Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In 5th ed all of our models MUST be mounted on the base it came with. This includes skimmers as they must now be on their stands at all times. as we know there are 2 heights to flying stands. And on the tall stand the fskimmer higher than just about all trooper models. And even on the shorter stand warriors can no longer see yet believe it or not they can be seen. So contrary to popular belief skimmers won't block much LOS in 5th ed. Don't believe me? Why not test it for yourself.

I don't think the angles are going to work the way you think they will. I don't recall the short skimmer base being that tall to begin with, and the skimmer is so wide that as long as there's a slight angle, I don't think you'll be getting much LOS.

Keep in mind all you need to see is a foot etc... And how many vehicle flying heights are there? All i know of are the 4cm and 5cm heights. In which i have already tested with firewarriors and devilfish as well as a space marine. The 4cm blocks the ability of any model near it to see if they are withing 7" of the devilfish. however they can still be SEEN aka shot at. The 5cm does not have this problem and didn't block shots in my test experiment.

There are four flight stand heights.

This doesn't include people who appreciate their models to make their own flight stands at whatever height they would like to have them in.

Skimmers don't block LOS? No problem, instead of trying to have them block LOS, you may as well put them on flight stands that are 12" high so you get LOS to everything.

If they fly fast, its not like you will be able to get them coversaves anyways...

True LOS is going to be is going to cause more arguements than it's worth. Not liking it.

The RAW just says they have to be mounted on the bases they are provided with, not using any particular "Flight Rod" height, nor does it specify whether the rod is an integral part of the base. I foresee many, many players simply hacking off the rod and gluing the base to the bottom of their model. It's just skimming really low.

So I can cheese up my Wraithlord by making him kneel, but I can't fiddle with my Wave Serpent?

Sphericals.

People are really reading way too much into this. Here's the only references to skimmers and bases in the book.

BASES (page 3)

"Citadel miniatures are normally supplied with a plastic base. If so, they must be glued onto their bases before they can be used in the game. Some players like to mount their models on impressive scenic bases. As mounting our models on different sized bases might affect the way they interact with the rules, make sure before the game that your opponent does not mind this."

MEASURING DISTANCES (page 71, subsection of skimmers)

"Unlike other vehicles, skimmers have transparent ‘flying bases’ under their hull. As normal for vehicles, distances are measured to and from the skimmer’s hull, with the exceptions of the vehicle’s weapons, access points and
fire points, which all work as normal. The skimmer’s base is effectively ignored, except when assaulting a skimmer, in which case models may move into contact with the vehicle’s hull, its base or both."

and finally...

SHOOTING AT SKIMMERS (same page, partial excerpt)

"If a skimmer is immobilized or wrecked, its base is removed, if possible. If this is not possible (the base might have been glued in place, for example), don’t worry about it. The skimmer’s anti-grav field is obviously still working and an immobilized skimmer will simply remain hovering in place, incapable of any further movement (including turning on the spot); a wrecked one is now a floating, burning wreck. Note that it is not permitted to remove the flying stand other than in the two cases above, as normally skimmers cannot land in battle conditions."


So, can you have a fire prism "modeled" to be 45" tall to abuse it's range? Sure. Is it likely to make people want to play against you or punch you in the face. Probably the punch. If you do what I do to avoid snapping off the little plastic bit at the top of the flying base and just ream out the hole a little larger then I doubt anyone will even notice, let alone care.

Does this thread even qualify as News and/or Rumors?

This goes to YMDC. Time...Now.

zmc wrote:The RAW just says they have to be mounted on the bases they are provided with, not using any particular "Flight Rod" height, nor does it specify whether the rod is an integral part of the base. I foresee many, many players simply hacking off the rod and gluing the base to the bottom of their model. It's just skimming really low.

It depends what you class as the base. Some people might say it was the flat disc that goes on the ground, others might say it is the disc and the plastic rod.

This is one of those rules doomed to failure since many models are supplied with bases that are too small (Tau Stealth Suits) or too flimsy (Tau Hammerheads) or can jump but don't have flight bases (Tau Crisis Suits) or are on bases that allow the position of the model to be moved to obscure or allow LoS (Tau Piranha.) A lot of players will simply ignore it.

The problem with thinking the rod is part of the base is that most flying models (especially the Eldar model range) are supplied with 4 different sizes of the rod. Which one is standard?

I agree, utterly doomed to failure as a rule.

I believe GW just wants to avoid radical crap like skimmers scraping the table or 12" off the surface. If the skimmer is mounted anywhere from the shortest rod to longest off the table, I'm cool with that. Modeling for advantage isn't too difficult to spot, and typically the only players that will argue something ridiculous aren't very good players anyway.

I'd love to put the Devilfish on taller flight posts that would allow Fire Warriors to easily see their targets under `em. Then model the hatches to open up and show off repel lines and hookups.

Fish Of Fury Lives!

What about Tau skimmers that have landing feet to allow them to land. How is that dealt with?

