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here is the list that i came up with to deal with the objective based nature of 5th.

here goes....

HQ:
Heroic Sr. Officer Alonso, Power Weapon, Regimental Standard, Master Vox, Medic – 135

Elites:
6 Ogryns, Bone ‘ead, Chimera w/ Extra Armor and Pintle HS – 250

Troops:
1st Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
Jr. Officer Aegeon, Missile Launcher – 55
3rd Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
Jr. Officer Polonius, Heavy Bolter – 50
Armored Fist Squad, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Chimera w/ Pintle HS - 165
Armored Fist Squad, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Chimera w/ Pintle HS – 165
10 =][= Storm Troopers, Melta Gun, Grenade Launcher, Veteran Sergeant w/ Power Weapon, Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Pintle SB – 195

Fast Attack:
10 Rough Riders, Hunting Lances, Melta Bombs – 150

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank Iago, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank Oberron, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank Aeriela, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170

Doctrines:
Rough Riders
Light Infantry
Sharp Shooters
Ogryns
Close Order Drill

please rip this list apart....i want it to kick ass and take names

thanks a lot!
BLARGAG!!!

BLARGAG!!! wrote:here is the list that i came up with to deal with the objective based nature of 5th.

here goes....

HQ:
Heroic Sr. Officer Alonso, Power Weapon, Regimental Standard, Master Vox, Medic – 135

Change the Heroic Sr. Officer to a Junior Officer with Honorifica Imperialis. Saves you 5 points. Lose the Power Weapon, downgrade Reg. Standard to Company Standard, lose the Master Vox and Medic.

Elites:
6 Ogryns, Bone ‘ead, Chimera w/ Extra Armor and Pintle HS – 250

Not a fan of Ogryns but if you really like them then more power to you.

Troops:
1st Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 100
Jr. Officer Aegeon, Missile Launcher – 55

Not a fan of Grenade Launchers especially here where Plasma Gun strength 7 goes really well with Autocannon strength 7, but I suppose massed blast templates might have something going for them. Ditch Voxes.

3rd Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
Jr. Officer Polonius, Heavy Bolter – 50
Armored Fist Squad, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Chimera w/ Pintle HS - 165
Armored Fist Squad, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Chimera w/ Pintle HS – 165

10 =][= Storm Troopers, Melta Gun, Grenade Launcher, Veteran Sergeant w/ Power Weapon, Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Pintle SB – 195

You're going to need a lot more Lascannons at 2500 points. I'd want the 5 standard squads to be Las/Plas. Think 3 Monoliths or 5 Land Raiders. I can see the Chimera's and Rhino as mobile line of sight blocking terrain but thats all, again at this points level their survivability is slim. If you want the Stormtroopers make them double Melta, I personally take Sisters of Battle instead.

Fast Attack:
10 Rough Riders, Hunting Lances, Melta Bombs – 150

Why not two units of 5 instead? Easier to hide.

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank Iago, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank Oberron, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170
Leman Russ Battle Tank Aeriela, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170

Most popular config is the 3 Heavy Bolters per Russ.

Doctrines:
Rough Riders
Light Infantry
Sharp Shooters
Ogryns
Close Order Drill

Again, don't like Ogryns but if you must take them make sure you keep them away from Powerfists. You don't have Iron Discipline which is a shame considering Troops now score to the last man. Might as well take Iron Discipline instead of Sharpshooters since you don't seem to be using it anyway. In my opinion, Cameleoline will be big in 5th. 2+ cover save for going to ground means that your opponent pretty much wastes shooting and needs to go and dig you out with assaults or Flamers.

2500 point 40k is a much different game than 2000 point 40k, you'll see different builds and should be planning for them.

kadun wrote:
Change the Heroic Sr. Officer to a Junior Officer with Honorifica Imperialis. Saves you 5 points. Lose the Power Weapon, downgrade Reg. Standard to Company Standard, lose the Master Vox and Medic.

why should i ditch the vox? testing on Ld 9 instead of 7 is really big (imo)

You're going to need a lot more Lascannons at 2500 points. I'd want the 5 standard squads to be Las/Plas. Think 3 Monoliths or 5 Land Raiders. I can see the Chimera's and Rhino as mobile line of sight blocking terrain but thats all, again at this points level their survivability is slim. If you want the Stormtroopers make them double Melta, I personally take Sisters of Battle instead.

based on this, should i reverse the outfit of each of the platoons? (ie 5 lascannons and 3 autocannons) and i see where ur coming from with the plasma guns... now all i need to do is find like 10 plasma gun bitz.

