Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I can't believe no one has talked about this yet. I'll be vague and avoid spoilers for those foolish enough to have not seen it yet.

Just an amazing piece of cinema. Truly an ensemble peice, with all characters/actors playing parts and getting lots of screen time. This isn't just about the Batman. Glad to see Gordon get to be more then just some background player. Aaron Eckhart does a fabulous Harvey Dent. Maggie makes Rachael Dawes into a more complete and interesting person. Micheal Caine and Bale are excellent as usual.

There is no way, though, to talk about the movie w/o singling out Ledger. This Joker is a monster for the ages and will easily go down as one of the great cinematic villains. Even in after the movie is over we really know nothing about him other then he is one step ahead of the curve on everyone and truly something to be feared. I'm not sure really how mass audiences are going to handle the Joker from The Killing Joke or The Dark Knight Returns as opposed to campier iterations shown on TV/Film this far. Young actors will be studying his scenes I imagine. Heath Ledger just totally disappears into the role.

Any complaint is really a nitpick and doesn't detract from the overall experience. See it on the big screen.

Keep your eye on the pencil.

Ahtman wrote:
Keep your eye on the pencil.

I see what you did there.


Agreed on all counts. Heath Ledger definitely stole the movie. It's really a pity that he's gone now.

Word to the faint of heart: this is a VERY dark movie, and The Joker is actually quite terrifying, and not in the "SURPRISE! SLASHSLASHSLASH!" way.

I tried to find Heath Ledger in this movie, but I just couldn't. I think the only other movie in recent history where that happened was Ray.

really a great, great film. Totally deserving of every ounce of the insane amts of cash it's gonna bring in.

I hope in the next film, they just don't even try to use the joker at all, because no actor can really bring that performance back, and even if one could I doubt they would even try, just out of respect.

I LOVED jack nicholson as the joker too, but that was such a different movie. And I really think sick, scarey joker was the only way anyone could go without making people just think he copied Jack. So Ledger just took it above and beyond.

Saw the movie this morning. I agree it was incredible. I was cheering for the Joker to win at everything he attempted. I love this kind of Joker. Not some pansy who wants people to actually be laughing. Not someone who is using jokes to kill people (ala Jack Nicholson's electrocution via hand buzzer). I want a Joker that is cutting people and laughing about it. Trying to prove something. I want a Joker who uses little tricks to unexpectedly kill people. I want him like he is supposed to be. Dark and demented. And that is what this move gave me, the perfect Joker.

What I think could be done with the whole Heath Ledger dead thing is make copy cat killers out of the Joker. A driving point of the next movie could be a lot of mentally disturbed people using the face of the Joker (the make up job and self mutilation) to inspire fear/insanity/disorder/chaos in other people and at the same time, in a sick twisted way, taking control of their lives by seizing power from the masses of people who are truly just like themselves/The Joker.

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!

It won't show in germany 'till late august. DAMNIT

And I can count me lucky on that one. Hellboy II and Wall-E won't show for another 2 Months.

Anung Un Rama wrote:AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!

It won't show in germany 'till late august. DAMNIT

And I can count me lucky on that one. Hellboy II and Wall-E won't show for another 2 Months.

WTF, how do i miss all these news?
Was there a preview?

There's a german site called Filmstarts.de, they are pretty accurate when it comes to release dates and they also write good reviews.

As for the why, well...I can only assume that the big german distributors decided that german viewers for some reason don't like to got the cinema that often during the warm time of the year. Which imnsho is rather stupid.

Got back from it an hour ago.

CHristian Bale didn't really have much to work with, being in the outfit for so much of it.

Agree +1 that Maggie > Katie in the role of Rachel Dawes.

As evertyone else was bit players to fit all the stuff in, Heath Ledger really ran away with it and overpowers all the other performances (even though they were all quite good).

WOuld he be oscar for best actor or supporting actor?
I'd say actor as he is the main character for the movie.

I was reading that he would be picked as supporting actor if he got nominated.. From the buzz I've been reading he's pretty much already got the win.

They also had some real good trailers too.. watchmen looked great on the big screen and also they had some new terminator movie taking place with john connor grown up and in the war with the machines, with christian bale a connor. might be interesting.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Agree +1 that Maggie > Katie in the role of Rachel Dawes.

Seriously?

Necros wrote:They also had some real good trailers too.

Agreed, from trailers on it was a great time. Watchmen, T4, Tropic Thunder, The Day the Earth Stood Still (forgetting about Keanu being in it ) ...

