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This is part of an effort to get GW to answer questions. Who knows, maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

Can Chaos Dreadnoughts that Fire Frenzy opt to run instead of firing?

Can you force a unit to take multiple dangerous terrain tests if lashed in and out of dangerous terrain?

Does attaching Kharn to a unit let the unit ignore Psychic powers? Or is his null rod not the same as the Imperial version?

If you want GW people to look at this, I guess the question we need answered most is...

Why did you gut the codex? It used to be cool.

It was far too powerful compared to the other codecies

'zactly.

Red_Lives wrote:It was far too powerful compared to the other codecies

Probably just rumor shock, but what do you think the new SM codex is going to be like?

Bah, the old chaos codex didn't perform that well in tournaments did it? It had a lot of toys, but most people didn't know what to do with them.

As for flipping back and forth to find stuff, isn't that what the CURRENT codex requires? I hate having to go back to fluff pages to find the rules for things like possessed or the dreads. That was a BS excuse.

Typeline wrote:

Red_Lives wrote:It was far too powerful compared to the other codecies

Probably just rumor shock, but what do you think the new SM codex is going to be like?

I've heard insane rumors, all of which are terribly overpowered, and very few of which I actually believe.

Anyways, I don't have any questions for the FAQ that is already out, but I can answer the OP's first question. The Codex explicitly states that you must fire your weapons (twice, tehe) at the closest visible unit (and you can't even hide your own units anymore! Peh), and as running would disallow this, I think it would be fair to assume that you can't run in fire frenzy.

I rather like the new Chaos Space Marine Codex. I also rather like the new Eldar, Ork, Dark Angel, and Blood Angel Codices (well, except for the Master of the Ravenwing...).

Burning Star IV is right about the first question. That's pretty easy. The other questions are easily answered as well. Units affected by the Lash of Submission take dangerous terrain tests as normal, and the normal described in the rulebook is whenever they move into dangerous terrain. The third question is weird because Kharn does not have a Null Rod. Kharn has the Blessing of the Blood God which specifies that he is unaffected by psychic powers and makes no mention of conferring that ability to a unit that he joins. I'm not certain why anyone with access to the rules would even ask these questions.

Just ask Yak. I hear they get all their answers from him.

Or simply read the GW FAQs. Y'know, whichever.

Gee Nurglitch, with you to save me I feel better already.

I flip open the book, and despite the fact that the Codex says you MUST fire...GW said quite plainly you can NOT use smoke.

Why? It says you MUST fire. What, don't understand? That's allright. I do. So do others. GW does too. This question needs an answer because their own answer opened a loophole. Welcome to GW.

I like your logic on 'move'. Is it my movement phase? How am I 'moving'? See, GW never did define 'move' as 'moving a model at any point'. They defined it as 'moving during your turn'. Which part of Lash occurs during my turn? My movement phase? Right. Since there are exceptions for 'move' not triggering dangerous terrain tests already in the rules you claim to know so well, how are we to know if there is an exception or an exemption for this as well? We don't. So we need an answer. Not more supposition.

Thank you for noticing that the Null Rod and Kharn's Blessing have the same in-game effect. You fail at rules 101, which is when an item has the same effect it should indeed have the same answer as to what that effect is when you reference another rule with the same effect elsewhere in the rules. An omission from the rules is just as bad as poorly worded rules.

"I'm not certain why anyone with access to the rules would even ask these questions. "

How about now?

That was a rhetorical question.

Stelek:

I don't see the problem: the Codex states that the Dreadnought must fire all of its weapons. Since neither running nor popping smoke involve firing weapons it is quite right that GW should say quite plainly that neither option is available during a Fire Frenzy.

Likewise I don't see the problem with the answer I provided for your second question. The rules quite plainly explain what normally happens when a model moves into dangerous terrain. The condition is: Has the unit moved into dangerous terrain? If yes, then make dangerous terrain checks. GW has already given the answer; all you have to do is look it up.

Finally, I don't see what the Null Rod has to do with the Blessings of the Blood God, particularly since the official GW FAQ does address what happens when a psychic power addresses models on the board besides Kharn. To whit, the other models are affected, Kharn is not. That incomprehensible blarney you're making up about the rules is irrelevant to the fact that the answer is right there in the GW FAQ.

Then again, it does serve me right for trying to help someone like you.

But they don't, Nurglitch. They only say popping smoke is not allowed. Please re-read the rules on running, ok?

Movement: Page 11, first words of the first paragraph. They contradict you and your assumptions. You miss the point about taking dangerous terrain tests--it's listed as an "OR" operand. Does that mean if I lash you, and I move your models around...do they take the terrain tests for starting in terrain AND ending in terrain? OR just for one condition or the other?

