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tokugawa wrote:

cypher wrote:Carnies may beat dreads in h2h but in the long run dreads have the advantage because they swing first and have a more powerful gun.

Well,maybe you just forgot the meaning of 9+2D6.

Tokugawa is correct S9+2d6 makes short work of even AV 14 vehicles.


btw I love your avatar Tokugawa

I run the 6 Venerable Dreads... and I wouldn't field it above 1750. Too much bad stuff happens above that, and you lose a lot of your heavy-punch slots to the Dreads, which DO NOT have the monster-mash capability of a Nidzilla list.

This is gonna be a 1st round loser.

6 Ven Dreads just irritates the other guy.

Kill your Rhinos, kill the troops. Then throw your army away keeping the dreads away from your one objective with your one troop on it.

Win.

It isn't that it's a horrible list, it isn't. It's just that Dreads are difficult to provide cover to, they NEED AV13 to be deadly (See Defiler vs Soulgrinder) and they need to be able to bring a second, decent weapon and NOT lose their power fist.

Until then, Dreads are crap even though for years they are the only Imperial vehicles I've ever owned or used with any regularity.

In 5th, where a lascannon can drop your dread but doesn't do much to other vehicles...that's BAD.

Also, venerable is NOT a holo-field. If you don't like the result, re-roll can give you the same or worse. That's not a win-win situation, that's a lose-lose situation.

Venerable is just how ALL dreads should be, not some stupid ability you have to "buy". Dreads are dangerous only in numbers but they cost you your elite AND heavy slots, and don't get me started on chaos dreads/defilers.

You can run noobs over with this army. Don't take that the wrong way, it's ok to be a noob. Everyone was one once. You will figure out that bringing your heavy anti-tank is going to be standard in a balanced 5th edition list, and that will spell the doom of this army.

Allrighty?

"When were Genestealers not able to fleet? Unless you're referring to the Broodlord and company I guess... "


got it in 1
the rest can fleet, but this new 5th ed gives tyranid real speed, might even make orks jealous


and if this army list scares someone so much i might have to make a slightly diff. one

chapter master
10 man tac
10 man tac
3 ven dreads
3 landraiders

i think landraiders are a bigger problem than dreads, still easily killed by nids, but throw out alot more firepower.

Hey Yermon, Why don't you tell us what your using? and how he beats you. Cause most of the people are right, theres no way that he could beat you with just his armored stuff. But everyone, with the exception of a few, seem to be ignoring the 50 marines. if they have flamers and some nasty sergeants then those rapid fire weapons could tear up your gaunts while the marines provide meat shields for the sergeants while they take on th big beasties.

Yeah it seems that most are ignoring the 50 Marines... also, They seem to miss that the Dreads and Rhinos have smoke. My guess for the Marine player is... Turn 1: Rhino Rush and Pop Smoke. The Rush closes the gap and smoke keeps the shooting down. Turn 2: Unload, grab objectives, and pop smoke. Now you have 50 CC marines between you and both the Dreads and objectives. Unless you get lucky enough to move first, you could wind up in a tight situation especially in a low turn game.

My list is as followes

Tyrant- scything talons, lash whip bone sword, implant attack, adrenal glands (I) Toxin sacs, winged, warp field 212

Tyrant- 2 twin linked devourers, enhanced scenes, catalyst 111
2 Tyrant guard- lash whips 90

3 dakkafex's-2 twin linked devourers enhanced scences (113) 339

16 spine gaunts- WON 128

14 spinegaunts- WON 112

16 Hormies- toxin sacs adrenal glands (I) 208

14 Hormies- toxin sacs adrenal glands (I) 182

6 stealers- scuttlers feeder tendrils 120

6 stealers scuttlers feeder tendrils 120

3 warriors- wings scything talons rending claws 114

3 warriors- wings scything talons rending claws 114

16 gargoles 192

2 Sniperfex's- VC BS enhanced scences reinforced chitin (163) 326

2 zoanthropes- warp blast synapse 130 (if you can find room for a 3rd that would be great)

This is how a normal game goes he shoots my zoanthropes my flyrant and my warriors to remove synapse. Gaunts and gargoyles charge the dreads but i'm out of synapse so I flee torwards my walkrant. Fy fex''s walkrant and gaunts recharge the dreads and mess em up. He counter charges with the rest of is dreads and we fight in this cluster**** all game. Meanwhile his marines flame/ rapid fire my hormigaunts and they take the objectives. He stays away from the edge of the board so my stealers come on and they hve to weateher a turn of shooting. then my WON gaunts get killed and come back but look, intead of contesting the objective the marines are holding they flee back into combat torwards the tyrant.

