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I'm thinking about playing an Armored Company at the 'ard Boyz tourney. 2 Daemonhunter & 1 Witchhunter IST squads for claiming objectives. Inquisitor for psychic and deepstriking defense. I'm expecting a lot of Tyranid/Ork hordes so I added the Hellhounds, though I'm tempted to replace them with another Demolisher.


HQ: Command Tank (1#, 330 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Vanquisher (IA)
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Improved Comms; Coaxial Storm Bolter; Vanquisher Battle Cannon; Lascannon

HQ: Inquisitor Lord (4#, 85 Pts)
1 Inquisitor Lord [OM]
Bolt Pistol (x1); Close combat weapon (x1); Psychic Hood
1 Mystic [OM]
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Mystic [OM]
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Mystic [OM]
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon

Elite: Tank Ace (1#, 280 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Anti-tank Rounds; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Lascannon

Elite: Tank Ace (1#, 280 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Anti-tank Rounds; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Lascannon

Troops: Tank Unit (1#, 185 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Ace Sponson Gunner; Skills - Evasive Driving; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Lascannon; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Troops: Tank Unit (1#, 185 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Ace Sponson Gunner; Skills - Evasive Driving; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Lascannon; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support: Support Tank (1#, 218 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Demolisher
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon

Heavy Support: Support Tank (1#, 218 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Demolisher
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon

Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (9#, 153 Pts)
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [OM]
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x6); Mount in Rhino; Plasmagun (x2); Targeter
1 Rhino [OM]
Storm Bolter; Smoke Launchers

Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (9#, 153 Pts)
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [OM]
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x6); Mount in Rhino; Plasmagun (x2); Targeter
1 Rhino [OM]
Storm Bolter; Smoke Launchers

Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (9#, 153 Pts)
8 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [WH]
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x6); Mount in Rhino; Meltagun (x2); Targeter
1 Rhino [WH]
Storm Bolter; Smoke Launchers

Fast Attack: Reconnaissance Section (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Hellhound
Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Inferno Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

Fast Attack: Reconnaissance Section (1#, 130 Pts)
1 Hellhound
Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Inferno Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter

Doctrines:
Anti-Tank Rounds
Evasive Driving
Ace Gunner
Ace Sponson Gunners
Allow Vanquishers

Total Roster Cost: 2500

i'm not sure that an Armored Co. can have allies. anybody have a reference?

If you can't use allies, then get an armored fist squad, also... STAY AWAY FROM MY BEAUTIFUL SPACE MARINES YOU PIE PLATE HAPPY PUNK!!!

Yes you can have allies for AC. For 'Ard Boyz at least. I'd give all of the storm troopers meltas. Seems like you have enough anti-infantry from the tanks but not enough anti-tank.

I dunno, I think the AT rounds on the HQ and aces is pretty good anti tank.

I'd check on being able to use the vanquisher though. I'm not sure if IA stuff is useable at ard boyz.

You guys always answer posts without even reading the list for the army which is available for free online?

1) Allies are legal, both in the ard boyz rules and in the DH and WH codexs, they may be taken as allies for any IG company, be it steel legion, catachan, etc.

2) Vanquishers are in the AC army list. And to forego other questions, griffons, exterminators, conquerors, and tank hunter laser destroyers are as well.

3) I know targeters are cheap, but if you're playing in ard boyz you should at least be able to guesstimate the range on your kasrkin within an inch or two at a maximum distance of 24 inches. Not many points, but no reason to pay for them.

4) Why 8 kasrkin? 5 does the same thing for 30 points less. If you end up outside your transport, the three extra bodies arent going to help you one bit against the big uglies you'll see at ard boyz.

5) 2 mystics gives you the anti-deepstrike safety and lets you pass the shots to another friendly unit within 12 inches. The third mystic does nothing at all.

6) Keep in mind that although hull mounted lascannons may seem good, and sponson guns may seem good, they're wasted points 99% of the time, as you'll always chose to fire the big-honkin ordnance gun over them, and only fire them if you've lost the big gun. Thats alot of points across your army for one result on the damage table.

7) If you're going to take ace sponson gunners in order to defend against close combat attacks (and you dont feel paying for evasive driving is enough) then take heavy flamers, a much better option to roast incoming attackers than a heavy bolter.

8) Keep in mind evasive driving only works if you've remained moving. You have this on the same tank as the anti-tank rounds, which can only be fired if you remain stationary. Just something to keep in mind, if you want AT rounds, pay for vanquishers on your tank ace's and let them stay mobile (the vanquisher can fire its AT mode while mobile, as its built for it).

Just some food for though and ways to slim down the list in order to shoehorn in something else thats useful. Other than that, a very valid build for AC ard boyz.

