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I was just toying around with this idea for a rule:

Any of your units which did not fire during your shooting phase and did not move during your turn may fire at an enemy unit which moves into its line of sight during the opponent's movement phase. Normal restrictions apply (i.e. a vehicle that moved flat-out, a unit that ran...). If your unit moved at all from the beginning of your last turn up until the enemy unit in question moved into its line of sight, then it may not shoot. This includes any and all movement (Tau jetpacks in the assault phase, moving your vehicle, getting tank shocked, psychic abilities...)

I remember hearing that the move to real LOS was a move to a more cinematic (?) feel to the game. So wouldn't a rule where your guys can hunker down and wait for the enemy fit that cinematic vein? I'm just thinking about a dozen fire warriors sitting all happy holding an objective when from behind a wall in comes roaring jump troops/bikers/fleeting whatevers that were just out of LOS. And now those fire warriors--patiently waiting for a target-- have one step right in front of them. But they don't get to react?

This does add more play during each other's turns which chips away at the turn-based feel of the game...is that bad (honest question)? But would this be too time consuming? Would this nerf assault armies too much? Is this too bad for even a house rule? I'm I just a whiner that needs to stop crying over fire warriors?

please see "over watch"

There will never be a more bitterly divisive issue in the 40K community than overwatch. I believe that there should be some sort of overwatch as an option, and that the restrictions you mentioned seem sensible to me. Be prepared for a lot of angry replies to this topic, but don't let them drag you down to their level.

No way. Overwatch led to a VERY static game. It belongs in Space Hulk or D&D not 40K.

Overwatch:
In modern warfare, overwatch is the state of one small unit or military vehicle supporting another unit, while they are executing fire and movement tactics. An overwatching, or supporting unit has taken a position where it can observe the terrain ahead, especially likely enemy positions. This allows it to provide effective covering fire for advancing friendly units. The term overwatch originates in U.S. military doctrine.

An ideal overwatch position provides cover for the unit, and unobstructed lines of fire. It may be on a height of ground or at the top of a ridge, where a vehicle may be able to adopt a hull-down position. If the overwatching unit is in a position to fire over advancing friendly units, great care must be taken not to let fire fall short. The friendly units should be within tracer burnout (the range at which tracer rounds are visible).

Overwatch can be performed by platoons during company fire and movement, by individual armoured fighting vehicles (esp. tanks) or infantry sections, in platoon fire and movement, or even by fireteams or individual soldiers, in the final stages of an assault.
Overwatch tactics and firing at the short halt were especially important in armoured warfare before modern tank gun stabilizers were developed, since moving tanks were unlikely to hit any target. Even in the most modern tanks, however, crews can locate and hit targets better when at a halt.

That's what I found. I'm posting because I thought it would be kind of cool/fun to play.

Maybe even add:
Any of your units which did not fire during your shooting phase and did not move during your turn may take a leadership test. If they pass, they may fire at an enemy unit which moves into its line of sight during the opponent's movement phase. Normal restrictions apply. If your unit moved at all from the beginning of your last turn up until the enemy unit in question moved into its line of sight, then it may not shoot. This includes any and all movement (Tau jetpacks in the assault phase, moving your vehicle, getting tank shocked, psychic abilities...)

But tell me, is this suggestion even worth playing a casual game with it just to see how things play out? Would you do it?

I played during the days of overwatch. I would REALLY rather not ever do it again. It was needlessly cumbersome and was a huge slow-down to the game in general.

"ok I'll move here"
"Wait! Please show me the path you take to get there so I can see if my overwatchers can see you as you move"
"<sigh> ok. I started here, now I'm moving...can you see me yet? how 'bout now? Now? How 'bout here? Almost done moving...did you see it?"
"Yep, I think I saw him as he went past the window, move him back an inch?"
"Here?"
"Nah, back another half inch"
"Here?"
"Ok yeah, leave him there a sec, getting my laser pointer....Nope, can't see him. Ok, go ahead and move the next guy in the squad now, but I need to see the path again"
<repeat 8 more times for a tactical squad>


Yeah, that's an extreme example, but I've seen it happen.

Yep, I was the one telling Lormax to move his guys back and forth and pulling out my laser pointer. It was a huge pain in the butt.

The other thing that really sucked was Turn 1: my entire army goes on over watch....your turn. Turn 1 for opponent: my entire army goes on over watch since if I move anything, you're going to shoot it...your turn.

Overwatch made the move from cover to cover tactic undoable since the enemy could always just go on over watch and shoot you as you moved around. Furthermore is completely eliminated assault units from being useful at all since they could never get to where they could assault since things would always be shooting them on the way in and there was no way around it.

So yah, overwatch, while possibly realistic, makes for a really really bad game mechanic.

Perhaps a compromise would be something like the stand and shoot charge reaction used in WFB. The charging unit would still have to recieve some shooting attacks as they charged, but only one.

ignoreme

warpcrafter wrote:Perhaps a compromise would be something like the stand and shoot charge reaction used in WFB. The charging unit would still have to recieve some shooting attacks as they charged, but only one.

While I like the idea in theory, it seems like it would be problamatic in practice. The reason it works out well in fantasy is that most units don't shoot, the ones that do suck in hand to hand, and shooting (in general) isn't very strong. In 40k, everything shoots (just about) shooting is just as (if not more so) deadly as hand to hand and there are a fair amount of units that are reasonably good at both. As things stand now, getting into assault range is a long walk (or ride) through a hail of fire. Getting shot again on your way in to charge would really cripple most assault units. The only way I can possibly see this working out well would be if you could only fire with a very limited number of weapons (like only with pistols), you were limited to a single shot per model regardless of how many shots their weapons could normaly fire, and if shooting caused the squad not to get any attacks in that round of hand to hand (although any stand and shoot deaths would count as hand to hand casualties). Anything more powerful would mean that assault just wouldn't work.

[cringe]

Overwatch slows the game, isn't fun, rewards inactive / passive / static play, punishes active / aggressive / mobile play. And it isn't even particularly realistic.

Please, let's not go back to overwatch. While it's fine for skirmish games like Necromunda, it has no real place in mass battle games like 40k.

I agree with JohnHwang here. I played in the days of 2nd ed and overwatch frustrated me to no end. It does lead to a very static game when played en masse and it's my belief that it was a rule intended primarily for sniping units like rangers, scouts, and ratlings.

I think the propose rule amendment from Phoenix would help overwatch work a bit more reliably and keep it from bogging down game play. If units were only allowed to take the Ld test for overwatch shots at the end of the movement phase, after all units have moved, this would prevent the dithering of model movement described above. Your models are either in line of sight or out of line of sight of the waiting units.

The problem is that overwatch is hard to represent accurately in larger scale games like 40K without slowing the game to a snail's pace. Suppression or pinning better reflects the effects of incoming fire on squads...

A "Suppressing Fire" USR might be a better option as an alternate form of overwatch: designate a field of fire (perhaps represented by an objective marker/token), target building/terrain, or vehicle within range of the squad. If an enemy unit moves within X" (defined by the number of units in the squad?) of the target, make a Ld test for the watching squad to allow it to make an immediate shooting attack to test for pinning [EDIT] and be at -1 Attack, -1 Initiative until the beginning of the next turn [end EDIT]. Make it allowable for Troop and Heavy Support selections only.