Why not two units of 5 instead? Easier to hide.

good point... i hadnt thought of that

Most popular config is the 3 Heavy Bolters per Russ.

reason im not gonna change this is cuz i already have all 3 built and painted.

Again, don't like Ogryns but if you must take them make sure you keep them away from Powerfists. You don't have Iron Discipline which is a shame considering Troops now score to the last man. Might as well take Iron Discipline instead of Sharpshooters since you don't seem to be using it anyway. In my opinion, Cameleoline will be big in 5th. 2+ cover save for going to ground means that your opponent pretty much wastes shooting and needs to go and dig you out with assaults or Flamers.

that is a verrrry good point. i think im gonna change that. i think ill get rid of close order drill for Cameleoline.

thank you very much for your input... ill re-write the list and post it up in a little while for your inspection.

*EDIT* here is my new and improved list

HQ:
Jr. Officer Alonso, Honorifica Imperialis Standard, Master Vox,– 135
Elites:
6 Ogryns, Bone ‘ead, Chimera w/ Extra Armor and Pintle HS – 250
Troops:
1st Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 120
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 120
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 120
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 120
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 120
Jr. Officer Aegeon, Missile Launcher – 55

3rd Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry, Vox – 110
Jr. Officer Polonius, Heavy Bolter – 50

Armored Fist Squad, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Chimera w/ Pintle HS - 165

Armored Fist Squad, Missile Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Chimera w/ Pintle HS – 165

10 =][= Storm Troopers, Melta Gun, Grenade Launcher, Veteran Sergeant w/ Power Weapon, Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Pintle SB – 195
Fast Attack:
5 Rough Riders, Hunting Lances, Melta Bombs – 75

5 Rough Riders, Hunting Lances, Melta Bombs – 75
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank Iago, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170

Leman Russ Battle Tank Oberron, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170

Leman Russ Battle Tank Aeriela, Hull Lascannon, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 170

Doctrines:
Rough Riders
Light Infantry
Iron Discipline
Ogryns
Cameleoline

Reason you should get rid of the Vox is because the leaders of your armu produce a leadership bubble of 12" all around them, which is plenty of room to fit in your squads. They get the Leaders leadership without paying for it!

As for not changing the Lascannons on the Leman Russ, I reconstructed my army after reading Dakka, I had missle launchers and flamers and really horrible mixies of units including Lascannons on Russ. Believe me, a little bit of tweaking now will save you heartache later as you lose over and over.

It might also be worth either getting rid of the Heavy Weapons from the Platoon HQs because you don't want to expose them to fire, or make it 4 Flamers and make use of the fact they can all use Special Weapons and have them as a Counter Assault unit.

that is fair enough. one question tho.... how would i go about changing the outfit of my russes w/out ripping them, apart?

i definatly like the 4 flamers idea.... i have to try that.

with the vox thing... that actually really makes sense, thanks for explaining that.

*EDIT*
with the changes that were suggested, im now 75 points over... what should i drop?

I don't have enough experience with this game to comment on the technical aspects of the list, but I would like to express approval of the character names borrowed from Shakespeare. I do suggest you model one really fat sergeant and refer to him as "Sir John Falstaff" (this might be funnier on a commissar, but I don't see any, and I understand that they're considered too expensive for their purpose).

Quidlon wrote:I don't have enough experience with this game to comment on the technical aspects of the list, but I would like to express approval of the character names borrowed from Shakespeare. I do suggest you model one really fat sergeant and refer to him as "Sir John Falstaff" (this might be funnier on a commissar, but I don't see any, and I understand that they're considered too expensive for their purpose).

there actually was a commisar mini back in 3rd ed that was rather portly, i think that i might have to name him that. thanks for the suggestion

Some of your units are mispointed, command squads must take Camo. Why did you pay for Iron Discipline if your not going to buy it for your Officers?

To change the russes take a sprue cutter and snip off the lascannon and attach a Heavy Bolter from the HWT kit.

Orgyns, seriously? 250 pts of pure crap. One hidden fist can cripple a unit and they can't even roll up shooting armies anymore. Drop 'em you can now buy a Hellhound and another squad.

Why are you taking ISTs? They can't infiltrate or DS. Take regular Stormtroopers, divide the squad into 5 with 2 Meltas each and a naked Sgt.

Armored Fist squads are mispointed. Equip them like your regular squads Las/plas or Auto/plas.

Lose the HWs on your JOs. Hide them out of LoS.

fair enough... ill re-re-write the list and re-post it for review.

thanks for the input.

I like this list alot-
Its got a cool feel to it with the 'Riders and the Ogryn.

