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Just wondering as this is something I've been taking as a "given" that is legit to do, but the more I think about it the more I think this can be a contentious issue for 40k.

If you're playing Orks and have a horde, then movement trays by GF9 or some other company are attractive. Given that at least GF9 will cut you any kind of movement tray you want, which can include one to hold 30 Boyz all spaced 2" or so apart - exactly how legal do you see their use being at a GT?

I didn't think it'd be much of an issue at first, but the more I thought about it, especially if you have one where the holes are 1.9" - 2" spaced apart to minimize blast damage, I can see people being upset at the use of this kind of gaming aid.

On top of that I'm sure there are people who would eventually show disdain on the whole thing, especially if horde armies become powerful and the use of a movement tray will alleviate the problem of "finishing your games on time" it takes away from one of the downsides of a horde (admittedly outside the scope of a 6 turn game).

So I figure a thread to gauge opinion on the legality of movement trays in 40k would be fairly useful.

Thoughts?

I always felt the amount of terrain (and the way that units are encouraged to move into them for cover saves and such) in 40k made movement bases less applicable, particularly for BIG squads like your orks. Funnily enough with screening cover saves I suppose a huge ork horde - with KFFs in addition - wouldn't even need terrain to get their dakka on

Legality-wise I have no idea. I think the 2" set formation would bother me no less than playing against people who either use a tape measure to ensure 2" spread or are simply THAT good at judging spacing and spread everything out without other aids.

But like I first said, I wonder at the usefulness of trays in 40k.

- Salvage

Playing you...I would appreciate the effort to speed things up.

I would think having trays that hold five guys in a row spaced 1.9 inches apart would be flexable enough to deal with terrain.

I would not have a problem with this since if you are following the rules, you must measure to make sure you are within the 2" distance. No one could complain that you were cheating my measuring.

I can't imagine anyone having a legitimate grip about this, because there are no rules saying that you are limited to the MK I eyeball for judging coherency spacing, especially with the drawbacks involved to having your boys on a movement tray. You're not going to always want them spaced out the full 2", if you're ever in a situation where you want them to hug cover, or otherwise reshape the squad.

Well I see that as the game goes on, I'd have to leave the movement tray.

But just for deployment time saving, and the first 1-3 turns of movement (when I have the most models to be concerned about), that it would be a godsend.

If I have to go through terrain that's a building or something, then yes they have to come off the tray, but every last bit helps, a lot. The Trays help a ton over area terrain pieces though.

Still I figure people would get upset since I'm quickly moving a horde across the table (mitigating time issue of a horde army), and at the same time I know that I'm always at max coherency without having to worry about measuring it all the time.

I think that last bit is going to be the stickler, especially since templates are the answer to hordes now - with the ability to always be at max coherency and not paying the time penalty incurred for it (and not having to worry about looking like a douche for measuring it constantly, while still getting all the assurance as if I'd done so) is something that would make someone mad eventually.

I personally wouldn't mind as long you as were careful to avoid moving any model more than 6 inches. In particular, I am thinking about turning the tray. If you need to pivot, that will be a significant movement for the models on the outer edge, so the models close to the pivot will not get to make a full move.

Of course, when you get up close and personal, you can always leave the tray behind and move the models up individually. That would let you advance your mob across the board in good time, while allowing some flexibility when you need it. [edit - you said this in your last post, but I hadn't seen it yet!]

The fact that you're keeping your models 2" apart doesn't seem like cheating to me. You could do the same thing with a tape measure, it would just take a great deal more time. I, for one, would appreciate the speed-up.

I hate not finishing a game in tourneys. I hate stalling, and time suckage.

I see n/p with movement trays.

Use the Trays.

Or a Croupier's stick.

The slow figure-by-figure bit with a horde is annoying.

How exactly do you find using movement trays that are specified to give you 2" dispersion "legal"? Or for that matter any movement trays. This would probably fall under the catogory of "if it isnt in the rules it isnt legal".

I don't see how the tray is any different from any other measuring device. It's legal to use a measuring tape to get a 2" spacing between models. The tray is doing exactly the same thing, only faster.

While I would question the legality (or propriety, at least) of using one in a tourney, I wouldn't have a problem with it in a game with ONE provision; If ANY part of that tray is going to touch terrain, you have to stop using it and move the boys manually and individually.


Re: legality...
I don't know about 5e, but doesn't the 4e rule book state that you have to complete your movement with ONE mini before moving on to the next? In that case, this WOULD be violating the RAW (though not necessarily the RAI, IMO).