Kharn's answer in the faq address what happens when a psychic power addresses Kharns UNIT? Where, please point it out:

Does Kharn's Blessing of the Blood God ignore persistent psychic abilities?

Yes. The psychic power still functions, however Kharn simply ignores and and all effects of the ability.

Contrast with:

DH FAQ:

Q. Does a unit with a null rod ignore persistent
psychic abilities (such as Psychic Scream or Veil
of Tears)?

A. Yes. The psychic ability still functions, however
the unit with the null rod simply ignores any and
all effects of the ability.

So what happens when Kharn joins a unit that can shoot?

I'm glad you tossed in a personal insult. I hope you get banned for it.

Stelek:

Again, the Codex says that during a Fire Frenzy you must fire your weapons. You do not have the option to do anything else when a 1 gets rolled. Running is not firing weapons. It's pretty clear cut.

Likewise if a unit moves through difficult terrain it takes a test for each time it moves. That's all there is to it.

Now let me point out where the Chaos Space Marine FAQ answers your question about whether Blessings of the Blood God extends to any units that Kharn joins.

The FAQ says that Kharn ignores the effects of persistent psychic, and that, likewise, the power is not negated by Blessings of the Blood God. Clearly the immunity to Psychic Powers is limited to Kharn and Kharn alone.

Furthermore, notice that the Null Rod is taken by an Inquisitor unit whereas Blessings of the Blood God is taken by an Independent Character. Surely you are aware of the differences between a Character with a Retinue and an Independent Character.

Let me spell it out for you: Units that Kharn joins do not gain a 5+ Invulnerable save, attack with the effects of Gorechild or so on. Likewise since the text for Blessings of the Blood God specifies Kharn and the FAQ makes it clear that Kharn and Kharn alone is unaffected by psychic powers and does not affect psychic powers, that this rule does not extend to any unit that he might join.

The rulebook says you can not fire if you run. Which part of 'GW opened a loophole by closing one and not both' is hard for you to get?

The rules do not support your assumption about units moving. Sorry you don't understand that, but that's ok.

Inquisitors can also be IC's, and they can join ANY unit. Those units gain the benefits of the null rod/blessing.
Do you finally understand yet?

Obviously not. You seem to want to argue with nonsense arguments. I lash a unit with Kharn attached. Is the unit immune or not? Ok, I can move the unit away from Kharn then? Then lascannon him to death?

You really need to stop arguing just because you want to.

Provide rules based answers. Not 'my nurglibberish sense went off and this is the rule!', ok?

Stelek,

I find it hard to get things that are not true. The rulebook says you cannot fire if you run, but the codex says you must fire, and since the codex limits your options to firing, then the fact that you cannot fire if you run is irrelevant.

Perhaps you could help me understand how, exactly, the rules do not support my conclusion that units test for dangerous terrain each time that they move? Please quote directly from the source material, and provide your method so that I can check your work.

If Inquisitors are accompanied by a retinue they are not Independent Characters, and they are a part of that unit. When they are not accompanied by a retinue they are a unit unto themselves. They do not share their rules with another unit that they join: the Inquisitor has the Null Rod, not the unit he joins.

In answer to your question about Kharn, clearly Kharn is immune to the Lash of Submission and the psychic power still functions. When the Lash of Submission functions, the unit is moved 2D6" in a direction chosen by the controlling player, etc. You can move the unit away from Kharn, and Lascannon him to death if the unit moves such that he is no longer part of it.

After all, it seems to me that quoting from the relevant Codex and the FAQ, and explaining my method is providing rules based answers.

The thing is Stelek, it's not that I don't understand your reasoning, it's just that I disagree with it. That's all. If you want to discuss rules, please do so in a clear and precise manner. Obviously this can only be done by establishing common ground and working from there.

In order to do this, it would be necessary for you to refrain from labeling my attempts to explain my position to you as "nonsense arguments" and "nurglibberish". Invective is not a substitute for reasoning, however much it may amuse you.

You already won Nurglitch.

I put you on ignore.

Go on with your bad self.

Stelek:

Sticking your fingers in your ears and blowing raspberries is no way to treat people who are trying to help you.

You may find it useful to know that I don't think arguments can be won, in the sense of being some sort of competition to see who is right. I think that discussions can be constructive, however, when people work together to resolve their disagreements.

Wow. Just wow. With apologies to Burning Star IV and other bystanders, I'm locking this thread.

Stelek, please feel free to restart.

This is a warning to all. If you disagree about the underpinnings of threads like this, attack the argument, not the person.