GL bud, I'll be running something relatively similar I've cooked up.

targetawg wrote:3) I know targeters are cheap, but if you're playing in ard boyz you should at least be able to guesstimate the range on your kasrkin within an inch or two at a maximum distance of 24 inches. Not many points, but no reason to pay for them.

Targeters are included with base cost.

targetawg wrote:4) Why 8 kasrkin? 5 does the same thing for 30 points less. If you end up outside your transport, the three extra bodies arent going to help you one bit against the big uglies you'll see at ard boyz.

Very good point, and I'll definitely make that revision.

targetawg wrote:5) 2 mystics gives you the anti-deepstrike safety and lets you pass the shots to another friendly unit within 12 inches. The third mystic does nothing at all.

The Inquisitor Lord requires 3 henchmen, and Mystics (along with Familiars) are the cheapest. The redundancy is just a ::cough:: bonus.

targetawg wrote:7) If you're going to take ace sponson gunners in order to defend against close combat attacks (and you dont feel paying for evasive driving is enough) then take heavy flamers, a much better option to roast incoming attackers than a heavy bolter.

Interesting thought... I guess my concern is that if the attacks are at I10, then the attackers will be close up against the hull, which I'm imagining it would be difficult to place the flamer template... but I do have some Baneblade flamer bits... could be worth a look.

targetawg wrote:8) Keep in mind evasive driving only works if you've remained moving. You have this on the same tank as the anti-tank rounds, which can only be fired if you remain stationary. Just something to keep in mind, if you want AT rounds, pay for vanquishers on your tank ace's and let them stay mobile (the vanquisher can fire its AT mode while mobile, as its built for it).

Another good point. As I only have the 1 Vanquisher turret, I'll likely drop Evasive Driving from the aces, and keep them in formation where they are not easily assaulted.

targetawg wrote:Just some food for though and ways to slim down the list in order to shoehorn in something else thats useful. Other than that, a very valid build for AC ard boyz.

GL bud, I'll be running something relatively similar I've cooked up.

Thanks targetawg, I appreciate the feedback, I'll be putting it to use and revising the list. I'll post it here when complete.

Cheers

"1) Allies are legal, both in the ard boyz rules and in the DH and WH codexs, they may be taken as allies for any IG company, be it steel legion, catachan, etc."

i've never seen an Armored Co. list entry that allows Allies. sure DH and WH can have allies. so can standard IG. but Armored Co. isn't standard IG.

The 'Ard Boyz rule packet from the GW website is pretty clear that IG armies can take allies, and that an Armored Company is a legal IG army.

alarmingrick wrote:"1) Allies are legal, both in the ard boyz rules and in the DH and WH codexs, they may be taken as allies for any IG company, be it steel legion, catachan, etc."

i've never seen an Armored Co. list entry that allows Allies. sure DH and WH can have allies. so can standard IG. but Armored Co. isn't standard IG.

There isnt an entry in the AC codex, as it doesnt have that official/well thought out of a codex, from the DH codex though:

In the "Using Daemonhunters as Allies" Box

"Daemonhunters units can be included as allies in any of the following codex armies:

etc etc

Imperial Guard and its variants such as catach Jungle Fighters, Armageddon Steel Legion

I read that as saying that since AC is a variant of the IG dex (the AC list refers to the IG dex in many cases, as would be expected) it would be legal to use the DH allis.

To Uber:

Yea, I forgot targeters were included in base points, my mistake


Ah, i forgot about his requirement as my INQ lord uses a couple warriors (one with melta one with plasma) in addition to the 2 mystics in order to help the demolishers handle the 2+ saves I may see at my shop, whoopsies

As far as CC goes, it all depends on where they approach from/how close they were to how much they can scrunch against the hull. But, that in mind, HB with a forward firing arc would have the same issues, at least a flamer can lie flat against the hull and possibly scrape out more wounds. I think you'll find your opponents don't think of this and don't place their attackers properly the first time it comes up, and you'll flame quite a few. In my list I don't use ace sponson gunners just because points are tight and I'm relying on evasive driving more heavily.

An easy way to convert vanquishers (if you wanted to) is just a barrel swap. Gale force 9 sells a plasticard accessory pack (available through the warstore for 10.79) which has 7 or 8 different sizes of plasticard tubing that fit inside of each other, perfect for scratch building a barrel, its what I'll be doing (I have 1 command vanq and 1 tank ace vanq).



