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2000 - 149 Models
Doctrines
Drop Troops
Heavy Weapon Squads
Special Weapon Squads
Rough Riders
Veterans

Head Quarters - 567
81 Heroic Senior Officer with Standard Bearer (5 Models)
54 Spec Wpn w Demo and Flamer (6 Models)*
54 Spec Wpn w Demo and Flamer (6 Models)*
60 Sentinal Hvy Flamer and Improved Comms (1 Model)*

110 Schaffer and Kage (2 Model)*
78 3 Last Chancers with Melta Gun (3 Model)*
130 5 Last Chancers with Demo Charge (5 Model)*

Troops - 572
80 Junior Officer with 4 Plasma Gunners (5 Models)*
85 10 Man LasCannon Squad (10 Models)
85 10 Man LasCannon Squad (10 Models)
36 5 Guardsmen with 1 flamer (5 Models)*

80 Junior Officer with 4 Plasma Gunners (5 Models)*
85 10 Man LasCannon Squad (10 Models)
85 10 Man LasCannon Squad (10 Models)
36 5 Guardsmen with 1 flamer (5 Models)*

Elite - 186
75 Vet Sgt 4 Vets 3 melta guns (5 Models)*
75 Vet Sgt 4 Vets 3 melta guns (5 Models)*
36 DH Inq BP CCW Krak Grenades 2 Mystics (3 Models)

Fast Attack - 165
55 Rough Riders w/ Hunting Lances (5 Models)
55 Rough Riders w/ Hunting Lances (5 Models)
55 Rough Riders w/ Hunting Lances (5 Models)

Heavy - 510
80 Junior Officer with 4 Plasma Gunners (5 Models)*
80 Fire Support 3 Heavy Bolter Teams (6 Models)

80 Junior Officer with 4 Plasma Gunners (5 Models)*
80 Fire Support 3 Heavy Bolter Teams (6 Models)

80 Junior Officer with 4 Plasma Gunners (5 Models)*
110 Anti-Tank 3 Lascannon Teams (6 Models)

* Means i intend on Deepstriking these models

Playtesting has gone well.. the most recent modification to my list was removal of lascannons and hvy bolters for the flaming squads.

Butcher it. No comments will go unconsidered.

I can't imagine why you are bringing the non-elite IG with the regular IG. Rough Riders make me laugh.

I wager I can double or triple your downrange shots, and still have decent deep strike units available.

Gotta try again.

Well laugh at them all you want, but they are 10 str 5 init 5 power weapon attacks per squad that are excelelnt counter assault or fire re-direction squads.. my buddy that has played ig for 4 years never tried them and we used ot laugh at them thinking they were absurd.. but those 15 guys are the best 165 points spent in my list. I have cleaned terminator squads off the table using them and ravenwing squads.. now in 5th i stand a good chance of killing most tanks with them as well. If i were you i would play test them a bit before you discount them completely. My 5 plasma squads are to disrupt objectives and to wipe off the table hardened targets. anyone ever fought against 3x5 destroyers as IG? well i clean them off the table.

My "elite" as in vets and last chancers are to deal with the really nasty targets and count as scoring units. meltas hitting on 3 yes please especially when i am infiltrating/outflanking or deepstriking.

This list is about managing your enemy before you pop up and hit him with my suicide squads.

Flamers are new as is sthe entinal.. i usually have two more hvy bolter squads and a lascannon squad in their place.. but in 5th ed flamers rule the field. and i needed to manage hordes a bit better.

but i commend your attempt to school me without producing anything. lets see your list and i will submit to your wisdom.

personally i think 4 flamers
1 heavy flamer
7 demo packs
20 plasma guns
9 melta guns
7 lascannons
6 heavy bolters
30 str 5 init 5 power weapon attacks is pretty nifty especially when the mystics allow me to pop off shots at drop pods monoliths and terminators as they come too close..

but lets see your 2k... or atleast give me better info then you have..

Hey Stelek, why don't you offer a suggestion rather than your typical arrogant nonsense.

BYE

I wasn't being arrogant. I didn't have time to rewrite the list. I will try to tomorrow.

If you think RR will survive long enough to counter charge anything in 5E without some tanks to hide behind, you and HBMC can both get on the crazy train, ok?

Hellhounds are the best thing in the IG army right now, and you have precisely zero of them.

so your input is rough riders die easy. got it.. my 55 point units of 5 guys can be easily killed. and you believe i need to replace them with hellhounds.

3 squads of 5 that can assault up to 24" with str 5 init 5 in an IG army for 165

or a single tank armor 12 with a nasty template and hull mounted bolter for 115.

I look forward to your list.

Stelek wrote:I wasn't being arrogant.

I find that impossible.

