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I'm most likely playing my Nids for ard boyz, but it's still up in the air between that and my mech blood angels. So any way there's an iron hands player that no one in our FLGS can beat, the tactic i've come up with is kill the rhinos and swarm the infantry but that still doesn't work to great effect.

Here is his list...

HQ
The "iron father" tech marine

Eleits
3 Dreadnaughts- assult cannons smoke extra armor tank hunters venerable

Troops
5 10 man Tacticals power weapon/fist melta/flamer/plasma depending on each squad each rhino has smoke and extra armor

Heavy
3 Dreadnaught- TL Laz Cannons smoke extra armor taank hunters venerable

He runs it like an armored spearhead that doesn't die and it overwhelms the opponent with armor. So how should I beat it.

Horde him up and watch his dreads play patty cake with your hormies and or Guants WON. Then slowly remove the threats with the rest of your army. Easy..


Depeding on set up, he could be 18 to 24" away which gives you all the time in the world to remove threats. The dreads really dont have much to offer but range so the main threat is the rhino and tach units. He is more than likely playing a fire base with the techmarine for the dreads. So use something to assault it from the rear or sides that is fast move and or just focus on the front end of the charge, the tactical marines.

You cant beat this with nids? My TMC's would have a field day with this

TMC's crush dreads. I played a Nidzilla list for a while and my favorite unit to kill was always dreads with carnies. Wounds are so much better than armor value in close combat.

Seriously. These are the kinds of lists I hope my all CC nidzilla face at the tourny.

Carnies may beat dreads in h2h but in the long run dreads have the advantage because they swing first and have a more powerful gun.

Gotta say, that is not a good 2500 pt list.

I am not sure that the list is even 2000 points.

@Cypher, why do you have to mention this after I sold my Nidz? I would have loved to have a carnie vs. dread bash with you.

cypher wrote:Carnies may beat dreads in h2h but in the long run dreads have the advantage because they swing first and have a more powerful gun.

Maybe a lascannon dread. The assault cannon wont do much to a heavy fex with carapace. A carnie with a VC will at least stop that dread from shooting every turn. Catalyst makes it so that the carnie still gets to swing even if the dread manages to kill it. The fex has more attacks. Its still not a good bet for the dread.

Darrian13 wrote:I am not sure that the list is even 2000 points.

@Cypher, why do you have to mention this after I sold my Nidz? I would have loved to have a carnie vs. dread bash with you.

as he wrote it, with a bare bones commander its 2226.

Dude, a 6 dread list with tactical squads in Rhinos is a target rich environment, but there are alot of armies that can punk this army.

Eldar, Tau, and Nids all come to mind as being able to overrun this army without much effort.

At least the ones I use.

where to start on how to kill that army? lol, you collect 1 army that specializes in armour killing

you can do what he does, and go heavy ie:

hive tyant
hive tyrant

fex
fex
fex

ripper swarms
ripper swarms

trygon

fex
fex
fex

thats just an amufing list, but might end up looking like swiss cheese

but on a serious note, if he keeps the dreads packed then it will be fun, take 2 fex's with toxin sacs, enhanced senses, and barbed stranglers.
that gives them a S7 oedinance blast each, your capable of killing anything up to an armour value of 13, and with large blasts you can hit a few dreads at a time, flood them with gaunts to handle the tac squads.
and, if you want real fun, take 3-5 raveners with talons and a trygon, deepstrike them behind enemy lines and crush anything in your way.

fast attack can be used for a unit of deep striking spore mines, use them to get in the way and bottle up units, who wants to run into an explosive wall?

termy squad landraider vindicator and multi melta land peeders and attack bikes.
tac squads with heacy bolters and plasma guns and power swords.
pound the armor with multimeltas vindicator and land raider to remove the threats.
thenwhen his guys get out the vindicator will have a loverly target.
the tac squads have more range them him so would be best held back a little to use the range.
When he gets to you he will be low on troops with luck so the power weapon will strick before his powerfist and withluck make a few kills.

I would just like to say that TARVALwould never beat any of the armies at my store with the attitude that you can sum up all opponents with dreads are EASY. If you live in south jersey.. stop in @ play all day and I will beat your butt all day long.

OMG I just read futher and STELEK, you talk like you lost some of your frontal lobe chewing gum and walking on a uneven cement side walk.

TARVAL?

devkat28 wrote:OMG I just read futher and STELEK, you talk like you lost some of your frontal lobe chewing gum and walking on a uneven cement side walk.

Are you serious? Learn some manners.

