GW craters and True LOS

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**Spellbound**

Are the GW craters even deep enough to actually give cover saves to anything in them? They don't seem like it, particularly for larger infantry like terminators or wraithguard. Anyone had any experience with them?

**Harkainos**

iirc - those craters would fall under 'area terrain' and grant a cover while you are in it.

But, I have been wrong... many many many times.

**Anaxagoras**

The easiest thing to do is treat craters as area terrain.

**coredump**

Those craters are not, necessarily, area terrain. They are whatever you want them to be. You want to call them AT, fine, you want WYSIWYG, fine.

**Maxus**

pg 21 in the rulebook states cover types and what cover save you get for said types.

more importantly on the same page "before deploying their armies, it is a very good idea for players to go through all the terrain pieces on the battlefield quickly and agree what kind of cover each will offer."

In the case of the GW craters, point and say, lets make that difficult terrain, and give it a 4+ cover save. Or, point and say, not difficult terrain, but lets give it a 5+ cover save to models within it.

that is the best way to decide, and allows some flexibility for your game.

-M

**sheridan**

most of the time craters only give a 5+ cover save and are difficult terrain. However I have seen people do 4+ cover saves for vehicles that are fairly large (land raider/superheavy). But RAW they are difficult and a 5+ cover.

**Maxus**

sheridan wrote:most of the time craters only give a 5+ cover save and are difficult terrain. However I have seen people do 4+ cover saves for vehicles that are fairly large (land raider/superheavy). But RAW they are difficult and a 5+ cover.

According to the Cover Chart on pg 21, 5th edition rulebook, Craters fall in the 4+ cover save.

Vehicles are not treated like infantry, 50% of the facing of the vehicle needs to be obscured by intervening terrain or models, and they are not obscured simply for being inside area terrain. So if the vehicle is in a crater, and the firing model can see more than 50% of the facing, that vehicle would not get a cover save (pg 62, 5th ed rulebook)

General rule of thumb, for non-vehicles, if something gives cover, and its not, razor wire, wire mesh, high grass, crops, bushes, hedges, fences, or fortifications, its going to give a 4+ cover save.

Also another reason why you agree with your opponent what gives what cover save before table edges and deployment are decided.

-M

**Lordhat**

I believe Sheridan was talking about craters left behind by exploding vehicles, not vehicles getting cover from craters.

**Spellbound**

Well alright. I was just wondering because the craters on all the GW pictures look like deep, high-walled craters and they're supposedly the ones from the package - but the packages look like they're really small!

**Maxus**

Lordhat wrote:I believe Sheridan was talking about craters left behind by exploding vehicles, not vehicles getting cover from craters.

well i did reread it, and your right, i don't think he was talking about vehicles getting cover from craters, but not sure if he was talking about craters left by exploding vehicles either, but you are correct Lordhat he could have been.

I say I'm not sure, because you do get a 4+ cover save from being behind a vehicle, and the poster didn't say, crater left by exploding vehicle, or even exploding vehicle.

-M

**Phoenix**

Craters are one of those things that are nearly impossible to model in a dynamic way. You can either dig a hole into your game table and have a perminant creator there or you can bring along ones that you place on top. The ones that get placed on top tend to be rather shallow (so they sort of look right) but that runs into problems with true line of sight. Most people I run into just play them as area terrain. This means that they are not of any help to vehicles.