Stelek wrote:If you think RR will survive long enough to counter charge anything in 5E without some tanks to hide behind, you and HBMC can both get on the crazy train, ok?

I didn't actually mention the RR's at all, so I don't know where you'd be pulling this comment from, other than your ass. Must be quite a skill to be able to pull stuff from and talk out of your ass at the same time.

Anyway, I look forward to you actually helping this person later.

BYE

Only thing I see is that you might be handing out four plus saves left and right with this list. Granted the board is big but placement is one of the tactics I have used for a long time. Over all your list looks great but you could be packing the field with to many bodies which might bring about the four plus save.

I myself have though about including RR because of what they have to offer. Granted they are going to die after that but the impact on the charge is what your hoping to get ie like the rest of this list.


Really wish you could include a hood in this army with an ld of 10 but it would change your format.

Best of luck

Here ya go.

Note my version is BS4 or autohit, and I deploy after you do even if I go second except for the Sisters and Hellhounds, of course. Those are gonna be in the middle of the board no matter what anyway. lol

2000 Pts - Imperial Guard Roster

0 Command Platoon @ 68 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [68] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [18] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry; Lasgun (x1); Flamer (x3)

4 Hardened Veterans @ 75 Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun (x1); Meltagun (x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun

4 Hardened Veterans @ 75 Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun (x1); Meltagun (x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun

4 Hardened Veterans @ 75 Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun (x1); Meltagun (x3)
1 Veteran Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Drop Troops; Lasgun

0 Last Chancers @ 537 Pts
1 Colonel Schaeffer @ [75] Pts
Bionics; Carapace Armour; Macharian Cross; Medallion Crimson; Plasma Pistol; Power Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Kage @ [35] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
9 Last Chancers @ [427] Pts
Lasgun (x9); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
1 Specialist @ [41] Pts
Lascannon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

1 Hellhound @ 115 Pts
Inferno Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

1 Hellhound @ 115 Pts
Inferno Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

1 Hellhound @ 115 Pts
Inferno Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

1 Heavy Weapons Platoon @ 338 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [68] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [18] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry; Lasgun (x1); Flamer (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [90] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [90] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [90] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)

1 Heavy Weapons Platoon @ 338 Pts
0 Command Squad @ [68] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry
1 Junior Officer @ [40] Pts
Drop Troops; Light Infantry; Close Combat Weapon; Laspistol
4 Guardsmen @ [18] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x1); Flamer (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [90] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [90] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)
6 Mortar Squad @ [90] Pts
Light Infantry; Lasgun (x3); Mortar (x3)

9 Battle Sisters Squad [WH] @ 149 Pts
Bolter (x7); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior [WH] @ [30] Pts
Bolter; Book of St. Lucius

Total Roster Cost: 2000

I would love to play your list.

I would set my lines squads and heavy weapon teams up in rows leaving only 2" between them in order to prevent you from deepstriking into my lines without first clearing out large portions.. with single man density front lines to provide cover for the rear squads. standard infantry line block formation (yes i know he has sick amount of mortar fire but i want my cover saves and only 1/2 my army is susceptible to his mortar fire the rest comes deepstriking in.

I have at my disposal against this particular list:
5 different deepstriking flamer squads 1 hvy and 2 squads have str 8 ap2 demo charges large blasts
5 other deepstriking squads 2 man units (fit in tight places) armed with demo charges and 3 melta kage and schaffer (if any hell hounds exist and are a concern i would drop the melta demo combos close to them or 3 melta and a demo on it.
2 vet melta squads (hell hound hunters)

Your List

96 models with 3 tanks in total.

3 dropping flamer squads<---Inq mystic

3 Hell hounds<---2nd most dangerous thing in your army my melta squads would be deployed to deal with them in the event my 7 lascannons in 5 squads didn't take care of them in advance.

3 dropping melta squads (worthless against my army since no armor)<---Inq mystic

9 lascannons (also pretty worthless against my army<--- last thing i kill..least priority.

6 squads of 6 man mortar teams.<-- 1st priority main army focuses on killing these

1 sisters of battle squad<-- 3 rough riders go after these girl/ or the hell hounds if you put them close enough<-any one of the plasma squads would be able to wreck havoc on this unit. 2 would sel its fate... i have 5


Basic logistics.. i think you would seriously damage my lines with your initial attacks. I doubt your tanks would survive turn 2. the rest would be a matter of when reserves came in.. i would use my improved comms to make sure the type of DS unit i needed came in when i needed it.

I would enjoy this game immensely. i think your over confident in you mortars though. Just my opinion of course. of course i have almost 50 more guys on the table then you do. and most of the stuff you need to deal with you cant until i have already had a chance to deal with you. You would have priorities of my mystic, my HSO, my 3 RR oh and my Lascannons if you wanted to keep your tanks. so that is 8 units preoccupied.