Your officer will hopefully never be needed in CC- thanks to your ogryn and Riders, so a Power wep isn't really neccessary
Also- Im not a fan of Vox, but I do like medics- They give the squad a slight level of survivability. In 5th edition- rolling the saves for the officer first allows for the first failed save to be an important one to stop.


Ogryn- I guess this is cool- I never use them- but thats not to say you shouldn't. Nice to have high wound models.

Troops-
I'm not a fan of Vox.- I support the leadership bubble comment.
Light infantry is good, and the grenade launcher is a flexible weapon.
The autocannons may restrict the fire of the squad by wanting to gun for medium-light vehicles. I honestly like the abiltiy to manouvour with my squads- especialy with Close order doctrine, and i rarely take a heavy weapon in my guard teams that infiltrate. (you are going to infiltrate right?)

If a land raider pops up on the feild (or 2 or 3), you'll wish all those Missle launchers were Lascannons.

I love rough riders- graet choice- (as above- two 5 man squads is an ok idea)

Russes- 3 H.bolt or 1 Lascannon not a combo of the two. This gives it a distinct purpose if the battle cannon is destroyed, rather than having a little anti-tank, a little anti-troop.

Can you use light infantry on the HQ command squad?

Why do you even have sharpshooters? I don't see it purchased anywhere.


When I play games this large-

-I have 10 man squads with meltas and sharpshooters- (don't laugh- it's actually effective)
these destroy any assault vehicles that get to close, and allow for me to constantly adjust my fire line bases on the enemy position.
Also- no one wants to deepstrike termies or dreadnoughts ar crisis suits on me anymore- because of the meltas.
With the 5 edition consolidation- having squads to rapid fire assault enemys is neccessary- and when they have a heavy weapon- this means that they are negelecting another target.

-Iron Dicipline is a wonderfull doctrine- I would strongly encourage it for all officers. (assuming you have your command bubbles set up well- It could easyly win you an objective game)

Nice list overall- I like it

*re-re-wrote the list*

here goes nothing.... let me no what you think now

HQ:
Jr. Officer Alonso, Honorifica Imperialis, Standard, Iron Discipline – 115
Elites:
5 Storm Troopers, 2 Melta Guns, Infiltrate - 75
5 Storm Troopers, 2 Melta Guns, Infiltrate - 75
Troops:
1st Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry,– 115
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry,– 115
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry,– 115
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry,– 115
10 Guardsmen, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry,– 115
Jr. Officer Aegeon, 4 Flamers, Iron Discipline – 70
3rd Platoon; 2nd Battalion
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry– 105
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry– 105
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry– 105
10 Guardsmen, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Cameleoline, Light Infantry– 105
Jr. Officer Polonius, 4 Flamers, Iron Discipline – 70
Armored Fist Squad, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Chimera w/ Pintle HS & Extra Armor - 172
Armored Fist Squad, Autocannon, Plasma Gun, Chimera w/ Pintle HS & Extra Armor – 172
Fast Attack:
5 Rough Riders, Hunting Lances, Melta Bombs – 75
5 Rough Riders, Hunting Lances, Melta Bombs – 75
Hellhound, Extra Armor – 120
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank Iago, Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 160
Leman Russ Battle Tank Oberron, Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 160
Leman Russ Battle Tank Aeriela, Hull Heavy Bolter, Sponson Heavy Bolters, Extra Armor – 160

Doctrines:
Rough Riders
Light Infantry
Iron Discipline
Storm Troopers
Cameleoline

Cameleoline & Light Infantry? Yipe!

Quickly, read this, then come back to us.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Cameleoline & Light Infantry? Yipe!

Quickly, read this, then come back to us.

I'm guessing that the key phrase in that article that you're pointing the OP to is the one that says:

"10 points a squad will catch up to you, and if you find yourself spending over 100 points on it you must take a fresh look at your army and decide if an increased cover save is worth more than an extra 20+ men."

Is that right, HBMC?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Cameleoline & Light Infantry? Yipe!

Quickly, read this, then come back to us.

BYE

i read that and am wondering... what should i have come back to you with... it was a very informative read and essentially told me that all of the choices that i have made in my army are pretty solid choice. also, the 100+ points that im spending on those 2 things seems justified to me cuz i think (especially w/ the new go to ground rule) that a +1 to cover save is really big.

BLARGAG!!! wrote:i read that and am wondering... what should i have come back to you with... it was a very informative read and essentially told me that all of the choices that i have made in my army are pretty solid choice.

The Cameleoline perhaps, but 9 squads with Light Infantry? What do you need that for?

