Special Vehicles Rules

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**Nuclear Mekanik**

Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere or if we're going over old ground for you guys.

Way back when, in my last incarnation as a 40k dude, Jervis released a set of rules through WD that meant you could field any vehicle. Great for Orks as it meant you could field any old contraption. IG guys could field modified/up-gunned Leman Russ's and Chimaeras etc and invent some fluff about them being a variant from their regiment's homeworld or somesuch... Happy dayz... obviously the system worked that if you put a standard vehicle from one of the codexes through it would come out costing more than the codex price, so you pay a points premium for being able to field a modified/scratchbuilt vehicle. Seems fair.

Now that 5th Ed has come along, do the rules still apply or is there any provision for playing non-standard vehicles?

Thanks!
Nat

**onlainari**

I don't think it's a cool rule. I think it's rather silly.

So personally as an opponent I wouldn't let you do it, but there are probably many out there that would.

Of course, it won't be allowed at tournaments.

**Nuclear Mekanik**

Good for you.

I like the fact that people like me who get more out of modifying and scratchbuilding minis than from assembling and painting stock minis get to let our imaginations run riot from time to time and then actually see our vehicles on the battlefield. It just means that when you are playing amongst friends you can come up with points and specs for a vehicle so that it can be included in a battle, rather than a really cool scratchbuild being fielded as a "counts as" model.

Who cares if it's not allowed in tournaments? I have never played in a tournament and quite possibly never will, if I did I certainly wouldn't field a scratchbuild though, just to keep life simple and to reduce the chances of my pride and joy getting damaged in transport. That and the points penalty they cost would mean you'd end up way outgunned or outnumbered against your opponent fielding stock units.

Also, what exactly makes you think it's a stupid rule? If you look at it from an opponent's point of view, it's like free points for you! Ok, so your playing against a guard player and he's fielding a modified Leman Russ which has a non-standard weapons combination so it's being run under the special vehicles rules and points system. It's probably not going to be much more effective than a normal LR, certainly not compared to the massive points penalty he'll be paying... if he'd taken a standard tank he probably could have afforded to include and extra heavy support or elites choice... would you really prefer that?

**Steelmage99**

IMO most people couldn't handle the freedom of VDR. Instead of making a cool conversion and then detemining the rules, most people I ran into would make the most hysterical over-the-top powerbuild and then build the model.
Too many powergaming idiots in this world for VDR, Im afraid.

**Lordhat**

When I first saw the VDR Rules I wrote up a Dreadnought that could move 12" to keep up with my White Scars army. It I believe it had a plasma cannon, and four attacks on the charge, and cost about the same as a Land Raider. I never built it, but I still want to. I don't think it's possible to use the VDR to "powergame"; Even with the added movement attacks, and the hefty price tag, it didn't have any better armor that a regular dread, or even ex. armor, so it's still pretty easy to kill.

**Steelmage99**

Lordhat, you just demonstrated that you didn't understand the written and clearly spelled-out intent of VDR either.

**chromedog**

I quite liked the vdr. It took me back to the grand old days of the Republic, when legions of slaves would toil for months on my vehicle profiles. [Back in RT, many vehicles had randomly generated statistics, and you had to roll on table after table - interminably it seemed sometimes].

I'm a firm believer in the "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD" principle. Reasonable builds using vdr (build the profile to suit the model, not the other way around. And none of this building the model from what you want the profile to say things either) are very possible and in no way game-breaking.

Of course, the players who would often violate the important rules, would often be the ones violating the other rules (Rule#1: No-one likes TFG. Don't BE him.)

**Lordhat**

Steelmage99 wrote:Lordhat, you just demonstrated that you didn't understand the written and clearly spelled-out intent of VDR either.

I understand that VDR is for friendly games, and that none of my friends would have minded if I took 250 points and spent them on a unit that wasn't any more effective than one that was @1/2 the cost.

I Also wrote up a Necron walker that ended up being the same price as the Nightbringer.... the points are prohibitive towards true powergaming.

