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Back during third and early fourth, before the last Marine codex revision, almost all of the marine players in my area would run their HQ choice with the Halo for the 4+ invulnerable save(if they weren't already running a Chaplain). Now that the Storm Shield will give a 3+ invulnerable to all shooting and close combat attacks, will we see it more on characters? I've always had trouble with keeping my Marine characters alive as I find they tend to die too easily in CC against numbers(which is what I mostly see now). So I was thinking something along the lines of Storm Shield and Combi-Weapon, or Storm Bolter would work well. I'm not totally sold on it, but I'm wondering if anyone else is finding that cheap(if they keep the same points cost) 3+ invulnerable save too good to pass up? That is assuming that it can be taken along side a ranged weapon.

I'm sure that the points will have to be going up, but I can see them becomming very prevelent indeed.

Think of the picture of the assault sgt. on the box. Power Fist and Storm Shield..... with the way wound allocation works now under 5th, I think they will be even more valuable! protect that slow special weapon so that it has a chance to land a few blows.

i agree, especially considering that the fist of t.hammer no longer can recieve an extra attack in HtH, might as well take the stormshield. that, and it looks really cool too.

meh, take advantage of these things
i was going to use 5 lightning claws, instead i think hammers and SS will work alot better after reading this
time to chop off some arms lol

I donno. I still like my ICs to strike at Iniative. They usually have a higher one, so why not take advantage of it. I think it will still be PW and BP for most of my ICs and leave the Pfist/hammers to the sarges where there are more wounds to share the love.

not only for thier use, but its a good way to add character to a model, and more army specific iconoraphy

I used to use a lightning claw-SS combo when the urge arose in 3rd to 4th for SM commander [who rarely got played over a chaplain or librarian...], and it worked fine then. I can only imagine it would be better now, if perhaps a little pricey.
With the claw you still strike at Ini. which is nice, and get the re-rolls to wound, which mitigates the fact that, firstly, you are only S4ish, and, secondly, you have one less attack. Nice

Artificer Armour, 3W and a Storm Shield that thing is never going to die. Keep in mind the change to the consolidation rule.

Jayden63 wrote:I donno. I still like my ICs to strike at Iniative. They usually have a higher one, so why not take advantage of it. I think it will still be PW and BP for most of my ICs and leave the Pfist/hammers to the sarges where there are more wounds to share the love.

I dunno myself, seeing as how CC works now in 5th, does high Initiative really matter? You're always going to get most of the numbers of things hitting you back anyway unless you're fighting a small enough squad where the number of kills your character does will actually save you from a few attacks. Though it's going to be really, really hard to save him from the hidden fists now. Perhaps it is better to just take the Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield?

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:I donno. I still like my ICs to strike at Iniative. They usually have a higher one, so why not take advantage of it. I think it will still be PW and BP for most of my ICs and leave the Pfist/hammers to the sarges where there are more wounds to share the love.

I dunno myself, seeing as how CC works now in 5th, does high Initiative really matter? You're always going to get most of the numbers of things hitting you back anyway unless you're fighting a small enough squad where the number of kills your character does will actually save you from a few attacks. Though it's going to be really, really hard to save him from the hidden fists now. Perhaps it is better to just take the Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield?

Anytime you can kill your opponent before he gets to kill you is an advantage. When all that matters now is doing more wounds than the other guy, if I can get my kills and keep him from getting swings thats an advantage. Since IC's still fight as individual units, it could be simple enough to just stick the Pfist onto them. Sure you got a 3+ Inv save, but it only takes one to cause insta-death unless your a named character IC. The IC is going to kill what he is going to kill, regardless of P-fist or not, so why not kill off some scrubs so that they can't fight back and help out your squad.

Jayden63 wrote:

Voodoo Boyz wrote:

Jayden63 wrote:I donno. I still like my ICs to strike at Iniative. They usually have a higher one, so why not take advantage of it. I think it will still be PW and BP for most of my ICs and leave the Pfist/hammers to the sarges where there are more wounds to share the love.

I dunno myself, seeing as how CC works now in 5th, does high Initiative really matter? You're always going to get most of the numbers of things hitting you back anyway unless you're fighting a small enough squad where the number of kills your character does will actually save you from a few attacks. Though it's going to be really, really hard to save him from the hidden fists now. Perhaps it is better to just take the Thunder Hammer + Storm Shield?

