pod
2 Seeker Missiles
Multi-Tracker
211

FAST ATTACK 2
8 Pathfinders
Devilfish
Disruption Pod
2 Seeker Missiles
Multi-Tracker
211

HEAVY SUPPORT 1
Hammerhead
Railgun
2 Burst Cannons
2 Seeker Missiles
Disruption Pod
Multi-Tracker
185

HEAVY SUPPORT 2
Hammerhead
Railgun
2 Burst Cannons
2 Seeker Missiles
Disruption Pod
Multi-Tracker
185

HEAVY SUPPORT 2
2 Broadsides
2 Advanced Stabilisation Systems
160

TOTAL 1841 POINTS

Thoughts, criticisms, questions about my parenatgae etc?