I realize the idea is to build a 'cool model' THEN design the rules for it.... but I also think they are a way for you and your friends to design that one thing you wish your army had, then field it at a ridiculously overpriced cost. As long as nobody minds, and you don't cheat by underpaying for options, then no harm no foul, yes?

**Mick A**

I rang GW about the VDR when we started a league in the local club last year, I was told then that they were no longer applicable to the current rules... As that was 4th edition it would be unlikely they will apply to 5th edition which is a shame as I like converting and scratch building vehicles

Mind you if its a friendly game and your opponent doesn't mind...
Mick

**chromedog**

Even though few of the vehicle point costs have changed all that much since 3rd ed. Case in point. All the IG superheavies that had FW rules based from the VDR are still the same points cost.

Except for SM rhinos and drop pods and speeders which keep getting cheaper. Give it two more editions and SM armies will have rhinos, drop pods and speeders for free, if you first buy the minimum # of troops + HQ.

Reasonable gamers won't object to VDR. Powergaming noobs who don't understand the underlying principles will, but they are also the players you can happily ignore.
By reasonable, I'm talking the ones who alternate rolling dice and moving toy soldiers while their other hand is holding a beer. Y'know, the 'grown-ups' who no longer have to 'win at all costs' to prove something.

**sourclams**

Preferring to win a competitive hobby doesn't mean that you're a powergaming noob.

Likewise showing up with an auto-losing list doesn't mean that you're a "reasonable" gamer and therefore occupy moral high ground.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Clams, that's going in my sig!

I would let people use the VDR rules, because everything is majorly over-costed. Build a Rhino using those rules and you'll see what I mean.

**chromedog**

My comment on powergaming noobs was to do with the idea that vdr wasn't concieved as a uber-leet game winning tool. Something the powergaming noobs forgot to read - or ignored.

Sometimes you play games just to play. The underlying rule for vdr was that they weren't to be used for designing a template that you then built a mdoel for - it was for taking a model you already had and creating a profile for it.

**Platuan4th**

chromedog wrote:My comment on powergaming noobs was to do with the idea that vdr wasn't concieved as a uber-leet game winning tool. Something the powergaming noobs forgot to read - or ignored.

Sometimes you play games just to play. The underlying rule for vdr was that they weren't to be used for designing a template that you then built a mdoel for - it was for taking a model you already had and creating a profile for it.

Did we read the same article? I don't get the gist of what your saying in the article at all, I see an article with rules for designing vehicles. There's no caveat for designing models for vehicles then rules or vice versa. There's no "underlying rule" in VDR, VDR is just that Vehicle DESIGN Rules, whether rules or models come first doesn't matter. In fact, the vast majority of the models displayed in the article by staffers had their rules done in VDR BEFORE they were modeled according to the article. So get down of your high horse about a set of rules that aren't even VALID anymore.

**chromedog**

I quite like the view from up here, thank you.

I'm kinda glad I don't live in your part of the world then.

**Ibelikeflea**

i dont see what the big deal is... if your opponent has no problem with your custom vehicle, then use it. if your opponent has a problem with your custom vehicle, dont use it. After all, it's just a game.

**JD21290**

i love it, i have no problems playing against someone using this, if you want to make it super killy, the points are super high.
it adds fun to he game and some great conversions.

and a quick tip, high people are dangerous at times, a high horse, that just takes the piss.
needs a D.N.R slapped on it

(do not ride)

**KInG**

Hi, 1st time poster and therefore maybe posting something you guys have access to either here or somehere else I haven't seen but the VDR is something I use alot, being a keen model maker. It is hosted on a site I use alot here

Don't forget you need to use it in conjunction with chapter approved 2004 which there's a link to on the page.

In my collection I have a 3 barrelled Basilisk that fires a barrage of templates. It's expensive, but gives me great satisfaction when I use it. My friend I play against is like minded, so we don't mind using these crazy models.