Eric

At the very least movement trays would get you deployed much quicker. After that I think it is at the opponents discression.

I think the time saved alone would be worth having a basic tray. Maybe not a cutom job by GF9 though. I had thought about putting together some flat movement trays made out of that magnetic flexy stuff or use that magnetic paint or what not. Would probably make it easier to use as a movment tray in 40k as well, if opponent was ok with it.

I don't see a rules issue with the spacing either. You must be within 2" during movement and deployment and you are allowed to measure it (rules call for you to end movement and deployment in coherency, so you can measure). All you've gained is just time in having them pre spaced. Otherwise you'd be using a gf9 measure tool anyways, right?

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Just wondering as this is something I've been taking as a "given" that is legit to do, but the more I think about it the more I think this can be a contentious issue for 40k.

If you're playing Orks and have a horde, then movement trays by GF9 or some other company are attractive. Given that at least GF9 will cut you any kind of movement tray you want, which can include one to hold 30 Boyz all spaced 2" or so apart - exactly how legal do you see their use being at a GT?

I didn't think it'd be much of an issue at first, but the more I thought about it, especially if you have one where the holes are 1.9" - 2" spaced apart to minimize blast damage, I can see people being upset at the use of this kind of gaming aid.

On top of that I'm sure there are people who would eventually show disdain on the whole thing, especially if horde armies become powerful and the use of a movement tray will alleviate the problem of "finishing your games on time" it takes away from one of the downsides of a horde (admittedly outside the scope of a 6 turn game).

So I figure a thread to gauge opinion on the legality of movement trays in 40k would be fairly useful.

Thoughts?

The "penalty" of playing horde armies is one suffered by your opponent - they don't get to complete a game within a (tournament) time limit. If you're going to bring a huge ork horde, PLEASE bring movment trays. Try and get them cut as close to the base hole as possible (or use magnets & metal-lined trays), and you can avoid most complaints.

Janthkin wrote:

The "penalty" of playing horde armies is one suffered by your opponent - they don't get to complete a game within a (tournament) time limit. If you're going to bring a huge ork horde, PLEASE bring movment trays. Try and get them cut as close to the base hole as possible (or use magnets & metal-lined trays), and you can avoid most complaints.

You couldn't have said it better.

I was playing an RTT against an ork horde player, that thought about every move like he was Field Marshall Montgomery, and carefull measured his gaps, while being confused about the rules since all he had was his printed PDF version of the Ork codex. We got through three turns. I wanted to throttle him.

I whod prefer it whode be more fun at lest getting your 6 turns

I see no legality or sportsmanship issue with movement trays. In fact I think you could argue sportsmanship with the Tyranid or Ork player who does not use some sort of mass moving system. I played 2 ork players in my last tournament. In one, it was everything we could do to finish, and the other only made it to turn 3.

It is like anything else, you can't abuse it.

Voodoo Boyz wrote:Still I figure people would get upset since I'm quickly moving a horde across the table (mitigating time issue of a horde army), and at the same time I know that I'm always at max coherency without having to worry about measuring it all the time.

I think that last bit is going to be the stickler, especially since templates are the answer to hordes now - with the ability to always be at max coherency and not paying the time penalty incurred for it (and not having to worry about looking like a douche for measuring it constantly, while still getting all the assurance as if I'd done so) is something that would make someone mad eventually.

I can't see how anyone could legitimately complain about it under the guise of "He's not taking a long time to move his army!". That's just silly.

As for staying at max coherency, you can measure that in the movement phase anyway so what's the big deal. I got one of the cool GF9 blue triangles where one side is 6" (for movement) and the other is 2 (for quick coherency checks) and its perfectly legal to measure coherency with your tape measure even if you don't have some special tool for the job. All a tray does is save time and actually allow for a full game to be played. Hardly something anyone could complain about.

MagickalMemories wrote:Re: legality...
I don't know about 5e, but doesn't the 4e rule book state that you have to complete your movement with ONE mini before moving on to the next? In that case, this WOULD be violating the RAW (though not necessarily the RAI, IMO).

It's one unit at a time, not one model at a time. So the tray thing shouldn't be a problem.

I like the magnetic sheet idea. magnetize all the boyz and have circles marked on the sheet for max coherency. place them out during the beginning of the game. if you have to turn or shift the mob around you could always slide them around on the tray and keep them roughly in formation for the following moves.

also would let you pile into combat and such by just letting the opponent move onto the tray or sliding it under their models or something

might be awkward at first.. but once your group gets used to it I bet it will speed games up tremendously

NaZ