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I am trying to weigh some pros and cons listed below (and anything I may have forgotten to include) regarding which is ultimately more effective points for points in a 2000+ pt format.

Would it be a Whirlwind, or a Land Raider Prometheus?

Both weapons on the vehicles possess the same Str and AP values

Whirlwind Pros:
It is pretty cheap (more than 3x's cheaper than a Prometheus)
Has indirect fire capability
Great GEQ killer
Has multiple missile options
Causes pinning in 5th ed
Can ignore cover if certain missile is used
Maximum 48" range

Whirlwind Cons:
Fairly low armor value
Once its whirlwind launcher is destroyed, its out of weapons
Cannot be used as a transport
Takes up a Heavy Support slot
Cannot fire if it moves
Minimum 12" range


Prometheus Pros:
Has an extraordinary armor value
Great GEQ killer
High rate of twin linked fire
Takes two weapon destroyed results to make it impotent in ranged capacity
Can be used as a transport
Doesn't take up a slot on the FOC as it is taken as a command squad transport
Can fire if it moves 6" or less
Allows reroll of a reserve roll once per turn
Is an assault vehicle

Prometheus Cons:
Its expensive (points wise and monetarily)
No indirect fire
Doesn't cause pinning
Doesn't ignore cover
Maximum 36" range (42" if moving)


Opinions?

Well as with every part of your army the vehicle you take has to mix well with the rest of your army, and the types of opponents and terrain you expect to deal with. The land raider is smexy cause it soaks up fire for 1-3 turns based on what your opponents anti-armor is like. Also, like you said its twin linked weapons make big weak squads run like hell... which is fun to watch. The whirlwind can lay down a mean field of fire and leave your opponents cowering while you obligingly shoot them of of their misery. Also. If you place it amazingly well. You can use it as bait to lure your opponents into a trap. this is hard to do, as it requires perfect deployment, but i t can be done to devastating effect.

But it really comes down to whether you do assault or shooting more in your army. if your close combat, both are viable options, as the whirlwind can take the place of a anti-infantry devastator squad and using fewer points. While the Land raider can get your troops into action. In shooty armies, the whirlwind is the only way to go. And in all around armies... well i really don't know

Also, the thingy next to your name is really distracting =)

#1 Prometheus pro (as long as we're gonna turn this place into a lil theoryhammer forge) is that it'll give up that kill point a lot harder in those 33% of missions it'll show up in. Kinda like those yo-yo hawks that way: no tasty little morsel to be nibbled up.

However, if you build an army designed strictly around killing power this ought to factor in far less than anything that has all ready been mentioned. IMHO this will remain somewhat of a gamblers strategy by the logic that a good player *ought* to be able to outdo an equally good player with a list better suited to the scenario and similar luck on enough of the important dice.

I'll accept any correction to this if this just too plainly demonstrates I'm on outer space as far as the game is concerned. I've been a bit of a male appendage (hopefully that's colourful enough for the grownups, obscure enough to foil the little kids and just profane enough to inspire revulsion in the pull-ups crowd*) lately, owing to a change of employment status and the fact that I've got about a thousand times more adrenaline in the past few days than in the previous few months or maybe years.

*"Mommy wow...I'm a big kid now!" (and if you're old enough to remember the commercial the point remains proven even more politely IMHO)

...and yes I'm painfully aware of the irony of that reference coming from a grown man.

Whirlwind if you can hide it. As in, behind a building.

Prometheus if you are awesome.

Just an FYI, Whirlwinds can move and fire directly.

One thing about the new codex in case you're not aware:


Whirlwinds don't have to choose which ammo to use each game, instead they can choose everytime they fire.

The Prometheus Land Raider must be an orks second worst nightmare*, lots of useful firepower on a near invulnerable target.

I would still go with the Whirlwind. If both rumours are true - incendiary ammo for all, and ammo switching; its a no brainer.






*After a monolith.

To eliminate a Con of the Whirlwind:
Vehicles carrying ordnance barrage weapons can choose to fire them either directly or as a barrage. So if it moves, it can still fire.

