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So I've been skimming through the rules trying to update the INAT FAQ and when I got to the section on Reserves I made a startling (to me) discovery. I don't think I've seen anyone else discussing it so I thought I'd bring it up and see what you all think (if I've missed something obvious, for example).

Page 92 of the rules says:

"MULTIPLE UNIT CHOICES
Note that occasionally the Codexes allow the player to include several units in his army at the cost of a single force organization slot (like dedicated transports, etc). Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as separate units in all respects."


Then when you get to the Reserves rules on page 94, you notice that all the rules are written from the standpoint of just "units", such as:

"When deploying their army, players may choose not to deploy one or more of the units in their army and instead leave them in reserve."

and:

"Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry and/or independent characters in reserve. If they do, the unit and the transport will be rolled for together and will arrive together."


When you put this all together it means that you now make separate reserve rolls for each and every unit in your army, not per force organization choice. So a player will roll for each IG squad separately in a platoon (and can conversely deploy only some of the units from a platoon while leaving others in reserve).

And if you have a unit and its dedicated transport vehicle in reserve but you decide to not have the unit arrive in the transport you'd even make separate reserve rolls for both the unit and the transport.


I found this (apparent) change interesting. It does indeed remove several questions from my FAQ, which is always a good thing IMHO!

The guard codex says platoons are rolled for collectively for reserves

Seconded. The roll is made for the Platoon as a whole, not the individual squads. In this case, the unit is the platoon.

Pg. 44 of Codex IG (in the Inf Plat section):

Each Platoon counts as a single Troops choice on the Force Organization chart when deploying, and is rolled for collectively when rolling for reserves. Otherwise they function as independant units

I can see where the confusion can come in, as they refer to the individual squads as units, but a one-line FAQ can take care of that.

So does the new rulebook trump the codex, or vice versa? If the former, then IG are screwed; no fun being away from the command squad.

IG platoons aside, does this mean I could deploy a squad (any army) but leave their transport in reserve?

I think it does.

Darrien13 also pointed out in another thread in Dawn of War that when you deploy two units of troops, a dedicated transport counts as one choice while the infantry squad counts as the second choice (p 93). GW writing actually appears specific and deliberate when they use the term 'unit'.

I concur with the everyone's findings. I think this is why GW explains we must be specific in explaining what is being left in reserve and how it is supposed to enter the table (IE: IC with unit inside dedicated transport equates one die roll).

I don't know that you can put too much stock in that codex rule (I know; I know ...) but the codex was written for THIRD edition.

Deployment is now done very differently and the new core rules are quite specific about how different elements of one FOC are rolled for seperatley when they come out of reserves.

Good catch guys, I didn't have my IG codex on me when I wrote the original post.

But even if that IG specific rule stands, the new reserve rules definitely allow you to keep specific units within a platoon in reserve while deploying the rest on the table.


And for all other armies that have multi-unit Force Org choices you definitely should be rolling for each unit separately now.

Does that mean I could buy a drop pod for a tac squad and deploy the tac squad but have the drop pod deep strike on later?

Light infantry doctrine with IG will be a brutal sight indeed.

That's a good point Yak, I think you're reading it correctly.

Brave, I think that that drop-pod tactic could actually be Quite Good. Deploy your marines as normal, and then drop the pods onto objective to contest them. Either the enemy needs to shoot them for a turn, thus sparing your advancing forces, or they contest the objective.

The Dark Angels FAQ specifically mentions the Drop Pod issue. The answer is "yes". You can have a drop pod enter the board empty while the squad walks in separately from the board edge.

Hmmmness.now I'm going to have to check the Nids codex when I get home. Thorps and Lictors fill one slot, but move independantly. I don't know if this is good or bad. In a DoW scenario, you could have the Zoanthorps coming on one at a time. This can really mess up your instinctive behavior checks.

Lets see...Tomb spiders work the same way, but no one uses them.

Yep, I'd noticed that but hadn't thought too much of it. Except for the fact that I can now beat someone over the head with the rulebook when they tell me I can't leave my IG Plt Cmd in Reserve and deploy the rest of the paltoon.

Also, take a look at the Dawn of War deployment. Note that it states the dedicated transport for the unit being deployed counts as the second Troop unit. SO in DoW, IG would be limited to one unit from their HQ platoon, and two units (squad or transport) from their overall Troop selections.

But unless an FAQ changes it, IG would make a Reserve roll for all elements of a single force org chart with a single die due to codex.

@njfed, In DoW scenario, you can bring any unit not initially deployed onto the table at the beginning of your turn 1, so Zoeys will all be on the tables on your turn 1. Unless you WANT to keep them in reserve for some reason.

Darrian13 wrote:@njfed, In DoW scenario, you can bring any unit not initially deployed onto the table at the beginning of your turn 1, so Zoeys will all be on the tables on your turn 1. Unless you WANT to keep them in reserve for some reason.

Of course, the new requirement to have reserves come in on the long table edges will make it a bit harder for them to catch up with anything in the army that starts, potentially, all the way up to the center point of the table.

So let me get this straght.
If i have two marine squads with rhinos in dawn of war my options are
1) deploy the squads inside the rhinos on the table
2) deploy one squad next to a rhino (doesn't need to even be the squad's rhino)
3) deploy both squads
4) deploy both rhinos...

Thats interesting.

don_mondo wrote:

Also, take a look at the Dawn of War deployment. Note that it states the dedicated transport for the unit being deployed counts as the second Troop unit. SO in DoW, IG would be limited to one unit from their HQ platoon, and two units (squad or transport) from their overall Troop selections.