Another way to save points:

Also keep in mind the elite choice inquisitor (since you have a slot open) does the same thing that the HQ does, for 25 points less and no retinue size requirement, if you just wanted a really cheap inquisitor, he'd save you 30 points or so.

targetawg wrote:To Uber:

Yea, I forgot targeters were included in base points, my mistake

Ah, i forgot about his requirement as my INQ lord uses a couple warriors (one with melta one with plasma) in addition to the 2 mystics in order to help the demolishers handle the 2+ saves I may see at my shop, whoopsies

As far as CC goes, it all depends on where they approach from/how close they were to how much they can scrunch against the hull. But, that in mind, HB with a forward firing arc would have the same issues, at least a flamer can lie flat against the hull and possibly scrape out more wounds. I think you'll find your opponents don't think of this and don't place their attackers properly the first time it comes up, and you'll flame quite a few. In my list I don't use ace sponson gunners just because points are tight and I'm relying on evasive driving more heavily.

An easy way to convert vanquishers (if you wanted to) is just a barrel swap. Gale force 9 sells a plasticard accessory pack (available through the warstore for 10.79) which has 7 or 8 different sizes of plasticard tubing that fit inside of each other, perfect for scratch building a barrel, its what I'll be doing (I have 1 command vanq and 1 tank ace vanq).

Another way to save points:

Also keep in mind the elite choice inquisitor (since you have a slot open) does the same thing that the HQ does, for 25 points less and no retinue size requirement, if you just wanted a really cheap inquisitor, he'd save you 30 points or so.

I thought about using the elite inquisitor, but I believe I'm going to need some decent psychic hood support at my local tourney, and so I need the LD10 of the Lord.

Thanks for the tip on GF9 plasticard, I'll look into that. I saw another good conversion idea for a Vanquisher when someone added the Baneblade Hellhammer cannon on the end of a LR barrel... looked pretty good, so I thought I might do that. I have one from my Baneblade kit, so I'm looking to get another (including a post in the Dakka swap forum).

The heavy flamer sponson idea bears more thought, but it may come down simply to the fact that I have HB's currently modeled, and not enough time to make the swap.

Anyway, here's my list ver 2.0

HQ: Command Tank (1#, 330 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Vanquisher (IA)
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Improved Comms; Coaxial Storm Bolter; Vanquisher Battle Cannon; Lascannon

HQ: Inquisitor Lord (4#, 85 Pts)
1 Inquisitor Lord [OM] @ 85 Pts
Bolt Pistol (x1); Close combat weapon (x1); Psychic Hood
1 Mystic [OM] @ [6] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Mystic [OM] @ [6] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
1 Mystic [OM] @ [6] Pts
Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon

Elite: Tank Ace (1#, 295 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Vanquisher (IA)
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Coaxial Storm Bolter; Vanquisher Battle Cannon; Lascannon

Elite: Tank Ace (1#, 295 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Vanquisher (IA
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Coaxial Storm Bolter; Vanquisher Battle Cannon; Lascannon

Troops: Tank Unit (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Evasive Driving; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Lascannon; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Troops: Tank Unit (1#, 175 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Evasive Driving; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Lascannon; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Troops: Tank Unit (1#, 165 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Battle Tank
Skills - Evasive Driving; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support: Support Tank (1#, 183 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Demolisher
Skills - Ace Sponson Gunner; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Hull Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter

Heavy Support: Support Tank (1#, 218 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Demolisher
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon

Heavy Support: Support Tank (1#, 218 Pts)
1 Leman Russ Demolisher
Skills - Ace Gunners; Skills - Evasive Driving; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Hull Lascannon; Sponson Plasma Cannon

Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (6#, 120 Pts)
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [OM]
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x3); Mount in Rhino; Plasmagun (x2); Targeter
1 Rhino [OM]
Storm Bolter

Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (6#, 120 Pts)
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [OM]
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x3); Mount in Rhino; Plasmagun (x2); Targeter
1 Rhino [OM]
Storm Bolter

Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (6#, 120 Pts)
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [WH]
Frag Grenades; Hellgun (x3); Mount in Rhino; Meltagun (x2); Targeter
1 Rhino [WH]
Storm Bolter

Total Roster Cost: 2499

alarmingrick wrote:"1) Allies are legal, both in the ard boyz rules and in the DH and WH codexs, they may be taken as allies for any IG company, be it steel legion, catachan, etc."

i've never seen an Armored Co. list entry that allows Allies. sure DH and WH can have allies. so can standard IG. but Armored Co. isn't standard IG.

I've never seen any Non-Inquisition list entry that shows what allies it allows, however that doesn't mean that my Last Chancers(non standard IG) can't take them, or that my Blood Angels or Crimson Fists can't. It's all made moot by the specific allowance for the 'Ard Boyz tournament anyway, but even if it wasn't, your argument of never seeing an AC list entry allowing allies doesn't hold much water cause I can't point to where in my Space Marine or IG codex it allows me allies yet it's commonly accepted that I am because of the entry in the DH/WH codex.

Screw the Stormies.