If they declare to land they will be taken off their skimmer bases... via tau codex. That 1 is cut and dry.

Red_Lives wrote:If they declare to land they will be taken off their skimmer bases... via tau codex. That 1 is cut and dry.

No it isnt, unless you have some other codex then me. There is nothing written on how you change base or anything on them and if it isnt written it isnt there.

The damn things break so easily this is doomed.

Go out and buy some 1/16" steel or brass rod. Bend it 90 degrees and glue it into a base with super glue or epoxy, with a length of rod sticking up from the center of the base. Add a plug of material inside the model and drill it out to fit the rod, alternatively you can use some brass tube, capped at one end. Cut the rod to the appropriate length to match the flying bases.

I've done this with land speeders, devilfish and hammerheads, falcons and wave serpents. The only models I have to retrofit are my monoliths, as I usually placed them right on the table. It's fairly simple and I never have to worry about anything except my models spinning very occasionally. It's handy for transport, removes easily when the vehicle is destroyed or immobilized, and they never tip or break off.

If you rebuild your base, how can that be the base it is supplied with?

You can choose the rods from what you get when you buy it, but it must come from that. You arent allowed to build your own base in the 5e rules.

Sure you are, with opponent's permission, and I doubt anyone would complain that you replaced the rod on the base with something of similar length but more durable construction.

Yeah, the day I get kicked out of a tournament for having a base the same height, made of different materials, is the day I post my stuff on ebay. Really, this issue is making a mountain out of a molehill.

"My model didn't come with a base" [we all know sometimes models are missing parts].

Done deal. Build one that's very similar - there, you did the best you could.

Seriously, nobody SHOULD care about this and don't play anyone who does.

Kallbrand wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:If they declare to land they will be taken off their skimmer bases... via tau codex. That 1 is cut and dry.

No it isnt, unless you have some other codex then me. There is nothing written on how you change base or anything on them and if it isnt written it isnt there.

Sure it is... p. 30 tau codex Landing gear- ...In any turn that the vehicle does not move, it may choose to no longer count as a skimmer until it moves again.

So if you declare a land the vehicle is NO LONGER a skimmer, therefor it is NOT ALLOWED to have a flying skimmer base under it. Therefor you MUST remove it when you land. Like i said cut and dry.

Red_Lives wrote:So if you declare a land the vehicle is NO LONGER a skimmer, therefor it is NOT ALLOWED to have a flying skimmer base under it. Therefor you MUST remove it when you land. Like i said cut and dry.

Cut and dried when you show us the rule that says a vehicle that's not a skimmer is not allowed to have a flying base under it.

I had a fairly involved discussion about this down at GW today. I was trying to champion the logic that in certain circumstances it would be relatively easy for a unit to draw LOS underneath a skimmer to the feet of a unit standing behind said skimmer. Pretty much everyone in the store disagreed with me and decree that skimmers block LOS just like other vehicles.

Even after multiple set-up situations and angles (which clearly demonstrated my point) no one swung over to my line of thinking.

There are some units out there that are modelled quite low and would easily be able to draw LOS under skimmers (and other vehicles to btw). Termagaunts, snipers and pathfinders come to mind.

One of the biggest sore points is the Necron Monolith. Most Necron players I know just plunk the Monolith down on the table with no base. How do you game this in 5th? Do you demand that these players put the Monolith on a base? If not the Monolith presents a pretty solid wall for troops to hide behind.

holden88 wrote:Pretty much everyone in the store disagreed with me and decree that skimmers block LOS just like other vehicles.

If they block LOS like every other vehicle, then you would be able to draw a LOS under them.

It's only the actual model that blocks LOS, not the space around it. Drawing LOS under it is every bit as valid as drawing a LOS over it.

One of the biggest sore points is the Necron Monolith. Most Necron players I know just plunk the Monolith down on the table with no base. How do you game this in 5th? Do you demand that these players put the Monolith on a base? If not the Monolith presents a pretty solid wall for troops to hide behind.

The few monoliths I've seen based have been on the lowest flight peg. You would need a pretty specific set-up to see underneath it to models on the other side, and frankly, I can't see it happening too often.

Ghaz wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:So if you declare a land the vehicle is NO LONGER a skimmer, therefor it is NOT ALLOWED to have a flying skimmer base under it. Therefor you MUST remove it when you land. Like i said cut and dry.

Cut and dried when you show us the rule that says a vehicle that's not a skimmer is not allowed to have a flying base under it.

So you are saying that you thing its valid to have a land raider on a skimmer base even thought its not a skimmer? Because thats the logic you are suggesting.

No, he's saying that you would only remove the flight base that's already on the vehicle if there is a rule that says to remove the flight base when it stops being a skimmer.

It would only be 'valid' to put a land raider on a flight base if that was the base supplied for the land raider.

How about the orientation of the model on the base?

Lower the front of the model ever so slightly and it blocks more LOS.

The base supplied by GW is glued on. Who could object?



PS. Not saying I would do it, because none of the guys I play with would be petty enough to actually make it a problem.