My question now is, with a fully mechanized army in DoW, would I have to have my celestians start w/out thier rhino, and my troops consist of 1 squad of Battle Sisters and 1 rhino? Also, if thats the case, could I leave all 30 sisters just standing there the first turn, and have 3 rhinos play catch up? Finally, am I misreading this, or can this be avoided by deploying all 3 squads inside their rhino at the start of the battle?

Celestians with no Rhino-yep
Troops: Would indeed be 1 squad and their Rhino

Since vehicles can move freely after infantry have embarked, your best bet would probably be to have the vehicles sitting within embarkation range of the board edge, walk the Sisters on, mount up, and then move 12".

To the best of my knowledge, deploying the squad in their transport does not get around the above restrictions.

cypher wrote:So let me get this straght.
If i have two marine squads with rhinos in dawn of war my options are
1) deploy the squads inside the rhinos on the table
2) deploy one squad next to a rhino (doesn't need to even be the squad's rhino)
3) deploy both squads
4) deploy both rhinos...

Thats interesting.

#1 is invalid as you've deployed 4 units.

@Alpharius walks, that is a very cool idea. Deploy 2 transports far enough onto the table that their back is about 7" from the edge. On turn 1 the troops wlk up and embark and the tranports them take off, moving the troops another 12." Very cool indeed.

I think this subject is pretty much decided that it really doesn't effect IG at all since they could always split units within a platoon into drop/not drop or infiltrate/not infiltrate even though they rolled for the platoon as one.

But, I do think this may open up an even stickier subject, which is; how do we know which rules from an older codex over-rule the newer rules from the BGB?

Do drop pods fall under the 'mishap' rule or does the rule in their codex count as a specific deviation from the rules for that unit.

Do coaxial weapons still allow the user to keep his deviation dice the same as he re-rolls the scatter only or do the new re-roll rules override that specific rule?

Based on those answers maybe the IG platoon DOES need to follow the broader rules fromt he newer book.

(personally, my thought on all of these is that the more specific rule overrides the broader rule)

My undestanding was that the codex overwrites the main rule book IF the codex was released for that edition.

So basically the IG / Nid / SM / etc codices were overwritten by the main rule book.

But the Eldar / CSM / Deamon / Ork codices overwrite the main rule book as they're "5th edition" codices.

Would this rule also allow someone to deploy the dedicated transport for... say the HQ instead of the infantry.

Ex. Couldn't a marine player start with drop pod on the table. If his HQ is termis, couldn't they just teleport on later anyway - avoiding a very long walk?

If this rule is correct, is messes up EVERY HQ model that usally rides in a transport. Think about it, at this point you have deployed 2 HQ units, where the rules say only 1

Zoanthropes & Lictors still count as UNITS for deployment, even though the individual models are able to deploy out of normal unit cohesion & operate that way.

According to reserves you roll a die for each of your UNITS in reserve. The question would be if you could deploy some of the Lictors or Zoanthropes now and some later on a reserve roll... I'd say no. If the UNIT comes into play from a reserve roll (or reroll when dealing with Lictors) then you would place all the models out of reserve at that time.

The models would still be able to come onto the table using their special rules if any and may be placed independently but their unit in the force org. chart is coming in all at one time.

I say this because the specifically mentioned circumstances in the Preparing Reserves section (pg.94 BGB) discuss Independent Characters & Transport Vehicles. Zoanthropes & Lictors are neither of these. And thus are prepared for their reserve roll as a single unit.

Under MULTIPLE UNIT CHOICES (pg.92 BGB) it states that codexes will allow the inclusion of several units in his army at the cost of a single force organisation slot. Further even though they are bought as a single choice they operate and count as separate units in all respects.

Although Lictors & Zoanthropes act independently they are always considered a single unit. I don't see a clear line here that indicates they would deploy at separate TIMES during deployment... only separate places.

so is DoW like that old combat engagement scenario from the 3rd Edition RTT missions? I really did hate it.

I have to disagree with your interpretation Rockit. If your correct about Lictors, Zoanthropes and Biovores(who all share the "Acts independant of" rule). They are not "Always considered a single unit"

Though, the Brood rules for lictor do not include the phrase you're refering to. The Brood rules for Zoies and Bivores says, (taken from the Zoie on pg 44) "...Zoanthropes are deployed as a single unit..." it continues to say the operate independently. The rule only talks about deployment, not reserved, not any other time are they a single unit. IIRC there is a distinction in the BGB between the reserves and deloying, and if there is, each member of the FOC would be diced for seperately.

I hear you Datajax but all of the Lictors & Zoanthropes in a single force slot are considered one choice in the FOC.

I personally feel that for KPs and Reserves each independent model of those mentioned would be a separate and distinct unit... but the 5th ed. rules & Brood rule in the Tyranid codex do not make it clear how to handle them for deployment.

I would say the Lictor, without any text on deployment in the Brood section seems 'less-unclear' if you will but it is far from clear to me.

I left Biovores out because of the specific wording in the Brood section under Biovores in the Tyranid codex which states that "Biovores are deployed as a single unit". That text is conspicuously missing from Zoanthropes & Lictors though... perhaps a clue?

Ok for IG on DoW setup can they only have 2 squads for their troops or is it 2 platoons?

This is a pretty big diffrence.

A Platoon counts as one Troops choice. An IG Platoon consists of a command squad and 2-5 squads of (usually) 10 Guardsmen.

explanation for those not familiar with IG