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So say you've got one cheap unit and one shooty unit checkerboarded in two ranks in the open for mutual cover saves. During the move phase, the cheap unit slides diagonally one inch back through the shooty unit, therefore clearing the sightlines to the enemy and denying them a cover save from shooting through another unit. After fire from the shooty unit is resolves, the cheap unit runs back into position, restoring cover for both units. Does this work or am I missing something?

Yes, but I wouldn't walk in any dark alleys after the game.

Yet another reason why running should happen in the movement phase...

BYE

Remember that shooting is done in a sequence, unit by unit. The first unit hits the cheap unit and reduces that unit so that it can't cover the expensive unit, then the following units just eat the shooters alive.

Or you can just charge both units with an assault unit and get a two-for-one deal.

wight_widow wrote:So say you've got one cheap unit and one shooty unit checkerboarded in two ranks in the open for mutual cover saves. During the move phase, the cheap unit slides diagonally one inch back through the shooty unit, therefore clearing the sightlines to the enemy and denying them a cover save from shooting through another unit. After fire from the shooty unit is resolves, the cheap unit runs back into position, restoring cover for both units. Does this work or am I missing something?

This works just fine.

The most reasonable and non-abusive way to use coversaves imo. Preferably with something like conscripts on a long line and your AT squads in the gaps between them.

It sounds very abusive in one way, but on the other hand its a reasonable tactics. I would not be supprised if similar things have been done in real life, although perhaps to shield against arrows instead

Haha i started to discuss this on another forum.

They came up with different tactics to go against this.

- Pin the screen unit.
- Use Flamers.
- Multiple charges.
- Using a basilisk.
- Just using plain bolters to shoot down the screen and then assault it.

Well, getting the opponent to use his weapons on the screen unit is excatly what you want them to do isnt it?

And by the time you can assult and/or flame them, you should be dead or they will have failed.

This is not a problem, this is a new cool part of what is a much better game.

The tactical two-step was discussed quite a bit back in this thread.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/207366.page#238469

The basics is that while it works, the screening unit is vulnerable and can generaly be shot to pieces fairly quickly if the other player brought any decent amount of fire power to the field. That or if the sceening uint is really tough, its a lot of points (and thus a lot of the player's army) that is just sitting in the back doing nothing but baby sitting the shooting squad. Either way, its mostly not worth doing.

Sounds very annoying, but (since i am Tau) Marker lights will take care of that. "cover units" never last long enough to provide true cover anyway.

Page 11 has a section titled Models In The Way which mentions that a model cannot move through the space between two models in another unit in coherency with one another(friendly or not). Wouldn't this prevent the screening unit from moving back behind the shooting one? They can't pass through the shooting unit unless they have jump packs.

Also, since you move every model in one unit before moving another unit, would this same rule in effect tar-pit two units checkerboarded for mutual cover saves. Both units have created a grid of spaces that the other unit's models cannot pass through.

Master Darksol wrote:Page 11 has a section titled Models In The Way which mentions that a model cannot move through the space between two models in another unit in coherency with one another(friendly or not). Wouldn't this prevent the screening unit from moving back behind the shooting one? They can't pass through the shooting unit unless they have jump packs.

The rules actually say:


So as long as you have the space to move the models, the tactic is legal.

Master Darksol wrote:Also, since you move every model in one unit before moving another unit, would this same rule in effect tar-pit two units checkerboarded for mutual cover saves. Both units have created a grid of spaces that the other unit's models cannot pass through.

As shown, this would not occur.

When would this actually be worth doing? If you had a unit of Chaos havocs or noise marines out in the open camping on an objective and because of a bad reserve roll they had a unit of summoned lesser demons right there, it might be better than nothing. And even that's a stretch.

IG can use this. If you have a lot of squads, it's possible to run out of cover. Cheap HB/F squads, or even remnents are readily available to cover anti-tank squads and the like.

grots and lootas, grots and big gunz, grots and flash gits,.... heck, grots and anything that can shoot.

not that them crumpy orks is good at anyfing

here we go again.

Hmm, so this is basically a half-witting pastiche of Phoenix and VoodooBoyz tactics. (credit to somebody else but his thread on checkerboarding in 5th was the first I read)

@H.: I'm sincerely flattered by your insinuation that this is gamey and abusive.

@Martndemus: something else that works against these sorts of tactics will be kill points. When part of the scoring values screening units equally to business units, screening units will lose value in general, even when they can get a cover save from the business unit. VoodooBoyz original idea of twinned units working in formation is possibly a lot stronger than that of taking a cheap unit for cover, because a cheap unit is typically less resilient than an expensive one and each will yeild a single kill point. Who cares about your GK Termies? I just got twice their kill points mowing down the two squads of inducted IG you got to screen them. etc.

Of course, if you roll low on your run, now all you have is two units packed into a nice package for my hellhound. Not to mention that few cheap screening units will stand up to any sort of firepower before breaking, or simply taking so many losses they can no longer effectively screen.

biztheclown wrote:This is not a problem, this is a new cool part of what is a much better game.

And to take it even further. It is a nice option, but underwhelming in most situations. When the 5th edition rumors said that the screened unit could not be shot at at all it raised some eyebrows. Nowadays, getting a 4+ save is about as easy as it comes, paying points for something you can get for free is less exciting.