Take more tanks, show up with no infantry whatsoever, and don't complain when you lose every game by default.

Do it as a protest army against the 5th Ed mission structure. Use it to show them that an Armoured Company can't win unless it takes something other than tanks, which, of course, defeats the purpose of taking an armoured company.

They might eve make a concession for you (and future AC players), allowing tanks taken as troops to score in an AC army.

BYE

So your idea is to give advice that wasn't asked for, isnt useful, and would cause him to forfeit the tournament and prove nothing but that you don't like change?

5th edition is a new edition, with every edition change, armies come and go. Thats half the fun of it, as much as we all complain, if the game stayed stagnant and never changed we'd all of stopped playing by now as it would have ceased to be challenging long ago.

And for the record, Armoured companies field armored fist squads, tanks with troops inside. Fielding a couple rhino's or chimera's with stormtroopers inside is nothing more than changing from fast attack slots to troop slots.

"your argument of never seeing an AC list entry allowing allies doesn't hold much water cause I can't point to where in my Space Marine or IG codex it allows me allies yet it's commonly accepted that I am because of the entry in the DH/WH codex. "

your right. show me where it says you can take them then.


"Daemonhunters units can be included as allies in any of the following codex armies:

etc etc

Imperial Guard and its variants such as catach Jungle Fighters, Armageddon Steel Legion

I read that as saying that since AC is a variant of the IG dex (the AC list refers to the IG dex in many cases, as would be expected) it would be legal to use the DH allis. "

you read it as saying that, but it doesn't say Armored co.

maybe, in 4th ed. anyway, they thought it was too strong of a list to include allies. yes i'm expressing an opinion not a fact. not 1 AC list that i've seen ever says it can take allies anywhere. if you've seen otherwise, please point it out to me.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Screw the Stormies.

Take more tanks, show up with no infantry whatsoever, and don't complain when you lose every game by default.

Do it as a protest army against the 5th Ed mission structure. Use it to show them that an Armoured Company can't win unless it takes something other than tanks, which, of course, defeats the purpose of taking an armoured company.

They might eve make a concession for you (and future AC players), allowing tanks taken as troops to score in an AC army.

BYE

I was with you, ready to make a stand my brother... until you said don't complain. Playing 40k and not complaining is like playing in the NFL and not doing an outrageous dance for any minor accomplishment. It ain't natural.

targetawg wrote:So your idea is to give advice that wasn't asked for, isnt useful, and would cause him to forfeit the tournament and prove nothing but that you don't like change?

I think he was being facetious. If he was serious he would have advised me to paint anti-Codex: CSM slogans on my tanks. (ZING!!)

alarmingrick: You can download the 'ard Boyz rules here. As it's been stated in this thread, it's pretty clear that the rules packet indicates that, for 'ard Boyz anyway, any valid IG list can take Inquisition allies, that Armored Companies are a valid IG list, and therefore Armored Companies can take Inquisition allies.

alarmingrick wrote:"your argument of never seeing an AC list entry allowing allies doesn't hold much water cause I can't point to where in my Space Marine or IG codex it allows me allies yet it's commonly accepted that I am because of the entry in the DH/WH codex. "

your right. show me where it says you can take them then.


"Daemonhunters units can be included as allies in any of the following codex armies:

etc etc

Imperial Guard and its variants such as catach Jungle Fighters, Armageddon Steel Legion

I read that as saying that since AC is a variant of the IG dex (the AC list refers to the IG dex in many cases, as would be expected) it would be legal to use the DH allis. "

you read it as saying that, but it doesn't say Armored co.

maybe, in 4th ed. anyway, they thought it was too strong of a list to include allies. yes i'm expressing an opinion not a fact. not 1 AC list that i've seen ever says it can take allies anywhere. if you've seen otherwise, please point it out to me.

So your point was to repeat and agree with my point? Using your "logic" which I refer to it as that for lack of a better, or non insulting word, no one outside of Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters would be allowed allies. As this is clearly not the case, my original point stands. Your argument holds no weight, which you admitted above since your arguing opinion and not fact, which is kind of pointless as we're talking rules.

As to the list, I like the improvements made in the second one. I'm doubting you're going to see enough anti tank to take out everything before you can inflict some serious hurt. It depends on your metagame though, what's popular in your area?

I'm expecting to see more than one Tyranid and Ork list, which actually was the reason I decided to scrap my Mech Eldar list in favor of AC. I've heard rumor of a possible 6-Land Raider Chaos list, and expect a Tau list or two (though more likely Battlesuit lists as opposed to Mech Tau). I've also seen some Chaos Daemons played locally lately.

To sum up, less MEQ and more horde.

'm expecting to see more than one Tyranid and Ork list

You have a gift for understatement, sir