Anytime you can kill your opponent before he gets to kill you is an advantage. When all that matters now is doing more wounds than the other guy, if I can get my kills and keep him from getting swings thats an advantage. Since IC's still fight as individual units, it could be simple enough to just stick the Pfist onto them. Sure you got a 3+ Inv save, but it only takes one to cause insta-death unless your a named character IC. The IC is going to kill what he is going to kill, regardless of P-fist or not, so why not kill off some scrubs so that they can't fight back and help out your squad.

I agree, I'd never toss a I1 weapon onto an IC, regardless of the save. I've also been thinking of doing a LC/SS combo as someone said above. I really do think we're going to see a lot of people fielding them once the codex releases.

I definitely agree that for most ICs initiative one weapons are a bad idea but for armies that can bring retinues, ie BT and SW, giving a commander a thunderhammer or chainfist could be very effective.

Am I the only one that thinks that 2+/3++ is a tad... excessive?

No, I'm sure there are a lot of us who think that 2+/3++ is stupid, but thats not the point of this thread.

It will show up because it can show up and will probably be pretty damn cheap.

no no i all so thinks that 2+/3++ is a tad... excessive. all we are going to see is 30 termes with Thunder Hammer Storm Shield.

yorkskargrimironklaw wrote:no no i all so thinks that 2+/3++ is a tad... excessive. all we are going to see is 30 termes with Thunder Hammer Storm Shield.

I doubt you'll see that. Right now that's 1200 points. Even with the new save I'm betting a lot of people stick to Lightning Claws for their terminators. I don't plan on rushing out to switch my Lightning Claws to TH/SS combos. I think you'll see more on characters, or squad leaders(if it remains an option for them). If you're seeing TH/SS termies now, you'll likely be seeing the same ammount after the codex.

I would love to fight against nothing but termies with stormshields and thunder hammers. A roll of a 1 is still a roll of a 1, and termies die in droves to small arms fire with their whopping T4.

Anyone think Pariahs will be a more appealing option after the change?

Burning Star IV wrote:Anyone think Pariahs will be a more appealing option after the change?

IF and it's a big if, an area begins to see a lot of Storm Shield lists I think that Pariahs will still be overpriced, but Necron players may finally have a true use for them.

Storm shields are overpowered now, but for assault termies at least the rule makes sense. Now it is a genuine hard choice what to equip the squad with. Lightning claws are still more useful in my opinion.

I wonder if new storm shields can only be taken with terminator armour. This could be the clincher. If you forfeit your existing 5+I save, and have to take expensive armour and sghield it could be the counter. As is a storm shield on a power armoured character is a no brainer.

The rumours are saying that command squads all models have the option to take one, same with vets. It's a bit more ambiguous as far as character models. I am pretty sure Terminator armor isn't going to be a requirement. And I'm also pretty sure they're still going to be an underpriced invulnerable save.

assault ternminator squads I think should be armed:

2x thunderhammer and storm shield
3x lightning claws

The 'disadvantage' to lightnning claws was that they were so good you got overkill. So you never really needed five anyway.

two thunderhammers gives enough tank smashing swings.

Two storm shield will cover a salvo of Ap2 shooting on average. I.e. marine las/plas war walker with 2x star cannon, starcannon and pulse laser Falcon, IG anti tank squad.

All in all it is pretty much optimised on a 2:3 ratio.

if possible in the new rules, im tempted to take a unit of 5 vets with jump packs, power weps and storm shields, could be amusing

but i take it this is now an illegal unit :(

At least it means the single lighning claw commander now has a purpose. Though ironically the commander boxset doesn't have a storm shield either.

Does a command squad count as a retinue? If so scrap the storm shield and just give your captain a cmd squad since he will count as a squad upgrade and hense cant be singled out .

hmmm after looking at the marine codex there is nothing in there that I can see which makes you attach a captain to a cmd squad, so i guess he does not get the retinue rule.

The thing is, chapter masters/captains come with Iron Halos now. So paying the extra points for the slight increase in save may not be worth losing the attack. Libbys don't come with an invulnerable save, but at 40 points it may not be worth giving them a SS. And of course chaplins and Masters of the Forge don't have the option.

Yea thats exactly what I am doing, termi armour and storm shield on my librarian in my new army. Its pretty expensive pts wise but the GW model is so good!

Even with the stats nerf, MOTA + termi/storm and a force weapon its 3 s6 power weapon attacks on the charge.

but at 40 points it may not be worth giving them a SS

That also includes terminator armor though, so 40 points for 2+/3+ and the ability to DS in with his abilities. Certainly not a bargain but not ott either.

It's a whole helluva lot better than mega armour, let me tell you.

Fear the TH/SS Wolf Lord with a bigger retinue (thank you 12-man drop pod), a Runic Charm, and a Wolf Tooth Necklace.