I think it would be a fun battle but i think i could pull off a win if all things were equal (average dicerolls)

thank you for contributing your concepts it is definately an interesting and competitive lists i would see MEQ's shivering at the thought of dealing with this.

You do realize that since your army always sets up before me, you lose in a gunline battle, right?

ALWAYS.

So my entire army pummels 1/3 of your army to death. See, since you have so many guys, it's easy to force you to spread out. Then what?

Gonna run around?

I've no idea how your RR deal with Sisters sitting on ym objective, behind the rest of my army, but allright.

You do realize this list I posted isn't even an optimized list, just one I coughed up in 5 minutes?

Why would I deep strike meltagunners into your army that has no tanks? Do you mistake me for a nooblet? I assure you, I am not one. Those vets are speed bumps, cover saves, and that's it.

You should play 5E some, you wouldn't love playing this army in the slightest (cough no cover saves for the win).

Infiltrating gunline guard beat non-infiltrating gunline guard every single time.

Is Steleks list even legal? Can't use an ally to satisfy the 2 troop requirement and only troops I see are the last chancers and the sisters. Something I am missing?

Last Chancers over a count of 16 total models = 1 HQ and 2 troops.

Stelek wrote:You do realize that since your army always sets up before me, you lose in a gunline battle, right?

ALWAYS.

So my entire army pummels 1/3 of your army to death. See, since you have so many guys, it's easy to force you to spread out. Then what?

Gonna run around?

I've no idea how your RR deal with Sisters sitting on ym objective, behind the rest of my army, but allright.

You do realize this list I posted isn't even an optimized list, just one I coughed up in 5 minutes?

Why would I deep strike meltagunners into your army that has no tanks? Do you mistake me for a nooblet? I assure you, I am not one. Those vets are speed bumps, cover saves, and that's it.

You should play 5E some, you wouldn't love playing this army in the slightest (cough no cover saves for the win).

Infiltrating gunline guard beat non-infiltrating gunline guard every single time.

okay well technically i only have to field rough riders and my INQ... but i would not spread them out. your three tanks are what dissallow cover saves... I can deepstrike everything else just like you.. my point is you have 3 tanks and your mortar squads that are dangerous.. everything else is pretty much smeg against my list.

I have been playtesting this and other variants fo this list for a couple of months now. i think my 5 flaming and 7 demo chagres are going to clean you off the table and my lascannons and melta will make short order of your tanks.

I propose something to you. take a close look at my list and yours and play through setup options. light infantry is nice dont get me wrong.. but it can be neautralized by me simply dropping in on you instead. i wouldn't wholely do that because i dont care how ravaging your first round or two will be.. i am confident once my 17 designated deepstriking units come on the table things will quickly equalize.

I applaud your confidence. Thanks for your time and advice.

I own a list like yours. Played it for years. There's nothing inherently wrong with it.

Except it can be defeated by deep strike defense.

See, once I know you are dropping (I will know before I setup my army) I can setup to stop it.

If I was going to run this army in a tournament, I'd have the DH elite to stop deep strikers.

Then what? My answer is, you are in for a world of hurt because I have 48" range and you have 12" (or less!).

You are welcome to deep strike outside of 18", but then...shouldn't you have just started on the table anyway?

See, I learned a long time ago that at tournaments it's worth burning one hardened vet squad for the DH elite unit, because you can stop most deep strikers just by having that unit around.

I guess my point is, since I've played the mortar heavy list versus the deep strike list I have, the mortars smoke 6 of your deep strike units a turn WITHOUT the DH. Yes, really. What's really amusing is when you have the DH, and you fire the mortars at a just landed unit. Hey, you're dead. Since I have 6, it's pretty much impossible for it to be otherwise.

You should give it a shot. Mortars vs IG = funny. DH Inq + Mortars vs IG dropping = very funny. Far as I know, I'm the only dip that's done it at a GT. That was with just one mortar unit, to see if I could make it work. Now that there are no partial hits, and scatter is reduced? Yes please. lol

Mortars?

5th Ed has made them hit less, and nothing will change the fact that they're worse than a bolter when it comes to wounding things.

So why in the Emperor's name would you take 18 of the blasted things.

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Mortars?

5th Ed has made them hit less, and nothing will change the fact that they're worse than a bolter when it comes to wounding things.

So why in the Emperor's name would you take 18 of the blasted things.

BYE

so what do you think of the Lascannons in my list... the main reason i am fielding them is to discourage deepstriking monoliths.. but after revieiwing the math for dropping a monolith i am seriously questioning them.. i am thinkign another squad of vets and heavy bolters might be a better expenditure.. but then again lascannons are also good for monsterous creatures and what not..

hrmm what are your thoughts?