And you know what else costs 75 points? H-Vets w/3 Meltaguns. They're a better deal than the Stormies. 85 with Cameleoline.

And a single Hellhound is asking for truoble. Sure, the Chimeras give your opponent something else to shoot at, but really they just make the Hellhound stand out even more.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:\And a single Hellhound is asking for truoble. Sure, the Chimeras give your opponent something else to shoot at, but really they just make the Hellhound stand out even more.

With the threat that flame template weapons are in general in 5E and the panic that I'm hearing about opponents having to Hellhounds (whether rational or not), I have a feeling that's going to be the number one target on the board for your opponent.

one thing that ive noticed about the people that i play with is that they REALLY dont like LRBTs. and by fielding 3 of them, im drawing a lot of fire away from EVERYTHING else.

the reason that i gave all of the squads light infantry is so that i can 1) set up my ENTIRE army (barring a couple of things) last and 2) so that i can infiltrate a platoon onto an objective and hold that w/ their 3+ cover save from cameleoline.

regarding the HVs. should i run 2 squads of 5 with 1 squad having 3 plasma and 1 having 3 melta? or should i just go for 2 w/ 3 melta? (if that made any sense)

again, thanks for the input

later
BLARGAG!!!

In the current environment, I'd try both units with 3 Meltas, and then see if it's overkill or not. Vehicles are tougher, yet Meltaguns still kill vehicles quite well. See if you need 6. If you do, keep them. If you don't, then a unit of 3 Plasmas will give you more utility.

BYE

hey all,

pleased to let ya'll know that i play tested the new and improved list performed very well (and if i had rolled a little better, i would have cleaned up by turn 3).

so just saying thanks for all of the help that i got from you guys.

peace out!
BLARGAG!!!

BLARGAG!!! wrote:hey all,

pleased to let ya'll know that i play tested the new and improved list performed very well (and if i had rolled a little better, i would have cleaned up by turn 3).

so just saying thanks for all of the help that i got from you guys.

peace out!
BLARGAG!!!

Any chance of writing a batrep? I'm curious to hear how the game went.

surely....

here goes....

i played against one of the *many* marine players at my FLGS.

*DEPLOYMENT*
he deployed first, nothing special... he hid all of his stuff in forests and buildings (btw, termis w/ a 4+ cover save is rough). then i deployed. i placed my 3 LRBTs, Hellhound, and RR squads. then we rolled off for infiltrators... i won (YAY!). so i plopped a platoon down onto the objective in the middle of the table and put 2 squads on the objective in my zone and the rest of the guys i spread out across the table w/ a hardened vets squad on each flank.
*TURN1*
i failed the "seize the initiative" roll w/ a 5 (GRRR!), so he got 1st turn. first, he moved his scout biker squad up in the hopes of vaping one of my LRBTs, but was foiled cuz he cant assault it through another squad (in this c ase my platoon command squad, which he shot at and killed everyone except for the officer). then he moved his vindicator out from behind cover and shot at a squad. they went to ground and only failed 1 save out of 10 (big surprise.... they had a 2+ save). this made him angry. he shot a 2 asscannon termi squad at the same squad and only killed one more guardsmen. he then shot a tac squad the was in a woods at the only fully exposed guardsmen on the table... he only managed to kill 4.

my turn was pretty funny. i had all of this fire power and it managed to do a grand total of not a whole lot. i killed 3 scouts, knocked the asscannon off a Dred and killed a couple of tac marines. i was sad. in assault, i coulnt even kill a squad of scout bikers w/ my RRs (even w/ 15 S5 power weapon attacks).

*TURN2*
ill save you from this and just tell you that not a whole lot of interesting things happened. his command squad wiped a guard squad off the table (which i proceeded to kill to just the Libby next turn w/ shooting), and i killed his vindicator w/ a lascannon shot. other than that, i pretty much totally failed at shooting. my guardsmen couldnt hit the fu**ing broad side of a barn.

*TURN 3*
highlights of this turn include....
-his GK Termis Deep Striking off the table
-and me wiping an tac squad off the table in assault (gotta love hunting lances )
other than that, not a whole lot of note happened.

*TURN 4*
opponent realizes that he cant win w/ 1/2 a tac squad, a libby, 1/2 a scout squad, and 2 termis so he quits. i agree w/ him. there was no way on this earth that he could get a full platoon off of 2 objectives to win.

so... overall it was a fun game and if i had rolled better i probably would have cleaned house by 2nd turn.

thanks for listening (i mean reading) this long ramble.

peace out!
BLARGAG!!!