Fantastic movie, though reading reviews and talking to people who aren't gushing about it I can see places where it 'lacks.' But I can easily forgive, Joker as the man holding ALL of the cards ALL of the time (pun intended) instead of some nitwit who likes making bad jokes and then hitting somebody with a punching glove gun was brutally refreshing.

- Salvage

The Joker was amazing. THE best nemesis of all time. Sick, twisted, brutal, and brilliant. He never loses because noone else is even playing the same game.

When they make a sequel I imagine we'll see Harley Quinn and/or Poison Ivy. The way Ledger set up the Joker just begs for a kind of Manson cult following.

Two face was a bit of a let down for me.

Nice twist in the Harvey vs Rachel rescue drama. Suprised me.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Two face was a bit of a let down for me.

In what way? Amount of screen time or the way he looked? Something else?

Truly an amazing film. For me the best part was the intensity of the last hour. I expected it to end when the joker was captured.

I loved the sheer tension that Ledger created, i was on edge from that point on. It's the first time in a while that I've really been gripped by a movie.

My only criticism is that the plot at times seemed a bit disjointed, but the overwhelming atmosphere carried it through this. Also the inclusion of scarecrow at the beginning made no sense to me. Why was he there? That scene would have been fine without him, but it merely made an already confusing scene even moreso.

yeah I agree with the scarecrow thing. I guess they were just trying to establish that he's still around, maybe he'll be back for the 3rd movie

Two face just seemed added on, having the joker vs the batman with a revealing of 2 face at the end (set up for 3rd movie) would have been better and could have bought the time down somewhat.

For a guy cut-up over his loss he seemed pretty unemotional, despite being full of vengence.

Gazzdag wrote:My only criticism is that the plot at times seemed a bit disjointed, but the overwhelming atmosphere carried it through this. Also the inclusion of scarecrow at the beginning made no sense to me. Why was he there? That scene would have been fine without him, but it merely made an already confusing scene even moreso.

It was more a failing of the previous film, as the Scarecrow was left on the loose at the end of that movie after causing city wide havoc. The film wanted to have a scene showing the Batman copycats, the need for a more flexible suit of armour, and how brutal is was on Batman to fight every night.

They fitted the Scarecrow into that scene in place of some generic hoods in order to wrap up the plotline from the earlier movie.

Well, I saw it Friday and it was pure undilute awesome-sauce.

Thoughts

Heath Ledger really nailed the characterization of the Joker superbly, he's much closer to the omic version, basically Hannibal Lecter in clown make-up than to the overly mugging version of Jack Nicholson and Cesar Romero (Though Jack's performance was PERFECT for the tone of the 1989 movie) It ws a genuinely crrepy performace right from onwards.

Micheal Caine & Morgan Freeman were solid as ever and stole just about every scene they were in. Loved the emotion Caine had in Alfred's mannerisms when he was

The Two-Face make-up was ASTOUNDING. As was the psychological issues that make Havey Dent the man he is.


While I prefer Maggie to Katie Holmes, I don't think it made much difference as she really didn't have a whole ot to do in this film. I think it would have been more powerful if they could have avoided the actress swap, but well Cruise is nutso.

Christian Bale brought it in his usual intense way, though I think his performance in Begins just shades this one. possibly because Batman was one of three central characters in TDK and one of one in BB.

Only criticism is that the movie felt a little long (maybe 15mins). I think they could have cut the Hong Kong scene to something shorter and tighter.

so to finish.

Why So Serious...?

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

Spoiler:

The Pencil trick

WHERE DID IT GO?????

Gazzdag wrote:

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

Spoiler:

The Pencil trick

WHERE DID IT GO?????

IT'S MAGIC!

chaplaingrabthar wrote:

Spoiler:

And going by the rule of super-hero movies, we never saw a body, I'm willing to bet that Two-Face will be back if they make a third film, at least in some capacity.

The pencil thing was awesome. The whole theater cackled when that happened.

Two Face's makeup/cgi was incredible. Every time his eye moved every girl said "eeew!"

@ HFJor - Yes I think you're right.

@ Gonads - I agree and think Two-Face was the let down of the film. Stephen Hunter has good things to say in his Washington Post review, on Aaron Eckhart's abilities as Dent but weakness as the deranged villian. I have to agree with Hunter that much of the two-face part of the film - you know, the part that made it that extra bit too long - feels like the film falling to the summer blockbuster need to cram even more into what is otherwise a tight movie. See nearly any comic book movie in the last years, particularly other Batman ones, where extra characters are packed in to add to the spectacle (and because the source material has so many characters to be packed in). Hunter also takes issue with the final confrontation between Bat and Clown, and I feel his disappointment there as well.