HE WINS GOOD GAME...

your list is full of sub optimal choices. Gargoyles? Expensive hormies? Small winged warrior units? I think the problem is in your list.

Why are you charging dreads with gaunts out of synapse?

Get a second walking tyrant and give them both 3 guard. Have fun killing them with only 3 Lascannon shots a turn. Especially with a screen of spinegaunts.

Get more stealers. Broods of 6 are too small. 8-10 are optimal. remember they can start on the board if it puts them in a better position.

Edit: Have fun getting stomped by your friends 6 dreads.

Gargoyles are good at dirupting battle plans and tying up devestaters. Nobody expects to have units in your face turn 1 against tyranids. No one fields them because they're exspencive cash wise not because they're bad.

I find hormigaunts are good at tying up stuff early and with I 5 they can reliably kill it in 2 combat rounds.

I have the stealers in their because I love the psycoloical effects of it, and against someone who's trying reffused flank it may just win me the game. I'm trying to have my stealers not be a major setback if they come up on the wrong side of the board hence the min squads.

I find my list to be far from sub-par.

If you find your list to be 'far from sub-par', why are you asking for advice against a list that people consider weak?

Man I love people that come asking for help, and when it's given they want to argue about it.

I'll edit out my other post now, it's clearly not wanted.

Its not that his Nid line up is weak (altgough it could use a few tweaks get to that later) Ive seen him beat almost every other player hes gone up against (save for me). There is also another consideration that no body has mentioned yet and that is that this is a freakin expensive hobby! We cant all go out and buy trigons or baneblades or what have you. so we have to make do with what we can afford. But any way back to tackticks (please ignor spelling/grammer). with 6 fexs 3 of them have to be less than 115 points for force organisation so you dont have too many options there basicly dakka fexs or scything talons, how ever if you can take toxic miasma (lower enemy WS by1) and Adrenal glands +1 Ws this will give your Nidzillas a big advantage against practicly anything in CC. Also protect your dang synaps creatures, and you may want to consider getting rid of the flyrant alltogether. I've killed that thing so many tymes simply because your over eager to get it into combat it ends up at the fron of your army and is practicly the only target my dreds have so hold him back with the rest of your force until your sure you can charge with out getting the crap shot out of it. Oh and to whever said that assault cannons can't do much against Nidzilla it's called rending might want to look that one up. True its only on sixs but every now and then you get lucky and roll 3 or 4 and thats most of a fex right there. As far as useing nk you might try useing this with some gaunts rather than stealers. Use your scuttling gaunts to flank and hold objectives/enemy units till your stealers or fexes can get there to deal with them. For shooting venomcannons are good but can only glance which isn't bad as it can still imobile and WD or at the very last shake something up good. Barbed stranglers ,hich are strength 8 not 7 (or fexs any way), can do more but since they scatter and still have to be centered over the vehicle to hit at strength 8 this is less than reliable but still worth taking for when youget lucky and when those marines get out of there rhinoes. But you cant just rely on your shooting or assaulting to get the job done tyranids are basicly many organisms working as one so play them like there a single organism. Make sure every unti has back up[ of some sort from another unit and always over lap synapse.

I beat a similar list at last years ardboys with my zilla nids + genestealers and raveners list.

5th changes things a bit as Dreadnaughts are slightly harder to kill with the glance unable to kill on a venom cannon. Before even with Venerable dreads poped pretty easily with 2 sniper fexs and 3 zoeys in 4th.

I think you should focus on taking out his Rhinos so his other troops have to walk since powerfist and melta is bad for your mcs.

I don't think hormagaunts are worth it at all after you get them the needed strength and init upgrade for a few more points you can have a gene stealer which is much better (toughness 4, rending, +1A etc) and doesn't need synapse.

Don't like Warriors either Dakkafexes do more damage for less points.

... first off are you playing this an Apoc. Game. I ask as its that or your using 2 detachments ... if you're using Apoc. then think about using Mycetic Assualt for your carnifex's and/or Endless Swarm ... ok back to 40k if you're finding hes shooting you're army off the table why not start some of the big units in reserve? leave the units with WON on the board (as they'll come back any way). This give you a safe turn while he move closer to your units. Also many of you're units seem small how about combining them to a single stronger unit?

Wait...Tyranids easily destroy Land Raiders? Since when?

since they have venom.... oh yea... hmm

but then genestealers Rend.. yea...

I guess really only if a carnifex gets into hth...

even a Hive tyrant has a tough time vs the LR in hth...