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I was watching an Apoc game the other night and it suddenly came to me "Those DP bases are too big" I said to one of my friends. He said they are the normal MC bases. Then I compared them to one of my DPs. It was the base that both my DPs came with but it is small instad of the largest base. It's the termie base size that my DPs are mounted on.

I know in 5th I'm supposed to put the bases that my dudes came with on them. But how big a stretch would it be to give a MC a MC sized base?

Pretty much the same as the other thread about bases, the rule is that you must use what comes with your miniature.

...Unless your opponent is ok with a larger base. I doubt anyone would have a problem with it; if anything, it's a disadvantage to you (more models can be engaged with it).

So then my old school imperial terminators on small bases are perfectly legal?

Rock on! I really didn't want to have to re-base them.

Yes Spellbound-perfectly legal in Games.

Kallbrand wrote:Pretty much the same as the other thread about bases, the rule is that you must use what comes with your miniature.

So if I'm using VC Spirit Host models as my demons, I have to individually put each one on a large square base?

Your VC spirit hosts arent demons, whats your point? If you make conversions/scrap builds or whatever use the same base as a real demon would come supplied with and noone should have to much complaints.

I'm just pointing out the silliness I see in the rule that models must be on the bases they come with. Going strictly by that rule, I would have to base single spirit host models on a large square base, as that is the base they come with. The rules don't say put them on bases that the model "counts as", in this case, spirit hosts counting as demons.

Really, though, I think people are just stressing out over this "rule" for nothing. I mean, if my demon princes have been on larger bases for the past 6 years and now there is a "rule" that says they need to be on the bases they come with, I'm not going to suddenly change all the bases on my Demon Princes, or any other models that might be on bases other than the ones they came with. People who are looking for things like making sure models are on the bases they came with are far too anal, and really have lost their grasp of the "spirit" of the rules.

Who cares what base a spirit host comes with? If your opponent doesnt even wanna let you use "count as" there isnt anything in the rules letting you do that even.

And no, using larger bases shouldnt be ok during competative play. Pretty much as the guy with screening carnifexes in the other thread. Wonder who is anal or abusing the "spirit" of the game there? But in friendly games there is nothing to stop you from removing rules you dont wanna play with, as usuall.

I always thought that it was ok to mount models on larger bases but never on smaller ones.

Besides, in 5th, with true LOS it shouldn't matter how large or small your base is unless you put all kinds of trees or rocks or what have you on the base in a deliberate attempt to block LOS.

My DP is mounted on a larger base because the standard is just too small if you want to do anything fun at all with the base.

I guess the main reason is that people made very big bases (like the carnifex in the other thread) and uses them to generate cover and prevent assulting around them to other stuff.

Kallbrand wrote:I guess the main reason is that people made very big bases (like the carnifex in the other thread) and uses them to generate cover and prevent assulting around them to other stuff.

Which thread are you referring to?

So... as it turns out skimmers WON'T block much Los in 5th ed. Page 2.

Yeah....that is just ridiculous.

My fully painted Demon Prince is mounted on a larger (2 1/2 inch) base. I can't see myslef ripping him off and mounting him on the smaller base now. The smaller base that came with the model looks way to small (his feet hang off either side quite a bit).

I don't think I'll have a problem using him though, and if someone absolutely insists on a smaller base, then it isn't to hard to simulate that he is on a smaller base during play.

As was mentioned above, it's less important in 5th than it was in 4th. The only time it really matters is for blast weapons (he'll get hit more often as his base is bigger), hand to hand combat (more enemy units can get into base to base contact with him) and a few other special cases.

Kymera wrote:Besides, in 5th, with true LOS it shouldn't matter how large or small your base is unless you put all kinds of trees or rocks or what have you on the base in a deliberate attempt to block LOS.

The base is a part of the model. Putting trees or rocks on the base won't give the model cover any more than modelling him with his hand over his face would.


Changing the base size and/or shape does have a certain impact on the game. (blast weapons, assaults, measurement, movement direction changes) but in most cases it's not huge.

Frankly, no matter what the rulebook says, I can't see the majority of players suddenly having a problem with models on different bases to those with which they are supplied. The times when it actually causes a serious problem are limited.