Stelek's statement was quite accurate. You're running a target-rich environment, meaning that everything in your list is viable and worthy of shooting at. Some armies can't handle that because they won't be able to stop valid threats from reaching them. However, many armies can. Tyranids would rip your dreadnoughts to shreds via Assault Tyrants, Assault Carnifex, or just overwhelming shots. AV12 isn't too terribly difficult to pierce even without the Venom Cannon, and they'd only have to worry about outright destroying the assault Dreads. The Lascannon Dreads can just be wrapped up forever in a swarm of Gaunts, happily swinging away.

Against Tau, insert Railgun/Plasma/Whatever here. Tau can and will outshoot your lascannon Dreads and your assault ones will never reach combat with the Crisis Suits.

Eldar would be worst of all. Your assault dreadnoughts would never catch their skimmers, Lances make short work of your dreads and rhinos, and then all you have are a few marines sitting out ready to be blasted or assaulted off of the board, depending on the brand of Eldar you're facing.

devkat28 wrote:OMG I just read futher and STELEK, you talk like you lost some of your frontal lobe chewing gum and walking on a uneven cement side walk.

You know, I'm the last person here who's going to go out of my way to agree with Stelek - but the six-dread list is a gimmick that's had its time and gone.

But if I know stelek, I'm about to be extremely amused here. Even when I'm disagreeing with Stelek, I'm impressed by his ability to wordsmith...

If you're going to criticize someone here, at least do everyone the courtesy of using proper grammar and addressing their arguments. And can the leetspeak.

cypher wrote:Carnies may beat dreads in h2h but in the long run dreads have the advantage because they swing first and have a more powerful gun.

Well,maybe you just forgot the meaning of 9+2D6.

erm, are these super dreads? just wondering how an assult cannon beats a weapon with a S7 ordinance blast.

take 3 fex's like that and chances are atleast more than 1 dread will die a turn, and whats an assult cannon going to do to a T7 beast with a 2+ save?

failing that take 2 hive tyrants and 3 zoathropes, give them all warp blast and just blow them to pieces.

so with 7 S10 AP1 shots and 2 S7 Ordinance shots im thinking its possible to wipe them out fairly quickly.

To all of you who have said that this is an easy army to beat you obviously havent played it. You are Forced to split your fire between vehicles to keep the majority of them in check.

Also 3 of the dreads have TL las cannons (sorry forgot to mention it)

If I tie up the dreads with WON gaunts then I lose just because I can't capture objectives at all after that.

The only armies I can see walking all over this list are 45 loota orks mech eldar and mech tau.

And for the man who said come to south jersey I live in central Jersey and go south for tournaments quite frequently and I have yet to see any dreadnaught lists there. But I will admit it's a very competitive area.

since no one ever mentions em as a possibility for losing too in discussions even though they won ard boys last year the necrons would have some fun with this list, 2 liths and 3 squads of heavy Ds minimum id run at 2500 will rip his tanks up, 3 lascannon shots from each squad of heavy ds will almost if not kill will lock down a tank a turn hitting on 3 glancing on 3 pen 4 on dreads and anything but a 1 pening his rhinos they will start dropping fast and being jetbikes can run at the same time, the liths will be annoying dropping blast templates that will either destroy tanks or his squads pretty easy and then regular destroyers slowly sopping up his troops or can be used to drop his rhinos since they glance on 4s while the heavy ds drop the dreads, and all of it is mobile enough to stay back

yermom wrote:To all of you who have said that this is an easy army to beat you obviously havent played it. You are Forced to split your fire between vehicles to keep the majority of them in check.

Also 3 of the dreads have TL las cannons (sorry forgot to mention it)

If I tie up the dreads with WON gaunts then I lose just because I can't capture objectives at all after that.

The only armies I can see walking all over this list are 45 loota orks mech eldar and mech tau.

And for the man who said come to south jersey I live in central Jersey and go south for tournaments quite frequently and I have yet to see any dreadnaught lists there. But I will admit it's a very competitive area.

3 lascannon are not a major threat to nids in a 2500 pts games.They can never shot down a single fex in one turn,don't they?

how are 3 lascannons a threat to a fex? 0_o
they would have to all hit and wound 3 turns in a row to kill one, and by then they will be scrap metal.

and before you start on again with the "To all of you who have said that this is an easy army to beat you obviously havent played it" i play my friend quite alot, and he uses an armoured company, so my nids get battered with atleast 10 battlecannon shots a turn + heavy bolter and lascannon fire, yet i can still win, i dont see how a few dreads even slow you down.

nid style - rush in, crush anything in your path, try and use cover to get there.

JD21290 wrote:how are 3 lascannons a threat to a fex? 0_o
they would have to all hit and wound 3 turns in a row to kill one, and by then they will be scrap metal.

and before you start on again with the "To all of you who have said that this is an easy army to beat you obviously havent played it" i play my friend quite alot, and he uses an armoured company, so my nids get battered with atleast 10 battlecannon shots a turn + heavy bolter and lascannon fire, yet i can still win, i dont see how a few dreads even slow you down.

nid style - rush in, crush anything in your path, try and use cover to get there.

