Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

When a Farseer comes on from reserves (or Dawn of War Deployment) can he cast fortune in the same turn? My take is no, based on the Chaos FaQ about warptime, but I was hoping to find something a little more concrete to support my argument.

My vote is no, it's got a range, where do you measure from?

Just like BA can't use overcharged engines the turn they come onto the board

I've had this come up in 3 different games, and both players agreed every time that it could not be done.

It should be no because of timing, right? Don't eldar things happen before the movement phase? Reserves very clearly come on during the movement phase now as opposed to just a nebulous start of the turn.

I agree with all the posts, however I am looking for something more concrete than "the guys on Dakka say so." Obviously the situation is not as clear cut as we want to believe because GW took the time to write out in their FaQ what happens when Chaos casters move on from reserves with start of turn powers. My desire is to find something in the rules that makes this as clear cut as that!

I haven't looked at the chaos FAQ yet to see what they said about warptime, but I would second (third, fourth?) what others have said.

You won't find any specific rule that plainly states you can't do this, however just reading the exixting rules gives us the following indications.

The Eldar codex says that Farseer powers are used at the beginning of the turn.

The basic rule book says that reserves are rolled for and enter at the beginning of the movement phase.

The beginning of the turn is somewhat different from the beginning of the movement phase, therefore the farseer isn't around to use his power.

That's the best you are going to get. As an Eldar player I don't see any way around it, even though it makes little (logical) sense that the farseer wouldn't prepare his troops for battle on the turn they arrive. Then again 40k =/= logic.

think of a farseer that is already on the board.

Can he move, then cast fortune?
If not, then he can't move onto the board and then cast fortune.

As its a power that is used at the start of the eldar turn and as the farseer at this time is not on the table then I would say no.

The start of the turn is after all before reserve rolls as reserve rolls are by definition part of the movement phase.

In short the farseer would have to use the power while off the table from where the 6" distance is impossible to decide.

In short no, he can not use the fortune psykic power the turn he arrives.

Kyrolon wrote:The Eldar codex says that Farseer powers are used at the beginning of the turn.

The basic rule book says that reserves are rolled for and enter at the beginning of the movement phase.

Not all farseer powers are used at the start of the turn. However, fortune IS used at the start of the turn, therefore you cannot use it if the farseer has to move on to the board. This isn't a case of "the Dakka guys saying so", as it is explicitly stated in the 'dex. This comes up frequently as I am absent minded and often forget to use fortune until I've started my movement phase. I will ask my opponent if I can still cast fortune and usually they're cool with it, however, it is perfectly reasonable to refuse that, as if you play "the rules according to hoyle", I have to use that power in movement phase.

Grignard wrote:

Kyrolon wrote:The Eldar codex says that Farseer powers are used at the beginning of the turn.

The basic rule book says that reserves are rolled for and enter at the beginning of the movement phase.

Not all farseer powers are used at the start of the turn. However, fortune IS used at the start of the turn, therefore you cannot use it if the farseer has to move on to the board. This isn't a case of "the Dakka guys saying so", as it is explicitly stated in the 'dex. This comes up frequently as I am absent minded and often forget to use fortune until I've started my movement phase. I will ask my opponent if I can still cast fortune and usually they're cool with it, however, it is perfectly reasonable to refuse that, as if you play "the rules according to hoyle", I have to use that power in movement phase.

Well, at least it's good to know that I'm not the only one that forgets to cast fortune. Fortunately (no pun intended, really) my opponent doesn't mind as long as I do it before it's required for anything.

And yes, I thought it went without saying that the shooting powers would be usable as they are used later in the turn, but thank you for clarifying it.

Somnicide wrote:It should be no because of timing, right? Don't eldar things happen before the movement phase? Reserves very clearly come on during the movement phase now as opposed to just a nebulous start of the turn.

This would be correct. Fortune very specificaly happens as the first thing on the eldar players turn. At this point, reserves (which specifically happen in the movement phase) have not been rolled and the farseer is not on the board. Thus, he can't use it. Same goes for guide and doom.

Grignard wrote:Not all farseer powers are used at the start of the turn. However, fortune IS used at the start of the turn, therefore you cannot use it if the farseer has to move on to the board. This isn't a case of "the Dakka guys saying so", as it is explicitly stated in the 'dex. This comes up frequently as I am absent minded and often forget to use fortune until I've started my movement phase. I will ask my opponent if I can still cast fortune and usually they're cool with it, however, it is perfectly reasonable to refuse that, as if you play "the rules according to hoyle", I have to use that power in movement phase.

One thing you have to realize here is that there is a huge diffrence between being allowed to skip back and redo somthing you forgot and being allowed to do somthing you should not be able to do at all.

I am usually very allowing with people forgetting stuff, I tend to do it too and ask for such leniency too, if they are cool with it then I am happy and if they say no thats part of the game I dont fret too much over it, after all I only have myself to blame

I would however in such an ocation not allow you to cast fortune from your "moved" position likewise not on a unit that has moved from out of to inside range.

Thus in short... if you suddenly realize after you have moved your farseer onto the table that you forgot to cast fortune I would not allow it... well with one possible exeption, I would actually allow the farseer to cast it on himself, after all we I think we can all agree that he will always be within range of himself.
Naturally this meens he would in extention be able to cast it on a unit he has joined "off table", it is after all allowed under the 5th edition rules.

This last part is naturally my own opinion and as far as I know not suported ither way according to the rules.

fester wrote:

Grignard wrote:Not all farseer powers are used at the start of the turn. However, fortune IS used at the start of the turn, therefore you cannot use it if the farseer has to move on to the board. This isn't a case of "the Dakka guys saying so", as it is explicitly stated in the 'dex. This comes up frequently as I am absent minded and often forget to use fortune until I've started my movement phase. I will ask my opponent if I can still cast fortune and usually they're cool with it, however, it is perfectly reasonable to refuse that, as if you play "the rules according to hoyle", I have to use that power in movement phase.

One thing you have to realize here is that there is a huge diffrence between being allowed to skip back and redo somthing you forgot and being allowed to do somthing you should not be able to do at all.

I am usually very allowing with people forgetting stuff, I tend to do it too and ask for such leniency too, if they are cool with it then I am happy and if they say no thats part of the game I dont fret too much over it, after all I only have myself to blame

I would however in such an ocation not allow you to cast fortune from your "moved" position likewise not on a unit that has moved from out of to inside range.

Thus in short... if you suddenly realize after you have moved your farseer onto the table that you forgot to cast fortune I would not allow it... well with one possible exeption, I would actually allow the farseer to cast it on himself, after all we I think we can all agree that he will always be within range of himself.
Naturally this meens he would in extention be able to cast it on a unit he has joined "off table", it is after all allowed under the 5th edition rules.

This last part is naturally my own opinion and as far as I know not suported ither way according to the rules.

Well, yes, I mean forgetting to cast on something that was originally in range. Moving 6 inches over and "forgetting" to fortune those wraithguard 12 inches away from your original position is cheating.