Mortars are S4, so are Bolters. I missed something made them S3?

5E makes them hit MORE than in 4E.

4E you scatter, no reduction in scatter distance.

4E you partial, gotta roll 4+ to hit.

What am I missing? I told you months ago that mortars were viable.

They really are. So are GL, though to a lesser extent (they are S3).

Guard need to be FAR from the enemy, not close. Guard lose CC in huge bad ways, and get run off the board if they run up to them.

Even a Tau charge will send guard off, and that's not a good thing ya know!

wow a tau charge will send guard off? i dropped 3 plasma squads into a tau objective and nearly beat and shot them to death 2 crisis squads shadows sun with retinue drone thingy's and a full squad of firewarriors and 1/2 a squad of kroot. anyway all i am saying is the more i playtest this list i fine tune it a bit but overall i think 3 rr squads 5 plasma gun squads and the last chancers demo goodness


i have played 7 games and drawn 2 of them i have not actual lost a game yet.

including a KP game against deathwing/ravenwing combo which btw my rough riders did an excelelnt job in stopping a termy assault cold in its tracks.

moral to the story.. is tell me how to improve my list..
not what you think is great about yours.

Are you suggesting i turn all my HB in mortar squads? Or are you exclusively suggesting i play your list?

Tau charge guard:

Guard get 1 attack, hit on 3+ wound on 4+, Tau save on 4+.

Tau get 2 attacks, hit on 4+, wound on 4+, Guard save on 5+.

I probably wouldn't actually charge Guard with Tau, since I can shoot them dead...but if I felt the need, I wouldn't be afraid of Guard.

I don't know how to explain to you that plasma guns are out in 5E, and that seems to be your big thing. Play 180 Orks, see yourself get swallowed in a tide of green. Or any horde army really. You can tell me it's awesome against hordes, but I know better having played an army like this against a horde and coming off the worse for it.

All that high strength weaponry is precisely what GW put the 4+ cover save in for.

If all you manage to kill with your plasma is 2 orks, well, you should see how that works and why it's "bad".

I have to like Stelek here. While Rough Riders may be good, they don't belong in an IG list. Once your units get charged, you hope that your unit breaks and you own the snot out of them next turn with your shooting. Flamers are good for that. Heck, Lasguns are good for that. For 165 points, you could buy more guns.

Stelek is also right when it comes to mortars. Orks, Nids, or anything in great number will die to a rain of explosive shells. Even MEQs will have a hard time standing up to them.

and that is why i have 5 squads of plasma 4 flamer squads 7 demo charges and 3 meltas along with my regular linemen.

I have considered dropping one of the plasma guns in each squad for a flamer to add more templates but then the plasma squads become less efficent at doing what they are tooled to do.. which is break heavy squads... destroyers, terminators, wraithguard plague marines, grey knights, space marines etc.. they break tough hard hitting units into more managable units. at 400 points they are a bit costly but i also get 2 scoring/contesting units and 3 contesting units out of it to boot.

Oh and RR are good mob control.. smashing in with 30 str 5 init 5 attacks with a charge range of up 24" is excellent way to manage targets.

and grant 4+ saves for long range shooting has yet to make a serious difference.. i grants save all the time more or less only my HB have a chance not to.. which is why i use systematic methodical fire control to eliminate threats until they are no longer threats.

if tau want to assault my deepstriking units after i rapid fire them with 8 str 7 ap 2 shots and a las pistol... be my guest.. in my experience we usually end up sitting in combat a round or two.. in there home ground or at their objective. Denying your enemy their goals is the second order of battle.. (after achieving your own of course)

Which is the only reason i have a sentinel at all btw. to have some control over when certain squads come in.


thanks again for your input. I agree any specialized force extreme.. horde or brute squad will give me difficulties.. but i also think i am prepared to deal with all eventualities with this list. whereas before (without any flamers) I think i would have been mowed over by hordes counting on 6 more HB to win the day.

In a year, you won't see armies with those heavy units in them, odinspear. The game has been redesigned around them, and they aren't welcome anymore.

I don't think horde armies are specialized, I think they are the norm that GW is accepting and making the game system for.

Oh great Seer o'Metagame Stelek! Please tell us of this grand future that you alone have seen. We suffer every moment that we are bereft of your magnificant wisdom.

(/sarcasm)

The book's been out less than a month. It's premature to be saying what will be around in a year and what won't. Moreover, for the time being at least, people (except for Seer Stelek, the Prophet of Change) will continue to use what's familiar with them, so for a while army lists will have little changes until people get used to the new systems.

Moreoever Marines, and therefore MEQ's, will remain the most popular army, regarless of how the rules change, and Plasma Guns still work agains them, cover save or no cover save. It's not like Marines were standing in the open in 4th.

BYE