I guess I have to re-base my metal termies that I put on 40mm bases to make them legal...

Oh wait, I'm not playing 40k any more...

insaniak wrote:

Kymera wrote:Besides, in 5th, with true LOS it shouldn't matter how large or small your base is unless you put all kinds of trees or rocks or what have you on the base in a deliberate attempt to block LOS.

The base is a part of the model. Putting trees or rocks on the base won't give the model cover any more than modelling him with his hand over his face would.

True, but putting all kinds of rocks and other obstructions will more readily provide units behind that model a cover save.

Here's a pic of my Deamon Prince.

He is on a slightly larger base with some small ruined walls to make it look cool. Suddenly in 5th this model is not quite based 100% legally. I could see some people having a small problem with this unit in a competative game. I'll probably try to avoid using him in tourney's. I think he'll be fine in casual games though.

One of my regular opponents has a DP that have a mounted set of Fantasy Dragon Wings. The DP's base is 1.5" across, but the wingspan of this thing is closer to 7". It's also more than 4" tall.

Our games are usually friendly matches, but it really pisses me off when he blocks LOS to an entire friggin' squad or obscures a Land Raider with the wings, but then says he's out of range when his wings are in range but his base is not.

Personally, if the "True LOS" rule is to be rightfully honored, then models should not greatly over-reach the edge of their supplied bases. If they do, then the owner of the model should upsize the base to compensate. I don't think it is unreasonable to request this.

Of course, what he's doing is perfectly legal, it just is a really gakky move to pull in games that are supposed to be friendly.

CK

Corpsman_of_Krieg wrote:Personally, if the "True LOS" rule is to be rightfully honored, then models should not greatly over-reach the edge of their supplied bases.

The problem being, of course, that many models do this straight out of the box.

Around here, we tend to play with the philosophy that 'If you can't shoot it, it doesn't block LOS'

Solves all sorts of issues stemming from models with large sticky-outie bits.

I beleive the rules (5th) state that capes, guns, swords and other sticky outy bits don't count as legal targets. You have to draw LOS to the models main body (head, arms, torso, legs). Now I'm not sure if wings count as the main body. I would tend to think so. I'm also not sure if these sticky outy bits block LOS. I mean they physically do block LOS but can you ignore them for game purposes of tracing LOS?

Here are some other models of mine that would be difficult to remodel to make the model fit entirely with-in the area of the base. Note that these guys weren't crafted with the purpose of gaining any sort of advantage. I merely wanted to make cool looking models.

This is the part not covered. Sure, bases and all that is a "nice" fix but it doesnt really cover all those other things. What if you mount a 24" sail on your battlewagons that goes all to the ground and will let your whole orc army run behind? Pretty much as those wings or anything else that you can creativly model.

Kallbrand wrote:This is the part not covered. Sure, bases and all that is a "nice" fix but it doesnt really cover all those other things. What if you mount a 24" sail on your battlewagons that goes all to the ground and will let your whole orc army run behind? Pretty much as those wings or anything else that you can creativly model.

Answer: Everyone looks at your big 24" sail, listens to your explanation, no one feels like playing with you, and your laughed out of the store. There's no rule that says you have to play cheesey gitz.

And when you are at a tourney or FLAGS that plays by the real rules hardball you are farked. Its not always that you choose your oppoenents.

If we play friendly games or in some store with own made up rules that might happen. But in them there might be special rules for all kinds of situations that gives certain ppls advatages over others.

And any store or tournament that is going to require me to destroy models that I've had built prior to 5th edition's stupidity is a store or tournament that's going to lose my business.

Kallbrand wrote:And when you are at a tourney or FLAGS that plays by the real rules hardball you are farked.

Just like you would have been for in the same situation for 20 years now.

How often has it happened to you?

Redbeard wrote:And any store or tournament that is going to require me to destroy models that I've had built prior to 5th edition's stupidity is a store or tournament that's going to lose my business.

So stores should allow you to continue to use models that are no longer legal for how long, exactly?

Just curious. There's some autocannon-toting scouts who might be interested in the answer...