Your math doesn't make scence 3 las cannon hits 3 las cannon wounds 3 wounds on a fex 1 wound left how is it that 3 turns of 3 las cannons will kill 1? The las cannons are twin linked therefore will most likely hit 3 times wound 3 times and cause 3 wounds. Now if the storm bolters don't do the last wound then a 4th dread firing it's assult cannon should put the beast down. Now by the time I get my gaunts to tie up a dreadnaught he has probably dropped my flyrant and 1 dakkafex. So I charge into a dread with 2 fex's he goes first hits on 3's wounds on 2's thats half a fex. I swing 4 attacks 2 hits 2 pens shaken/stunned (extra armor so shaken and destroyed he will have me re roll my destroyed and ill probably shake it. Keep in mind my gaunts are in combat with dreads kepping him from butt raping my other 3 fex's that are working on their own dreads so he's got about 50 marines that can get out and rapidfire/charge my hormigaunts so I don't have objectives anymore and by staying away from board edges he avoids stealers. Then my WON gaunts come back from stalling the dreads but look ther'e's no synapse because that half a company's worth of marines has been busy getting rid of all my synapse. HIS LIST ISN'T THE MOST DAMAGING IT'S JUST GOOD AT TIEING UP THE ENEMY AND DISABLING THE ENEMY ARMY. WHILE IT CAPTURES OBJECTIVES!

One of my friends also runs an armored company it's very easy to beat that. It's called running carnifexs on rear armor and out flanking genestealers. So if I wanted to know how to beat an armored company I would have asked.

Almost everybody has said it should be easy for nids just charge in and kill his entire army. It doesn't work like that believe it or not nid players use TACTICS!

Sorry if I sound angry I don't mean to.

dont forget that a fex can have regeneration, if its behind cover then thats a factor, and thats if it still can be shot atall. A re-roll to hit doesent mean you will never miss.
with upgrades a fex can be T7, so the lascannon wont allways wound, and from previous experiences of playing nids (for the last 3 years) ive never had a fex killed by such a small ammount of fire.

then i would say your friend deserves to lose if he leaves the rear of his tank open to a fex, that is not the best idea, and means he has ignored it running towards him.

instead of gaunts try stealers, with rending claws its possible to kill a vehicle, with new rules they can run aswell making them cover the distance quicker.

a trygon popping up between 3 dreads is allways fun, it should easilt kill all 3 in less than 2 rounds of combat, and due to the lack of attacks from dreads it will survive.

and what you described is a tactic, its called swarming.

ok, easy win, a winged tyrant is a good start. a venom cannon only causes glancing hits, so give him 2 sets of talons for max attacks, hold him back in cover untill he can get a good charge on a dread, maybe a broodlord with a small unit of stealers, backed up by more stealers.

a unit of 5 raveners with scything talons can be used to spring up next to a tactical squad.

a trygon is the best unit for causing mayhem, just use him to thin out the dread count.

a unit of winged warriors will also be good for backing up the flyrant.

a few zoanthropes simply for the 2+ save and S10 warp blast.

2-3 lictors to be used once again as scare tactics.

with the remaining points just get a fex or 2.

that should hit the points limit.

tyrant + guard + lash whips = dead dreads. Heavy fex's = dead dreads.

Learn to use cover. Spinegaunts in front, tyrant and guard behind, and fex's behind that. Your a little slower with the fex's behind but your much more survivable.

3 lascannons and 3 assault cannons arent much against nidzilla. I play all CC nidzilla and fought an ard boyz warm up today against my friends salamanders with 4 lascannons, 12 missile launchers, 2 multimeltas and 3 vindicators. That wasnt enough to kill what i had. The guns on those dreads definately arent either.

Any nid MC will kill a dread in CC. Take lash whips and catalyst on your tyrants. Take WS and miasma on your fex's. Catalyst the fex's so even if he does kill it it still gets to hit. Miasma and WS makes him hit you on 4's and you hit him on 3's. Tyrants will just destroy dreads.

Hell even stealers can kill dreads.

... you know i can't actualy make a tyranids list for 2200p+ that could lose against this army ... hell even if i was mad and took 192 gaunts wth toxin sacs, spine fist and without number (2112p) the dreds would still fall just through shear weight of numbers (probably taking tyranid warrior broods for Synapse+HQ)

Easy list to beat.

JD21290 wrote:instead of gaunts try stealers, with rending claws its possible to kill a vehicle, with new rules they can run aswell making them cover the distance quicker.

When were Genestealers not able to fleet? Unless you're referring to the Broodlord and company I guess...