I thought the LRP had s6 ap3 flamers on it's sponsons. Too bad I can't get it. (BA player)

Valhallan42nd wrote:I thought the LRP had s6 ap3 flamers on it's sponsons. Too bad I can't get it. (BA player)

Thats a redeemer. I am talking about the 4 twin linked heavy bolter LR from forgeworld.

Oh, then that's a no brainer. Whirlwinds all the way.

The Prometheus is a Forge World landraider variant. It's got 4 sets of twin linked heavy bolters (2 per sponson) and gives a bonus to reserve rolls.

I had one and I would have fielded it a whole lot more often if I could have. I also have a battery of 3 Whirlwinds. They are really for different purposes and army styles. If the Crusader is a lawnmower for infantry than the Prometheus is a lawnmower without the protective cover and helicopter rotor blades. It's wonderful! It's a Landraider that finally has the firepower to make it deadly to troops and at a useful range.

Swordbreaker wrote:If the Crusader is a lawnmower for infantry than the Prometheus is a lawnmower without the protective cover and helicopter rotor blades.

Hellfury, have you considered the Helios at all? It combines many of the Whirlwind pros(ID fire, Whirlwind firing capabilities) with the Land Raider(AV14, Assault Ramp, Troop carrier). It only has the carrying possibility of a Razorback, but has the ability to change from long range fire support(ether with Lascannons or Whirlwind missile launcher) to loading a small squad to capture/contest an objective mid to late game.

As far as the helios I bet it costs way the hell more points, ( i had never heard of it before just now... Im so out of the loop *sob* ) and it forces you to make tough choices in order to make up the points you spent, which can really mess you up. having a tank that can do everything isn't always a good thing

Platuan4th wrote:Hellfury, have you considered the Helios at all? It combines many of the Whirlwind pros(ID fire, Whirlwind firing capabilities) with the Land Raider(AV14, Assault Ramp, Troop carrier). It only has the carrying possibility of a Razorback, but has the ability to change from long range fire support(ether with Lascannons or Whirlwind missile launcher) to loading a small squad to capture/contest an objective mid to late game.

I have. While I like the addition of the twin linked lascannons along with a whirlwind launcher, I am trying to get a vehicle that has a lot of adaptability, and that means transport capacity means a lot. I have yet to use one in a game though.

Shrike78 wrote:As far as the helios I bet it costs way the hell more points, ( i had never heard of it before just now... Im so out of the loop *sob*) and it forces you to make tough choices in order to make up the points you spent, which can really mess you up.

Actually the helios is 10 points cheaper than a Prometheus. It is a normal landraider except that it can only carry 6 PA or 3 TDA, and and it has a whirlwind effectively replacing the twin HBs.

actually i was comparing the whirlwind and the helios

You dont need a Helios, you just hide the Whirlwind.

Prometheus is a good tank though, while the most expensive (so far and excepting Terminus) it covers the weakness of the stock Land Raider about its confused role.

There is another advantange to the Prometheus, it is not a HS unit, but a transport for an H.Q. unit. Also the wording allows it to be used with any Command Squad, not just a Termie command squad. If you are comparing for a competing HS slot you dont need to you can take both even if you have two other HS. If its a matter of points well, any Land Raider is almost always a questionable use of points.

It still all depends on what kind of army he's fielding HEY HELLFURY! WHAT KIND OF ARMY ARE YOU USING?

My Prometheus was a dream for my BA army (yeah, been that long ago). That freakin thing never once hit less than 11 shots out of 12. I loved it.

Shrike78 wrote:It still all depends on what kind of army he's fielding HEY HELLFURY! WHAT KIND OF ARMY ARE YOU USING?

Mostly Lysanderwing, but that is going to change over to DW soon enough I think. While my army is indeed termie heavy, it is by no means exclusive to termies, which is why I left out what type of army it was to be used for.

I was trying to ascertain the comparisons in generic terms, for any SM army that could take either vehicle, and not just my flavor of army. The army is big enough to be DW and very vanilla at the same time, so my specific use of it is not relevant I don't believe.