Not withstanding, still a great movie. The buzz has just worn off is all

- Salvage

If you take that to be the Joker's main goal throughout, then I can buy that as why two-face is in the movie. But then I have to point again to Eckhart's relatively weak portrayal of that breakdown that robs it (the completion of Joker's scheming) of some strength.

- Salvage

Ahtman wrote:

Spoiler:

It wasn't crammed in, but necessary. Without that we wouldn't know that the Joker had won by taking the "best of them" and making him think that law and order were bs and transforming him from a guy who was once the symbol of hope in Gotham to a guy who kills 5 people in two days and tries to kill a kid. He is the Joker's victory. They bad guy won.

So, it's been a while since anyone posted in this thread, but since I don't write in any movieforum or something like that, I have to talk about it here. I saw the movie the 2nd time yesterday evening (this time in the english original) and I was really blown away. The first time I saw the the movie I was kinda surprised, because I didn't really expect that kind of movie, but the 2nd time was a total blast. Ledger in brilliant, from the moment he unmasks himself to his upside-down monlogue at the end.
IMO, Two-Face was necessary, otherwise the whole Joker thing would't have had as much impact as he did. I think he was still breathing at the end.


Okay, so know we all know it's a fantastic movie, but there are a few things that bothered me, and I hope you guys might enlighten me.

I guess at this point I won't have to use spoilertags anymore, since probably anyone reading this thread will have seen the movie already.

the balistic test
Just so that I can get that right: The Joker said somewhere over the radio or something that he got Harvey Dent, which were actually the two bodies called Dent and Harvey. At the crime scene, Bats drilled the part of the wall out where a bullet went. Back in the bat-garage (a cave, this is not) he shot several bullets in the same kind of wall to reconstruct a fingerpringt on the bullet to find an appartment were he thought the Joker would try to assassinate the mayor. Did I get that right? I know he's the word greatest detective and such, but seemed a little too over-the-top, even for me.

Why did they blame the Dent murders on Batman. Couldn't they just have blaimed it on the Joker or some Mob guy. Two of the victims were mobsters anyway. They also talke about 5 victims, but I only counted 3. The mob boss, his driver and 1 cop, he didn't kill Ramirez.


So, your thoughts?

Anung Un Rama wrote:Back in the bat-garage (a cave, this is not)

Well yeah, the Mansion and cave are still under construction after Ra's burned the whole thing to the foundation in Batman Begins.

Anung Un Rama wrote:he shot several bullets in the same kind of wall to [i]reconstruct a fingerpringt on the bullet to find an appartment were he thought the Joker would try to assassinate the mayor.

He did it just to find a fingerprint because the Joker had not been leaving any clues. It was to try and get any kind of information, not to specifically find out what apartment the.

Anung Un Rama wrote:Why did they blame the Dent murders on Batman. Couldn't they just have blaimed it on the Joker or some Mob guy. Two of the victims were mobsters anyway.

There wasn't enough time to cover it up. Batman takes the fall becuase he can. He isn't a hero, like Superman. He doesn't need to be loved and he doesn't do it so people will like him. After everything that had happened telling everyone that the guy they drew such hope from and belief that things were going to get better turns out to be no better than any other psychopathic freak would have crushed the citizens. It's like how President Nixon and Watergate have effected American politics. We don't trust any of them more than ever.

Anung Un Rama wrote:They also talke about 5 victims, but I only counted 3. The mob boss, his driver and 1 cop, he didn't kill Ramirez.

I wondered about that to. I imagine there were others. They may have blamed the dead cop in his hospital room on him.

So, your thoughts?

Well yeah, the Mansion and cave are still under construction after Ra's burned the whole thing to the foundation in Batman Begins.

I know. It still bothered me a little.

He did it just to find a fingerprint because the Joker had not been leaving any clues. It was to try and get any kind of information, not to specifically find out what apartment the.

I still thought it was a little extreme how he reconstructed the print. A nice idea, but a little too over-the-top imho.

There wasn't enough time to cover it up.

....makes sense....


okay, I guess that sums it up pretty well. A few more thoughts from me: The Two-Face designe was excellent, the pictures didn't do it justice. His expressions were awesome. And it was a nice thouch that he was just wearing his old suit.

The Bad-Pod was pretty cool, but it was not worth blowing up the tumbler :(

Anung Un Rama wrote:

Well yeah, the Mansion and cave are still under construction after Ra's burned the whole thing to the foundation in Batman Begins.

I know. It still bothered me a little.

Continuity bothers you?


I think the bullet reconstruction was to meant to show what an unlimited research budget can do.